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  • Joshecalpoly
    replied
    Originally posted by soloking View Post
    If your going to compare Cutler and Orton do it right and compare Cutler as a Bear to Orton as a Bear. Then compare Orton as a Bronco to Cutler as a Bronco. People keep saying that Orton was better this year(and he was) but he was playing with much better offenseive players!!!!!!!!!!!

    Broncos
    Cutler
    Year Team G QBRat Comp Att Pct Yds Y/G Y/A TD Int
    2008 Denver 16 86.0 384 616 62.3 4526 282.9 7.3 25 18

    Orton
    Year Team G QBRat Comp Att Pct Yds Y/G Y/A TD Int
    2009 Denver 16 86.8 336 541 62.1 3802 237.6 7.0 21 12


    Bears
    Cutler
    Year Team G QBRat Comp Att Pct Yds Y/G Y/A TD Int
    2009 Chicago 16 76.8 336 555 60.5 3666 229.1 6.6 27 26

    Orton
    Year Team G QBRat Comp Att Pct Yds Y/G Y/A TD Int
    2008 Chicago 15 79.6 272 465 58.5 2972 198.1 6.4 18 12
    Orton still looks better wit his fewer INT and his better rating Pct. is surprisingly similar though. Interceptions are important because you win or lose games based on turnovers. No matter how good you are you cant overcome that stat. Its amazing Orton through 100 passes less and only 700 yards less.

    Leave a comment:


  • soloking
    replied
    If your going to compare Cutler and Orton do it right and compare Cutler as a Bear to Orton as a Bear. Then compare Orton as a Bronco to Cutler as a Bronco. People keep saying that Orton was better this year(and he was) but he was playing with much better offenseive players!!!!!!!!!!!

    Broncos
    Cutler
    Year Team G QBRat Comp Att Pct Yds Y/G Y/A TD Int
    2008 Denver 16 86.0 384 616 62.3 4526 282.9 7.3 25 18

    Orton
    Year Team G QBRat Comp Att Pct Yds Y/G Y/A TD Int
    2009 Denver 16 86.8 336 541 62.1 3802 237.6 7.0 21 12


    Bears
    Cutler
    Year Team G QBRat Comp Att Pct Yds Y/G Y/A TD Int
    2009 Chicago 16 76.8 336 555 60.5 3666 229.1 6.6 27 26

    Orton
    Year Team G QBRat Comp Att Pct Yds Y/G Y/A TD Int
    2008 Chicago 15 79.6 272 465 58.5 2972 198.1 6.4 18 12

    Leave a comment:


  • lolcopter
    replied
    Originally posted by AC1 View Post
    So if you'd care to elaborate why your opinion, gained on extremely limited evidence, of someone's leadership skills ought to be valued over that of someone who has coached him or played alongside him for multiple seasons, your argument might hold some water.
    because this is a message board, and last i checked nearly everything posted here is opinion. including whether you think person X's opinion should be held higher than person Y's. mike martz, his new offensive coordinator questioned cutler's leadership when he said, "He just doesn't get it. He doesn't understand that he represents a great head coach and the rest of those players on that team. Somebody needs to talk to him."

    "I thought he looked completely immature," said Mora, the former New Orleans Saints and Indianapolis Colts coach. "He acted like he didn't even care."
    source


    also, I HAVE EYES. i've watched cutler for the past three seasons as a bronco. he is a whiny diva who is always by himself on the sidelines. he is does not exhibit any characteristics of A LEADER IN MY OPINION

    so yeah, i'm entitled to my opinion just as much as you are. but if you want to go ahead and attack me personally, or my amount of knowledge, instead of my content of my message, have at it...
    Last edited by lolcopter; 04-19-2010, 11:06 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • DishWater
    replied
    Originally posted by TH3JUICEMAN View Post
    How can you believe that? Does Cutler have a stronger arm? yes, is he a better QB? NO!

    26 picks is laughable, he went from being in the ProBowl to being the laughing stock of the NFL. Can anybody say Derick Anderson V.2?
    I like the Jeff George analogy, myself.

    Leave a comment:


  • TH3JUICEMAN
    replied
    Originally posted by B Real 15 View Post
    Yea he did throw 26 picks but he is still a better QB than a Kyle Orton.
    How can you believe that? Does Cutler have a stronger arm? yes, is he a better QB? NO!

    26 picks is laughable, he went from being in the ProBowl to being the laughing stock of the NFL. Can anybody say Derick Anderson V.2?

    Leave a comment:


  • DishWater
    replied
    Originally posted by B Real 15 View Post
    I see you still didn't answer the question dish but we can agree to disagree.:go:
    I choose neither.

    Eli had, without a doubt, the best defense in the league, who singlehandedly put Eli anywhere near a position in which he could, given his limited skills, make any sort of play, only to be saved by one of the most miraculous catches in NFL and SB history.

    Leave a comment:


  • AC1
    replied
    Originally posted by lolcopter View Post
    ad hominem attacks aren't exactly helping your case
    My post would have been an ad hominem attack if what I was responding to was an argument independent on your own credibility. When you say "of course X has questionable leadership skills", you're making your evaluation of the leadership skills of QBs part of (and the basis of) your argument.

    So if you'd care to elaborate why your opinion, gained on extremely limited evidence, of someone's leadership skills ought to be valued over that of someone who has coached him or played alongside him for multiple seasons, your argument might hold some water.

    Leave a comment:


  • B Real 15
    replied
    Originally posted by DishWater View Post
    Just as you believe Jay Cutler is good in any sense of the term, I believe he is highly overrated.

    I don't like Kyle either, but read over your last post a little more closely.

    Waldo (or your own double standard) is hiding somewhere in there.
    I see you still didn't answer the question dish but we can agree to disagree.:go:

    Leave a comment:


  • DishWater
    replied
    Originally posted by B Real 15 View Post
    Hmm......overrated by who? Oh by you and Eli has a Super Bowl ring as well, just thought I would throw that in there. Would you rather have Eli or Kyle Orton and really think about that for a second?
    Just as you believe Jay Cutler is good in any sense of the term, I believe he is highly overrated.

    I don't like Kyle either, but read over your last post a little more closely.

    Waldo (or your own double standard) is hiding somewhere in there.

    Leave a comment:


  • B Real 15
    replied
    Originally posted by DishWater
    Cutler is the most overrated QB in the league, distantly followed by Eli Manning.

    Your own unconscious hypocrisy is amusing.
    Hmm......overrated by who? Oh by you and Eli has a Super Bowl ring as well, just thought I would throw that in there. Would you rather have Eli or Kyle Orton and really think about that for a second?

    Leave a comment:


  • soloking
    replied
    Originally posted by B Real 15 View Post
    Yea he did throw 26 picks but he is still a better QB than a Kyle Orton. I understand that we want to be loyal Bronco fans and root for who we have now but lets B Real here. When people criticize McD, people say that he brought in a new system and that there are going to be growing pains. When people say Orton sucks.....people say it was a new system and his 1st year in it. When people talk about Cutler they just say he sucks and its laughable IMO. He was also part of a new system and it was his 1st year in it so doesn't he deserve another year just like alot of us want to give Orton before we start crucifying him? So many double standards going on around here is it sick.
    Way to B real B real! Good post

    Leave a comment:


  • B Real 15
    replied
    Originally posted by KnockoutOrton8 View Post
    :clap: There you go man! People forget the NFL is a business and moves like this have to happen.

    But RunYouOver, aren't you going to miss that big armed "franchise" QB and his 26 ints?
    Yea he did throw 26 picks but he is still a better QB than a Kyle Orton. I understand that we want to be loyal Bronco fans and root for who we have now but lets B Real here. When people criticize McD, people say that he brought in a new system and that there are going to be growing pains. When people say Orton sucks.....people say it was a new system and his 1st year in it. When people talk about Cutler they just say he sucks and its laughable IMO. He was also part of a new system and it was his 1st year in it so doesn't he deserve another year just like alot of us want to give Orton before we start crucifying him? So many double standards going on around here is it sick.

    Leave a comment:


  • bahn
    replied
    Originally posted by soloking View Post
    A. Cutler would have had a better then Orton if he would have stayed on the team but we didn't get to find out because Josh tried to trade him behind his back. Josh should have kept him for a least a year to see what they could do together. The picks we got for him were wasted.

    B. He would have been fine playing for Denver if we would have payed him what he was worth. Just like any other player. He was our best player. without him we go 5-11 last year. Maybe we should actually pay our good players. Most teams do.

    C. and D. dont really care about those 2.
    I think this falls more on Bowlen. Its Bowlen who signs the checks. If he says no then theres nothing McD cant do about it

    Originally posted by soloking View Post
    No, my point was not against fans who like Mcdaniels but those who post and call others not real fans all and that nonsense but never post an opinion or say why they support him. Never said I should be the coach. I do think Mcdaniels is a good coach but he is not good with players and personal decisions. Please name a coach that came into a new job and tries to trade the young talented QB behind his back and then the next year trades the best player on the team? If Bill Cowher or some one with that kind of experience came in and did the same I might be able to understand it and stand behind them. Josh on the other hand has not been a head coach at any level so why we do you believe in him so much?? What has he ever done to earn the fans trust???? Please make me a list.

    I hope Josh proves me wrong..I really do, but until then I will question his moves.
    You dont need to really trust him. Just give him a chance/time to succeed. If you would be willing to give Cowher a chance to succeed you should do the same to McD since he is the present coach of your favorite team. I didnt like Cowher when he was in Pitt but i'm willing to support him if he becomes the Broncos HC.

    Do you think that there is a coach out there that can gain the trust of every fan? There will always be dissatisfied fans no matter what.

    Besides any coach would only have to earn the trust of the owner/s and the players/personnel. Their job is to build a winning team. They have their own plans on how to do so. If a coach makes a decision that he thinks will help the team he'll just do it. It wont matter if its a popular decision or not. He's not gonna wait for fans approval on every move he makes.

    If a coach would only do what the fans want, the team would be in big trouble.
    Last edited by bahn; 04-19-2010, 10:19 PM.

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  • soloking
    replied
    Originally posted by RunYouOver View Post
    Exhibit A: Jay Cutler

    He had a terrible year for the Bears and was less productive as a QB than Kyle Orton, the man who was "thrown in" as part of the trade.

    Exhibit B: Brandon Marshall

    We weren't going to sign him after this season anyway, he clearly didn't want to be in Denver, and we still got 2 2nd rounders for him. If you're so sure we're going to be horrible this year, Marshall wouldn't have been the difference to make us serious playoff contenders. Since we would've let him go for NOTHING after this season, I'll gladly take the 2 2nd rounders, and hopefully translate that into a rookie who can contribute this year.

    Exhibit C: Tony Scheffler

    Wasn't playing at all for us last year, still got a draft pick in a very deep draft for him. Would've been cut otherwise, so...

    Exhibit D: Peyton Hillis

    Under used in McDaniels' system, we still managed to get Brady Quinn out of him, someone who still has the potential to thrive as a good QB.

    You see big name players being traded.

    I see the business and strategical logic behind it.
    A. Cutler would have had a better then Orton if he would have stayed on the team but we didn't get to find out because Josh tried to trade him behind his back. Josh should have kept him for a least a year to see what they could do together. The picks we got for him were wasted.

    B. He would have been fine playing for Denver if we would have payed him what he was worth. Just like any other player. He was our best player. without him we go 5-11 last year. Maybe we should actually pay our good players. Most teams do.

    C. and D. dont really care about those 2.

    Leave a comment:


  • soloking
    replied
    Originally posted by bahn View Post
    Do you want us to follow you insted?
    How much coaching experience do you have?
    Have you ever dealt with egotistical players?


    If your an owner of an NFL team, would you let fans that you dont even know and have never even met handle the teams operations?
    No, my point was not against fans who like Mcdaniels but those who post and call others not real fans all and that nonsense but never post an opinion or say why they support him. Never said I should be the coach. I do think Mcdaniels is a good coach but he is not good with players and personal decisions. Please name a coach that came into a new job and tries to trade the young talented QB behind his back and then the next year trades the best player on the team? If Bill Cowher or some one with that kind of experience came in and did the same I might be able to understand it and stand behind them. Josh on the other hand has not been a head coach at any level so why we do you believe in him so much?? What has he ever done to earn the fans trust???? Please make me a list.

    I hope Josh proves me wrong..I really do, but until then I will question his moves.

    Leave a comment:

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