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Educate Me: Pat Bowlen

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  • #61
    Originally posted by McSmashie View Post
    Ok, ok, this HIGHEST PAID argument is giving me a headache. There is one simple reason why you do pay people record money!!!!! with every contract. For every obscenely high priced player, you have to go alot cheaper at several other positions. It doesnt create a balanced team.

    You can build a solid, winning team by putting in good and very good players in all positions than a SUPERSTAR surrounded by scrubs.

    Even without the salary cap, everyone is operating like one is in place. Being smart with contracts allows you to build solid depth.

    Dropping tons of dough on Javon Walker didnt make the Raiders win. Dropping all that coin on Haynesworth didnt help the Skins.
    I'm not disagreeing with that at all.

    I was simply dispelling this myth that the Broncos had an open wallet policy under Mike Shanahan, and that Pat Bowlen isn't afraid to pay a lot of money in free agency.
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    • #62
      Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
      I'm not disagreeing with that at all.

      I was simply dispelling this myth that the Broncos had an open wallet policy under Mike Shanahan, and that Pat Bowlen isn't afraid to pay a lot of money in free agency.
      Part of the issues with Shanny was that he gave ALOT of averaged size toxic contracts to guys that got blown out of Denver after a season or less. It created a MESSY salary cap issue and the Great Purge last season didnt help.

      Guys can get paid in Denver, they just have to be people that Bowlen wants here long term.
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      I adopt andrewmlb.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by mojo0730
        1980's? Boy, I just think you're coming across as a very uninformed, likely very young fan who needs to do some research and come back when you've actually learned some accurate information.
        Haha! Now you're going after a typo, and still haven't acknowledged any of the other points or substantiated your claims about half the crap you spewed.

        Okay, thanks for the admission.

        I'm glad you can catch typos though, and that you can be really annoying rather than being intelligent and credible. I'm sure that will get you far in life.

        Originally posted by McSmashie View Post
        You can build a solid, winning team by putting in good and very good players in all positions than a SUPERSTAR surrounded by scrubs.
        Very accurate. The Patriots have the best win to cost ratio in the NFL. All they did is win three Super Bowls (and attend a fourth).

        The Broncos weren't all that far behind. I'll try to find the article.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Tarquin View Post
          That wasn't Walls? I stand corrected then.

          When I make mistakes I admit it. I also don't try to twist things to fit my argument.

          Can you say the same? Well, sure you can. The better question would be... "Can you say it and mean it?"
          I believe the CB that kept getting beat in the championship game was Foxworth.

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          • #65
            I found the articles I was talking about.

            This one was written in June of 2009:

            Code:
            Team 	           Wins     Committed Cash 	Cost Per Win
            1.) Patriots 	63 	     512.31M 	          8.14 M
            2.) Colts  	63 	     532.77 M 	          8.44 M
            3.) Chargers 	54 	     485.46 M 	          8.99 M
            4.) Steelers 	56 	     516.69 M 	          9.22 M
            5.) Broncos 	47 	     485.40 M 	         10.37 M
            Here's another article from this year:

            The top five spending teams in the NFL and their payrolls are:

            * New York Giants, $138.4 million
            * Houston Texans, $128.3 million
            * Miami Dolphins, $126.9 million
            * New Orleans Saints, $121.6 million
            * Chicago Bears, $120.7 million

            Of these teams, only the Super Bowl winning Saints made the playoffs.

            The bottom five teams as far as payrolls go are:

            * Kansas City Chiefs, $81.8 million
            * Tampa Bay Buccaneers, $84.6 million
            * Seattle Seahawks, $89.1 million
            * Dallas Cowboys, $90.3 million
            * Cincinnati Bengals, $93.8 million

            On this list were the division winning Cowboys and Bengals.
            Spending unwisely doesn't mean you're going to win. It makes it more likely that you'll lose.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by noobius View Post
              I believe the CB that kept getting beat in the championship game was Foxworth.
              Argh. Yeah.

              Come to think of it, that would mean Champ wasn't playing that day at all, wouldn't it?

              Who it is doesn't matter that much though. Mojo said good corner backs are a luxury position. The point is that without them, you get scorched pretty quickly.

              Yes, you need a good CB if you intend to go deep in the playoffs.

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              • #67
                Watch the tone a bit, guys.
                Thanks, Reid!
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                • #68
                  :salute!:
                  Originally posted by stnzed View Post
                  Character has next to nothing to do with it, all teams look passed a players attitude when it comes to building what they hope to be a Championship team, the notion that McDaniels will be any better at building a Championship team with nothing but a bunch of Kyle Orton's than Mike Shanahan was with supposed malcontents is absolutely laughable. Every team has character issues, the Broncos are no different.

                  Character is just a cliche that people throw out there when their favorite team is making incompetent moves that defy common sense, I believe that deep down inside everybody knows that these moves have as much to do with money and a dysfunctional head coach as it has to do with dysfunctional players and DC's.

                  Rod Smith had character issues at one point, for Pete's sake.......
                  Since you monitor football, I'd hazard a guess you've been on a team or two. Character plays into chemistry, which impacts relationships, which impacts everything on a team. Even a salesman learns that often the relationship means more than the product, particularly when the competitor's
                  products are of similar quality.

                  Sure, each team will have guys that need to be reeled in once in awhile, but Shanny in his last few years wasn't even cranking the reel. I say "cut out the cancer" and if in doing so, you create cap room - great.

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                  • #69
                    To quote Sam Parnell regarding the part in bold ...

                    Originally posted by McSmashie View Post
                    I highly doubt it has anything to do with not having money. Part of the reason that Pat dismissed Shanny was the constant stream of character issue players coming through Dove Valley. Pat wanted his Broncos back and that is a team is quality players that the fans could be proud of.

                    Champ got himself a fat contract and it is being paid as we speak. Pat just doesnt want to pay guys that embarass the franchise.

                    I know it is popular opinion on this board that McDaniels alone made the call the trade Cutler and Marshall, but Bowlen is the one making the calls. He has said many times that those decisions go through him and no call is made without his approval. Just because McDaniels is the public face of the franchise doesnt mean that he overrules The Boss.

                    Cutler embarased the franchise in the media last year and it was Pat the went to the media and said he would be traded. There are plenty of reports out there that the Broncos FO was tired of Marshall and thats why he was traded. I assure you that Marshall would not have been traded had Bowlen wanted him to stay.

                    Bowlen rewards good citizens. Bowlen wants a team of high quality players and that is who he is going to pay (see Dawkins, JWall, etc).

                    Unfortunately, Doom is a victim of bad circumstances. Had he not been a RFA, he would have a fat contract. But, due to the current labor uncertainties, he (and every other RFA out there) wont be getting contracts this year.

                    Name any RFA that got a long term contract. There are none. Does that mean EVERY owner is in financial straits? No. It is the reality of the current labor situation.

                    Once the collective bargaining agreement is back in place, Doom will get his coin.

                    The bottom line is that Bowlen can and will pay people.....the people that HE wants to pay and the people that perform on AND off the field.
                    How do you know?
                    Hoping for a defensive-minded head coach and a return to the ZBS on offense. At the very least, no more cheaters for head coach.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by AC1 View Post
                      To quote Sam Parnell regarding the part in bold ...



                      How do you know?
                      Cause I read it in an article.
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                      • #71
                        I beg...

                        Originally posted by McSmashie View Post
                        Part of the issues with Shanny was that he gave ALOT of averaged size toxic contracts to guys that got blown out of Denver after a season or less. It created a MESSY salary cap issue and the Great Purge last season didnt help.

                        Guys can get paid in Denver, they just have to be people that Bowlen wants here long term.
                        ...to differ but only in that with the new "Patriot Way" the big dollar contracts will not be paid out especially to those up for renewal of their contracts such as the class of 06 is facing. It's too bad really because some of these guys (on a lot of teams) deserve to be paid much more than they are being paid. I'm personally sick and tired of hearing the arguments about divas and issues and getting a bad trade and all that. McDaniels made an impression on Bowlen to get hired with some kind of plan. Yes I'm flustered about the "way" of achieving whatever goals have been set because I don't believe in addition by subtraction. It was luck with Tom Brady and McDaniels will soon enough figure that out...until then would football season just here already:orton::go:.
                        Be jealous haters...I am the #1 Broncos fan no matter what your car tag says

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by RockyMts69 View Post
                          And Dre Bly, and Javon Walker, and Niko Koutouvides and...ahhh don't get me started!!!
                          Dale Carter anyone? Eddie Kennison perhaps???

                          There have been some real gems over the years and to think of them now, it make me laugh...........then cry!

                          We've also had some great free agent signings too. Guys like Neil Smith, John Lynch, Brian Dawkins, Gary Zimmerman, Daniel Graham, Brandon Stokley, Bill Romanowski and the list goes on.
                          www.nrlhub.com NRL HUB

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                          • #73
                            Are you taking my name in vain?

                            Originally posted by AC1 View Post
                            To quote Sam Parnell regarding the part in bold ...
                            How do you know?
                            Some things eventually become common knowledge with no footnotes or bibliography required.

                            Travis Henry is the name that springs to mind. There are others including Brandon Marshall. Darrent Williams was murdered.

                            What's the matter? Do you doubt that off-field incidents among players was one of several factors leading to Shanahan's dismissal?

                            I'm backing up McSmashie on this one.

                            Shanahan's lax mismanagement is a topic worthy of many, fora, threads and posts. Archives, anyone?
                            "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by samparnell View Post
                              Some things eventually become common knowledge with no footnotes or bibliography required.

                              Travis Henry is the name that springs to mind. There are others including Brandon Marshall. Darrent Williams was murdered.

                              What's the matter? Do you doubt that off-field incidents among players was one of several factors leading to Shanahan's dismissal?

                              I'm backing up McSmashie on this one.

                              Shanahan's lax mismanagement is a topic worthy of many, fora, threads and posts. Archives, anyone?
                              I attribute the lines that I borrow

                              Shanahan had a few troubled individuals among the many players he brought in over his 14 years. No one is denying that. However, there is no evidence whatsoever that it had anything to do with Bowlen's decision to fire him. I'm sure you appreciate the difference between the two points.

                              If anything, there were more reports about a coup staged by Joe Ellis (whose continued targeting of those faithful to Shanahan lends quite a bit of credence to this theory).

                              It appears those that have developed an unhealthy affection for McDaniels (almost above their liking of the Broncos) seem to indulge in way too much gratuitous bashing of Shanahan to make their idol look good. The post by McSmashie is just another case of playing fast and loose with the facts to achieve this aim.

                              I'd say mismanagement is more the domain of a rookie head coach who, by many accounts, has shown himself to be too immature for the job than a guy who won two Super Bowls and is likely bound for the hall of fame.
                              Hoping for a defensive-minded head coach and a return to the ZBS on offense. At the very least, no more cheaters for head coach.

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