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  • The Broncos Way!

    Bringing in young talented coaches from a respected coaching tree and allowing them to prove their worth has been common place in Denver for quite some time. All young coaches come from some sort of coaching tree. Shannahan failed in LA because he never truly had a mentor when he was in Denver. Reeves was a protege of Tom Landry and brought in the Cowboy way when he became coach here. Shannahan was NOT Reeves protege, and it took him going to the 49er's to find his mentor in Bill Walsh. After leaving the 49er's to come back to the Broncos, he was considered a part of the Bill Walsh coaching tree. He brought in the 49er's way, or "West Coast Offense." Why are we are surprised that McDaniels is bringing in the Patriot way? All new coaches that were a part of a successful regime, will incorporate the "way" in which they have coached, and seen success....and it has always worked here in Denver doing it that way!
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  • #2
    Originally posted by BroncoBeliever View Post
    Bringing in young talented coaches from a respected coaching tree and allowing them to prove their worth has been common place in Denver for quite some time. All young coaches come from some sort of coaching tree. Shannahan failed in LA because he never truly had a mentor when he was in Denver. Reeves was a protege of Tom Landry and brought in the Cowboy way when he became coach here. Shannahan was NOT Reeves protege, and it took him going to the 49er's to find his mentor in Bill Walsh. After leaving the 49er's to come back to the Broncos, he was considered a part of the Bill Walsh coaching tree. He brought in the 49er's way, or "West Coast Offense." Why are we are surprised that McDaniels is bringing in the Patriot way? All new coaches that were a part of a successful regime, will incorporate the "way" in which they have coached, and seen success....and it has always worked here in Denver doing it that way!
    Gasp! how dare you use logic and fact when discussing how coaching history has worked! You foul demon spawn!

    I totally agree with you on this post. That is one of the reasons I am so confused why so many people are in a hurry to get rid of McD. I realize he has made some changes, but that is what happens when a new coach comes in.

    I guess a lot of fans don't remember when Reeves first came in and all the things he did to change the team, or all the ways Shannahan changed the team.

    Well I am sure McD will be fine, and thanks for the post, cp for you my friend!
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    • #3
      Originally posted by BroncoBeliever View Post
      Bringing in young talented coaches from a respected coaching tree and allowing them to prove their worth has been common place in Denver for quite some time. All young coaches come from some sort of coaching tree.
      At some point before the "tree," there was someone who came up with original innovations that those who followed copied.

      Those people are usually referred to as "the real innovators."

      I don't want to sound too anti-McDaniels because I'm not. I'm just tired of the mindless rah-rah.

      Were you boys on the football team or the cheerleading team?

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      • #4
        Originally posted by BroncoBeliever View Post
        Reeves was a protege of Tom Landry and brought in the Cowboy way when he became coach here. :
        Partially correct. When Reeves was hired he kept Joe Collier as defensive coordinator. Reeves was smart enough not to mess with something that worked. And Collier ran a 3-4 while Dallas was a 4-3 "Landry flex" defense, so Reeves didn't do everything the cowboy way.

        As a matter of fact, Red Miller also kept Joe Collier when he was hired.

        And both Miller and Reeves went to Superbowls with Joe Collier as defensive coordinator.

        While we're at it, John Ralson ALSO kept Joe Collier as defensive coordinator.

        In all, Joe Collier was DC for 4 coaches, 3 owners and 3 GMs. Just because someone new comes in doesn't mean that they have to change things that work just for the sake of change.

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        • #5
          I think it is more thoughtful support

          Originally posted by SmokeBassett View Post
          At some point before the "tree," there was someone who came up with original innovations that those who followed copied.

          Those people are usually referred to as "the real innovators."

          I don't want to sound too anti-McDaniels because I'm not. I'm just tired of the mindless rah-rah.

          Were you boys on the football team or the cheerleading team?
          Not quite sure how this could be considered mindless rah-rah. First off, the post is supported by facts and second, it was meant as a post for frustrated fans to put things in perspective. I also never supported any specific coach in the post, although I personally do support McDaniels and his philosophies. I played football in H.S. and College, and now I coach. It is because of that, I admire McDaniels team approach and know just how destructive certain players can be in a locker room. Look, I am just a guy that loves football and I love rooting for the Denver Broncos. I like McDaniels, and I am not ready to judge him until he is given time to implement his strategies. I believe this league is about wins. I don't care who is in the locker room, as long as there is a W on the board at the end of the day. McDaniels said that he wants to be judged on his record on the field. At 8-8 last season, he is no worse than his predecessor and considering it is his first year, I think that is pretty good. If he is unable to produce, I too will call for his head, but until then, I choose to respect his decisions.
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          • #6
            Originally posted by lvbronx View Post
            Partially correct. When Reeves was hired he kept Joe Collier as defensive coordinator. Reeves was smart enough not to mess with something that worked. And Collier ran a 3-4 while Dallas was a 4-3 "Landry flex" defense, so Reeves didn't do everything the cowboy way.

            As a matter of fact, Red Miller also kept Joe Collier when he was hired.

            And both Miller and Reeves went to Superbowls with Joe Collier as defensive coordinator.

            While we're at it, John Ralson ALSO kept Joe Collier as defensive coordinator.

            In all, Joe Collier was DC for 4 coaches, 3 owners and 3 GMs. Just because someone new comes in doesn't mean that they have to change things that work just for the sake of change.
            Thanks for your post! I do agree with it. Collier was a class act, and a one of a kind coach. Just the kind of guy you want to keep in the organization.
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            • #7
              Originally posted by lvbronx View Post
              Partially correct. When Reeves was hired he kept Joe Collier as defensive coordinator. Reeves was smart enough not to mess with something that worked. And Collier ran a 3-4 while Dallas was a 4-3 "Landry flex" defense, so Reeves didn't do everything the cowboy way.

              As a matter of fact, Red Miller also kept Joe Collier when he was hired.

              And both Miller and Reeves went to Superbowls with Joe Collier as defensive coordinator.

              While we're at it, John Ralson ALSO kept Joe Collier as defensive coordinator.

              In all, Joe Collier was DC for 4 coaches, 3 owners and 3 GMs. Just because someone new comes in doesn't mean that they have to change things that work just for the sake of change.
              Keeping coaches around makes sense in general, but I think most agree that the change to the defensive scheme was successful. Though Shanahans run attack was produced many yards it was also marred by not being able to do that against playoff teams after TD got injured. Since Broncos last win no zone blocking team has played in the SB.

              We had a team that under Cutler lost 5 of 6 games against the Chargers, that was feast or famine in the way it played.

              What exactly was worthwhile?

              Seing how Matt Cassell played - I think it would have been a very good decision for Denver to have gotten him instead of Cutler. I think that Kyle will do well this year and be much more productive if he avoids injury.

              On coaching trees - everyone takes what they have learned and builds on that - that is evolution and we all do it.

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              • #8
                After Shanny got canned from the Traiders didn't shanny take the the broncs to the superbowl his first year in denver?

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                • #9
                  He started out as our QB coach and the offensive coordinator then was head coach of the Raiders for a season and a half. Came back to Denver as OC, went to SF, then came back to us as HC.
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                  • #10
                    No

                    Originally posted by LoBoE1 View Post
                    After Shanny got canned from the Traiders didn't shanny take the the broncs to the superbowl his first year in denver?
                    No....Shannahan became Denver's HC in 1995. The Broncos won their Super Bowls in the 1997 and 1998 seasons. His first year they finished 3rd in the division. Next year they finished first, but got knocked out of the playoffs in the first round by jacksonville. I remember Shannon Sharpe saying that the franchise would never recover from that loss....they won the next two Super Bowls. I guess not even the players can predict the future of a franchise. Go figure
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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by BroncoBeliever View Post
                      No....Shannahan became Denver's HC in 1995. The Broncos won their Super Bowls in the 1997 and 1998 seasons. His first year they finished 3rd in the division. Next year they finished first, but got knocked out of the playoffs in the first round by jacksonville. I remember Shannon Sharpe saying that the franchise would never recover from that loss....they won the next two Super Bowls. I guess not even the players can predict the future of a franchise. Go figure
                      I wonder if people had as much hate for Shannahan when we finished third in the division as they do for McD? Admitted, Mike didn't trade away John Elway as his first major move, but then again, Elway was a proven starting qb and already HOF bound.
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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Bigoosh View Post
                        I wonder if people had as much hate for Shannahan when we finished third in the division as they do for McD? Admitted, Mike didn't trade away John Elway as his first major move, but then again, Elway was a proven starting qb and already HOF bound.
                        I think thats where a lot of the dissension comes from. Admittedly Cutler was not Elway, BUT a lot of people felt that he had the tools to become as close to an Elway type QB as we had seen in Denver since John retired. I don't think anyone can argue that he had a cannon for an arm and was very mobile. I'm not saying he had the maturity, the leadership, the "IT" factor that Elway had. So far he has looked less than spectacular with the Bears, and he may very well have lost a lot of his appeal to Denver fans over the next few seasons if he had stayed. As it was though, the trades came at a time when it appeared that Denver had a pretty explosive offense that "could" light up the scoreboard, even though in actuality it also had some pretty serious slumps in 08 as well.

                        Time will tell whether Cutler can mature and improve in his decision making on the field and his attitude off the field. He may end up being known as a second rate QB with a cannon arm (ala Jeff George) before his career is over. My entire point is that Shanahan was in the process of grooming him as John's successor and had made statements about how having Cutler allowed him to open up the entire playbook. With the firing of Shanahan, the hiring of McDaniels, and finally the trade of Cutler? Many fans felt cheated out of an opportunity to see if Cutler "could" fill John's shoes.

                        I understand Josh's commitment to a team first ideology. I understand why Cutler, Marshall, and any other player with anything resembling a me first attitude, has to be sent packing in order for it to succeed. What Josh, and all of his supporters, needs to realize? People don't like change unless you can show "quickly" that the change is for the better. With our offense being so predictable last year, and with their inability to stretch the field, or grind out 1st downs or convert short yardage situations? Its logical that many people are going to look back at the games where Shanahan's Cutler led offense put 30+ on the boards. Time always makes it easy to forget that they also had their games where they struggled to put the ball in the end zone.

                        Having said that though? Most would agree that if Nolans defense had been present on the 08 squad? The win percentage would have been much higher. Its almost as if we have seen a flip flop in the troubled areas of the team, and that is somewhat mystifying considering McDaniels reputation as an offensive guru. For those that disagree?...take the stats from 08 and 09.....put 09's defensive with 08's offensive stats. In either season I believe you will see that we win more games if we could somehow merge those two aspects of the team into one season. If anyone actually does take on this little project I'd be interested in seeing the actual results. Basing ideas on subjective memories isn't always the most accurate way to analyze things.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by BroncoBeliever View Post
                          Bringing in young talented coaches from a respected coaching tree and allowing them to prove their worth has been common place in Denver for quite some time. All young coaches come from some sort of coaching tree. Shannahan failed in LA because he never truly had a mentor when he was in Denver. Reeves was a protege of Tom Landry and brought in the Cowboy way when he became coach here. Shannahan was NOT Reeves protege, and it took him going to the 49er's to find his mentor in Bill Walsh. After leaving the 49er's to come back to the Broncos, he was considered a part of the Bill Walsh coaching tree. He brought in the 49er's way, or "West Coast Offense." Why are we are surprised that McDaniels is bringing in the Patriot way? All new coaches that were a part of a successful regime, will incorporate the "way" in which they have coached, and seen success....and it has always worked here in Denver doing it that way!
                          "Coaching Tree"-...hmmmmm

                          Lets see....

                          Fat Charlie- Fired after 4 terrible seasons at Notre Dame
                          Eric Mangenuis- Fired after failing in New York, got guy who hired him in Cleveland fired....
                          Romeo...oh Romeo..... Fired because his team is terrible, replaced by ANOTHER failure.....

                          Josh McDaniels- Run off Pro Bowl QB, Pro Bowl WR, DC, TE........ How's his Draft picks doing right now? Lead one of the NFL's epic collapses in its history


                          "Coaching Tree"..lol
                          Paroled after 8 long years living in Denver

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by knoxman36and2 View Post
                            I think thats where a lot of the dissension comes from. Admittedly Cutler was not Elway, BUT a lot of people felt that he had the tools to become as close to an Elway type QB as we had seen in Denver since John retired. I don't think anyone can argue that he had a cannon for an arm and was very mobile. I'm not saying he had the maturity, the leadership, the "IT" factor that Elway had. So far he has looked less than spectacular with the Bears, and he may very well have lost a lot of his appeal to Denver fans over the next few seasons if he had stayed. As it was though, the trades came at a time when it appeared that Denver had a pretty explosive offense that "could" light up the scoreboard, even though in actuality it also had some pretty serious slumps in 08 as well.

                            Time will tell whether Cutler can mature and improve in his decision making on the field and his attitude off the field. He may end up being known as a second rate QB with a cannon arm (ala Jeff George) before his career is over. My entire point is that Shanahan was in the process of grooming him as John's successor and had made statements about how having Cutler allowed him to open up the entire playbook. With the firing of Shanahan, the hiring of McDaniels, and finally the trade of Cutler? Many fans felt cheated out of an opportunity to see if Cutler "could" fill John's shoes.

                            I understand Josh's commitment to a team first ideology. I understand why Cutler, Marshall, and any other player with anything resembling a me first attitude, has to be sent packing in order for it to succeed. What Josh, and all of his supporters, needs to realize? People don't like change unless you can show "quickly" that the change is for the better. With our offense being so predictable last year, and with their inability to stretch the field, or grind out 1st downs or convert short yardage situations? Its logical that many people are going to look back at the games where Shanahan's Cutler led offense put 30+ on the boards. Time always makes it easy to forget that they also had their games where they struggled to put the ball in the end zone.

                            Having said that though? Most would agree that if Nolans defense had been present on the 08 squad? The win percentage would have been much higher. Its almost as if we have seen a flip flop in the troubled areas of the team, and that is somewhat mystifying considering McDaniels reputation as an offensive guru. For those that disagree?...take the stats from 08 and 09.....put 09's defensive with 08's offensive stats. In either season I believe you will see that we win more games if we could somehow merge those two aspects of the team into one season. If anyone actually does take on this little project I'd be interested in seeing the actual results. Basing ideas on subjective memories isn't always the most accurate way to analyze things.
                            Very well put. CP for you.

                            I too would also be interested in seeing a combo of 08 and 09 and seeing how well we would turn out. I know off the top of our head the offense would be a bit higher in the ppg area and the defense would probably also be much improved.
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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Bigoosh View Post
                              Very well put. CP for you.

                              I too would also be interested in seeing a combo of 08 and 09 and seeing how well we would turn out. I know off the top of our head the offense would be a bit higher in the ppg area and the defense would probably also be much improved.
                              Even with the end of season slump by our defense in 09 there is no question that the 09 defense was heads and tails better than 08's. In those first 6 games we won a LOT of them in very close games that were low scoring. I'd even make the argument that 08's offense would have been even more productive if they had been given the field position and turnovers that 09's offense benefited from.

                              We have seen a major shift in the productive areas of our team in the last year. I give McDaniels credit for bringing in Nolan, and getting the F/A's and draftee's that contributed to our defense being vastly improved. If he gets the credit for the defense, he also has to bear the blame for the offense though. As the head coach, any decisions made, whether by him, or the front office, will always be attributed to him. Thats going to happen at any level in sports, whether it be high school, college, or Professional. At the end of the day, the win/loss column is always going to be the measuring stick for any head coach, but decisions made along the way can and will effect his popularity in a mediocre season.

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