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  • Originally posted by The Big D View Post
    As I said previously, there's always an excuse. Which is all well and good, but excuses for losses are no substitute for wins.
    You're making an excuse for the team by blaming all the losses on Orton. Does Orton get credit for the 8 wins too? Fair is fair right?

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Fargo View Post
      Bad? Then how is he Hall of Fame caliber? If he had so many years below that of Kyle Orton supposedly, how the Hell isn't Orton in the Hall of Fame?
      There's two things going on here - one is that QB ratings have gone up over time as offensive "technology" has improved. So 79 in 1989 is probably better than 83 in 2010.

      The other is that, truth be told, Elway's HoF resume was weak. It pains me to say that as a Broncos fan, but had he been evaluated on his record through say 1992 Elway wasn't really HoF material. He got better in his later years - his passer rating improved by about 10 to 15 points vs. his early career.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
        You did say tebow would be "automatic" in short yardage which leads me to assume you think it would be easy for him. In addition, if you think 80% conversion rates are possible for a QB who comes in for certain packages because a FB who is a regular team starter and plays on the leagues 4th ranked rushing team, can convert 16 short yardage plays in an entire season, then I am assuming you think it would be easy again. I apologize if you didn't intend for those assumptions. So far no one has shown me any evidence that rotating a QB in for certain plays while taking out the starting QB has been proven effective.
        Once again, you are taking it out of context....i said "pretty much automatic" (referring to his college days).....I never said it was easy. If it were, any cheapo back can do it. It takes a special talent, and I believe that Tim has that talent. I gave you a stat and showed you someone who had great success converting in short yardage, but you refuse to acknowledge it because you can't be subjective on the matter.

        Of course, if the Broncos ran Tebow up the middle on every single third down, he wouldn't convert 80%, but if they switched it up (like every team does), I think he could convert 80% out of perhaps 50 attempts for the year.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Fargo View Post
          Okay, if John Elway's career 79.9 is bottom half of the league.
          To be fair QB ratings are probably ten points higher on average now than they were throughout Elway's career. The rules and the offensive schemes are far more friendly to passers now...
          Only fools bet against Tim Tebow.

          Team Tebow #108

          Yards, without points, mean nothing.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by DancingHorsey View Post
            A QB rating of 83 isn't "horrible".
            As I already said, I should have described it as "mediocre". It does make him a bottom 1/2 of the league QB though and that isn't exactly playoff material.

            I think Broncos Country is suffering from diminished expectations after so many years of mediocre play from Cutler and Orton.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Tripp View Post
              Relevance? Well, you're giving up on Orton after 1 year. You would of given up on Elway, too, according to this logic. See the reasoning there?
              The difference is that Orton has never had a good year, and lacks the physical tools to ever have one.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by The Big D View Post
                Elway had a lot of bad years. I'm not sure why that's relevant to Orton's poor performance, but it is a historical fact.
                Do you see what you have done man?? By you actually posting, and still vehemently, standing your ground under your faulty logic...you have actually made Fargo look logical.
                New England Patriots GM

                Comment


                • Originally posted by The Big D View Post
                  There's two things going on here - one is that QB ratings have gone up over time as offensive "technology" has improved. So 79 in 1989 is probably better than 83 in 2010.
                  "Probably"? You are going to give us "probably" and actually think we are going
                  to accept it as fact? You have already destroyed your credibility here, so why
                  do you think we will accept anything without your backing it up with strong
                  documentation?

                  The other is that, truth be told, Elway's HoF resume was weak. It pains me to say that as a Broncos fan, but had he been evaluated on his record through say 1992 Elway wasn't really HoF material. He got better in his later years - his passer rating improved by about 10 to 15 points vs. his early career.
                  If you had any credibility at all before, you just sent it down the toilet here.


                  BTW, your claim of 2-8 under Orton is inaccurate . . . or dishonest. You are
                  including the Washington game.

                  -----

                  Comment


                  • Broncos rookie Tim Tebow: Bring on the shots

                    http://www.fanfeedr.com/nfl/2010/07/...g-on-the-shots

                    ENGLEWOOD, Colo.(AP) — Tim Tebow is ready for the shots, both on the football field and in the locker room.

                    The two-time national champion from Florida practiced with other rookies Friday in advance of the start of the Denver Broncos’ training camp and said he couldn’t wait for the hard hits.

                    Tebow, the 25th pick in the NFL draft, is fresh off putting his signature on two contracts, one of them a five-year deal to play for the Broncos and the other a multiyear deal to serve as a pitchman for Jockey underwear.

                    Beyond the usual rookie ritual of carrying veterans’ shoulder pads and maybe grabbing them a cup of coffee or a sandwich, Tebow knows he’ll be catching a good amount of grief for his endorsement of the tighty whities.

                    “A few people have said a few things to me about it,” Tebow said with a hearty chuckle. “Actually, Coach McDaniels was the first one to say something to me. But, you know, I’m sure I’ll get some (more) of it, but it’s all in good fun.”

                    So, what did Josh McDaniels tell his prized pupil?

                    “I told him they passed on me for him,” McDaniels cracked. “I turned it down.”

                    Tebow said he was relieved to have a contract in hand so he could finally practice with the Broncos, who were still negotiating Friday with their other first-round draft pick, wide receiver Demaryius Thomas.

                    Tebow said it felt good to work up a sweat again during the one-hour workout at Dove Valley but what he was really looking forward to was getting hit again.

                    Although he’ll don the red no-contact jersey along with starter Kyle Orton and Brady Quinn when camp starts Sunday, Tebow will get a taste of NFL hitting early on because the coaches are eager to see if they can have him run the ball like he did in college.

                    He won’t be blasted by his own teammates; that kind of contact won’t come until the preseason.

                    “It may be a negative of mine, that I look forward to that and I’m a quarterback, so you kind of have to stay calm,” Tebow said. “But it is fun once Sunday gets out here and everybody is hitting. I’ll get excited too.”

                    If Tebow can do it, the Broncos could use a healthy dose this season of the wildcat, the newfangled version of the old-fashioned single-wing employed by several NFL teams, notably the Miami Dolphins.

                    In Denver, they call it the Wild Horse, and Tebow might even throw out of the funky formations.

                    McDaniels said he’s never used a quarterback rotation before but would give it a shot if Tebow is up to the task.

                    “Certainly, people have speculated about how we may or may not use him in those roles, but since we haven’t really done any of it in pads, I haven’t had the opportunity to evaluate what that may do for our team,” McDaniels said. “… There’s going to be some things that he can obviously do that the other two can’t in that regard. How much we do or don’t do will depend on how productive we are at it.”

                    At any rate, McDaniels appreciates Tebow’s tough-mindedness.

                    “I think that’s part of his demeanor. I think that is also part of what he brings to your football team,” McDaniels said. “I think that may be a little unique in terms of the contact part of it.”

                    Quarterbacks can give an offense a toughness by bouncing up after a big collision, McDaniels said, “and I know he’s had an opportunity in college to do some of the other stuff where he actually is inflicting some of the hitting at the end of a run or something like that.”

                    Tebow is generating the kind of buzz that John Elway did during his rookie season in 1983. Tebow isn’t nearly as polished as Elway was coming out of Stanford and he’s not only cramming the NFL playbook but he’s been working tirelessly on tweaking his techniques and mechanics as he adjusts to the pro game.

                    While his detractors say he won’t measure up in the NFL even if he was a great college player, Tebow’s supporters, who include Elway, suggest his athleticism, work ethic and pedigree will translate into success.

                    McDaniels said he wasn’t going to try to tamp down expectations for Tebow, who planned to work late Friday and rise early on Saturday to catch up on the practice plans he missed while his agent hammered out a contract worth $11.25 million over five years.

                    “What other peoples’ expectations are of him or how much he’ll play or contribute or compete to play early, I don’t really know,” McDaniels said. “I’m not that worried about it. I think if he’s the best player at some point in some area, then he’ll be able to affect the team.”
                    This is going to be the best pre-season ever getting to watch Tebow truck 3rd stringers like middle schoolers... Watching Orton/Tebow/Quinn will be 10x better than watching Simms and Brandstater.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by The Big D View Post
                      The other is that, truth be told, Elway's HoF resume was weak. It pains me to say that as a Broncos fan, but had he been evaluated on his record through say 1992 Elway wasn't really HoF material. He got better in his later years - his passer rating improved by about 10 to 15 points vs. his early career.
                      That just flat out isn't true. In fact, that you said it tells me you're probably rather young, and likely never saw much of Elway. In Elway's early years everyone knew he was one of the best QBs in the league. They also knew that his offensive supporting cast was weak and that Dan Reeves was holding him back with super-conservative play-calling.

                      By the beginning of the nineties everyone knew Elway would be in the Hall of Fame. After the nineties all that had changed was that everyone knew he was going to be a first ballot guy.
                      Only fools bet against Tim Tebow.

                      Team Tebow #108

                      Yards, without points, mean nothing.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by DancingHorsey View Post
                        That just flat out isn't true. In fact, that you said it tells me you're probably rather young, and likely never saw much of Elway.
                        I saw every NFL game Elway ever played either from the stands, on TV, or via film after the fact. Keep shooting in the dark there.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by The Big D View Post
                          There's two things going on here - one is that QB ratings have gone up over time as offensive "technology" has improved. So 79 in 1989 is probably better than 83 in 2010.

                          The other is that, truth be told, Elway's HoF resume was weak. It pains me to say that as a Broncos fan, but had he been evaluated on his record through say 1992 Elway wasn't really HoF material. He got better in his later years - his passer rating improved by about 10 to 15 points vs. his early career.
                          So the fact that some and by some I say around 40% of analysts consider him to be the best QB ever means nothing?

                          You're going to dog on Elway just to "prove" your point about Orton. LULZ
                          sigpic
                          2013 Adopted Bronco - Duke Ihenacho

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by The Big D View Post
                            I saw every NFL game Elway ever played either from the stands, on TV, or via film after the fact. Keep shooting in the dark there.
                            I don't know about the others here, but I don't believe you.

                            -----

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by The Big D View Post
                              There's two things going on here - one is that QB ratings have gone up over time as offensive "technology" has improved. So 79 in 1989 is probably better than 83 in 2010.

                              The other is that, truth be told, Elway's HoF resume was weak. It pains me to say that as a Broncos fan, but had he been evaluated on his record through say 1992 Elway wasn't really HoF material. He got better in his later years - his passer rating improved by about 10 to 15 points vs. his early career.
                              Only ten years have passed. His best year was 93 in 1998. Kyle Orton's is 87 in 2009. That's only 11 years. You're telling me that Elway's best year was only slightly better than Orton's previous? Stay tuned, I'm about to make a point.
                              Originally posted by DancingHorsey View Post
                              To be fair QB ratings are probably ten points higher on average now than they were throughout Elway's career. The rules and the offensive schemes are far more friendly to passers now...
                              That, or maybe the QB rating is just a laughable piece of crap to judge the career of a quarterback by. You judge a player's GAME performance with that if you want relevant information, but for a career? Please.

                              Still, here's a guideline:

                              60> bad-ugly
                              70 average
                              80 alright/decent
                              90 good
                              >100 Exceptional

                              Don't fall for such an argument in the future.
                              Last edited by Fargo; 07-30-2010, 06:37 PM.
                              Brock you like a hurricane!
                              sigpic
                              Think of a bigger, stronger, more handsome Eli Manning.... That's Fargo.

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                              • Did McDaniels change his wording a little? ...won't use Tebow in Wild Horses to...give it a shot if Tebow is up to the task?

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