Tim Tebow

[The Big D]

If true why is orton still here?

Because he's essentially free to keep - his contract is tiny and he has next to no trade value. All he costs s a roster slot, and we need a 3rd QB anyways so he doesn't even really cost that.

And why is mcd still behind him 100 %?

McD isn't - that's why he got Quinn, and then Tebow. McD will publicly support Orton until the day he's benched out of courtesy, but it's abundantly clear that McD doesn't want Orton.

[vandammage13]

The bold is where you lose credibility in my eyes. Not a single QB has his attributes and yet Tebow hasn't taken a single snap in the NFL. Are you saying not 1 can run as well as he can? No one is as fast or as tough? No one can throw as well as he can? How can you justify that? All Tebow has right now is potential.

Lots of teams have tried subbing or rotating QBs. The Steelers with Kordell Stewart, the Cowboys with Roger Staubach, the Eagles last year, are a few teams that tried it. All of them were unsuccessful at it and ended up going to a 1 QB system. I just don't see that being any different here in Denver. It amazes me that you don't see how pulling your starting QB can affect a team.

I would love to be proven wrong in this during the upcoming season but I will have to wait to see to believe it.

As far as you asking if no one can run better than him, I would have to say there is probably not a QB better at running the ball. Sure, there are some QB's faster than he is, but Tebow is very quick and probably the strongest, which will translate into him being a pretty decent runner, and better that all other QB's.

As far as a QB being disrupted by being taken out, the Dolphins won their Division in 2008 pulling their QB....Granted it was for a RB in the Wlidcat, but they were pulling the QB nonetheless, and it didn't seem to hurt them.

Just because not too many teams have done it doesn't mean that it can't be done.

[topscribe]

And its sleepy time for me now
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I do consider all the facts. That is what you people who do not like Orton hate.

But I also do not want to get dragged into a childish Cutler/Orton comparison.
If you want to do that, then find some adolescents who like that kind of thing.

In the course of your cherry-picking, you want to produce this and that as
"reasons." But when I come back with "reasons," mine are "excuses." I'm too
old to fall for that. So here's the deal:

McDaniels said Orton is the starter.
McDaniels said Orton did a good job last year, considering the circumstances.
McDaniels said Orton is smart and accurate with his throws.
Champ said Orton is "my man."
Lloyd said Orton "can make all the throws."
Marshall said he loves Orton, that he throws a "catchable ball."

Reid just flat-out said there is a huge gap between Orton and the other two,
that Orton can carry the offense, but the offense would have to carry either
of the others at this point.

Truly, the only people who bash Orton are those who sit in the stands or on
the couch with chips and beer and scream at the refs. Those who play with
him every day like him and are solidly behind him, and recognize him as a leader.

So you go ahead and continue your implications that I don't know what I'm
talking about because the only people on this board who know as much as I
do about Orton are Chicago fans. And they generally like him.

P.S. If people started a bunch of crap about Quinn or Tebow, I would shoot
them down, too. I did that with the Plummer-bashers and the Cutler-bashers.
Your cute little "Ortonite" moniker is immature at best . . .

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[Nimrod]

I am not sure how McD will use Tim. I will tell you this - if he is ever asked to run the ball he will be happy to. Guy just does not shy away from contact. He is who he is. He was called out a couple of times by defensive player in college. NFL caliber defensive players and not one of them was talking after the game. Look at Berry's video when asked what the hardest hit was he ever took? This is a first round defensive back. His response was "Tebow, I don't know what I was thinking."

Probably not going to be an issue anyway. I doubt McD will design run plays without strong options to hand off, pitch, shovel pass or pass before he runs. But he will run.

[Nimrod]

Because he's essentially free to keep - his contract is tiny and he has next to no trade value. All he costs s a roster slot, and we need a 3rd QB anyways so he doesn't even really cost that.

McD isn't - that's why he got Quinn, and then Tebow. McD will publicly support Orton until the day he's benched out of courtesy, but it's abundantly clear that McD doesn't want Orton.

I will add a point to your analysis that isn't negative to what you are saying because I believe you could be very correct. That said, I think there is value in keeping Orton and letting him start because he is much more familiar with the offensive scheme. Tebow and Quinn are new to this offense and they may take some time to get it down. Meanwhile Orton can get another chance, while they develop and learn, to see what he can do.

[chazoe60]

Did I hop into a hot tub timemachine and go back a year? Cutler talk? Can't we just move on?

[The Big D]

I will add a point to your analysis that isn't negative to what you are saying because I believe you could be very correct. That said, I think there is value in keeping Orton and letting him start because he is much more familiar with the offensive scheme. Tebow and Quinn are new to this offense and they may take some time to get it down. Meanwhile Orton can get another chance, while they develop and learn, to see what he can do.

I think this is probably why we're hearing all this talk about Orton still starting - he does, at this point, know the playbook better. Honestly that's the only advantage I see him having over Tebow though.

I look at it like this: last year was the absolute worst McD has ever seen his offense run. Even Cassel, who last started at QB in high school, ran it better. I can't imagine McD is OK with seeing his scheme downgraded like that.

[beastlyskronk]

I think this is probably why we're hearing all this talk about Orton still starting - he does, at this point, know the playbook better. Honestly that's the only advantage I see him having over Tebow though.

I look at it like this: last year was the absolute worst McD has ever seen his offense run. Even Cassel, who last started at QB in high school, ran it better. I can't imagine McD is OK with seeing his scheme downgraded like that.

That's the only advantage he has over Tebow? So having better accuracy, better at reading coverages, better at taking snaps from under C, having a better overall understanding of the game, and having a more refined throwing motion aren't advantages to you?

[Acedude]

Right now, Tebow has a shorter motion than Cutler did. My complaint about Jay was his windmill throwing motion.

Cutler can make up a lot of it through pure arm strength, but the truth is, right now Tim has a shorter throwing motion of the two.

I agree with all of that.

I've seen some clips on the local news of Tebow throwing in the mini-camps and there is no dip to the hip. His throwing motion looks good. Lefty's always seem to have a slight hitch just before the arm comes forward, though. Look at lefty baseball pitchers, they tend to have just a little slower delivery than a righty, they **** the wrist backward a bit more than a righty, put a little more wrist into the throw.

But Tebow is carrying the ball high when he drops back, keeping it high rather than dropping it into a windup like Cutler does. Tebow has said the new motion has become muscle memory, so now I suppose the question is how accurate he is with the new motion. We'll find out real soon, right?

[The Big D]

That's the only advantage he has over Tebow? So having better accuracy, better at reading coverages, better at taking snaps from under C, having a better overall understanding of the game, and having a more refined throwing motion aren't advantages to you?

Orton isn't more accurate than Tebow, certainly not with the same mix of throws. And Orton didn't read coverages last year - he repeatedly missed X being open. They both take snaps perfectly fine. Tebow's throwing motion is just fine.

In other words, you're making up nonsense to support a very weak QB.

[Acedude]

Reports out of Training camp today said Tebow was throwing every ball "hard" on a string with extreme accuracy...
short, medium and long balls.

Scott Hastings on the radio.. from Camp.

I said "real soon" in my post above, and soon it was.

[KO8pectate]

I think this is probably why we're hearing all this talk about Orton still starting - he does, at this point, know the playbook better. Honestly that's the only advantage I see him having over Tebow though.

I look at it like this: last year was the absolute worst McD has ever seen his offense run. Even Cassel, who last started at QB in high school, ran it better. I can't imagine McD is OK with seeing his scheme downgraded like that.

really well when did he say this do you have a link ?

Cassell studied the offense 3 years before taking over and took over a offense in which everyone already knew the system and were coming off a record setting offensive the season before with Brady.

Orton took over a team in which everyone was 6 months into the system. They all were learning it at the same time .

Cassell 2008 - age 27 when the season started

327 -516 63.4 % 3693 yds 7.2 ypa 21 tds 11 picks 89.4 Qbr


Orton 2009 - age 26 when the season started

336 - 541 62.1% 3802 yds 7.0 ypa 21 tds 12 picks 86.8 QBr


Brady 2006 - age 29 when the season started his first with JMD as his OC

319 - 516 61.8% 3529 yds 6.8 ypa 24 tds 12 picks 87.9 QBR

Now you have Reid on the radio saying Gaffney who was in NE when Cassell took over telling Reid that Orton is further along than cassell was when he took over after 3 years of learning it . Ortons been in it 16 months .........

[beastlyskronk]

Orton isn't more accurate than Tebow, certainly not with the same mix of throws. And Orton didn't read coverages last year - he repeatedly missed X being open. They both take snaps perfectly fine. Tebow's throwing motion is just fine.

In other words, you're making up nonsense to support a very weak QB.

Orton has read more coverages than Tebow has, he's better at it. So he missed someone being open one time (I'm sure he missed it more than that), well Tebow's going to miss people being open throughout his entire career. Peyton Manning has missed people being open his entire career. And yes Orton is more accurate than Tebow is at this point. It's really not even debateable, Orton is the superior QB as of right now.

[The Big D]

Orton has read more coverages than Tebow has, he's better at it.

This is horrible logic - experience doesn't equal skill, especially when that experience is marked by a repeated lack of success as it is with Orton.

[topscribe]

Orton isn't more accurate than Tebow, certainly not with the same mix of throws. And Orton didn't read coverages last year - he repeatedly missed X being open. They both take snaps perfectly fine. Tebow's throwing motion is just fine.

In other words, you're making up nonsense to support a very weak QB.

Then so did McDaniels make it up.

Because Beastly was only parroting what McDaniels has said about Orton . . .

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