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  • Originally posted by Houdini View Post
    Anyhow, Tim made it clear to Gruden he wanted to become a pure pocket passer.
    I've seen that, Houdini, and that's again, kind of my point.

    Tebow's success does not hinge on him "being unique."

    It hinges on his ability to perform the tasks that have been proven to be effective.

    Thus the, "You've never seen anything like Tebow" argument is irrelevant. It's not part of the equation. Tebow won't be a failure or a success based on his uniquity. He will be a failure or success based on his ability to throw the ball from inside the pocket.

    I believe he can do that. I believe he'll be a good QB eventually.

    I do not however, believe that he will be a success because "we've never seen anything like this before." In fact, that's a reason we should be apprehensive.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Fargo View Post
      He posted 30. Why don't you watch them instead of avoiding blatant evidence and solid arguments?

      Once you watch them, post 30 to back you up. Otherwise, you just got smoked. Your logic has been pummeled.
      What the heck are you talking about? I said teams frequently took the safety off X (not on throwing downs obviously) and put him in the box or otherwise adjusted a zone to take advantage of the extra man. So he posts videos of Y and Z being tackled by strong side safeties. Huh? That's stupid internet arguing at it's worst - "links" that show nothing of interest, but are somehow supposed to support your argument because they're "links". Bull.

      If he wants to post links he needs to post links that show something about the question at hand (coverage on X), not random plays that happen to be from Broncos games.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Fargo View Post
        Many, many fans have records of those games through any obtainable means. I mean, a season DVD of that stuff that they literally watch over an over again in the preseason to make a point given the chance.

        You're clearly not one of them. Regardless, are you telling me you can't just pull up a highlight or video from NFL.com that proves one of your points? Or are you just blowing steam here?
        If you know anything about NFL telecasts, you'll know they rarely show a QB FAILING to target an open deep receiver, and never in a highlight reel. You need the inactive cameras (the one they would have switched to had Orton thrown to X) to see that.

        That's just the way the TV world works.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post
          Didn't look like Orton had trouble hitting Marshall deep in the Washington game or 20 yards down the field in the NYG game.
          That's Marshall running from Z. Not X.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by The Big D View Post
            What the heck are you talking about? I said teams frequently took the safety off X (not on throwing downs obviously) and put him in the box or otherwise adjusted a zone to take advantage of the extra man. So he posts videos of Y and Z being tackled by strong side safeties. Huh? That's stupid internet arguing at it's worst - "links" that show nothing of interest, but are somehow supposed to support your argument because they're "links". Bull.

            If he wants to post links he needs to post links that show something about the question at hand (coverage on X), not random plays that happen to be from Broncos games.
            Show me. Put up man. Step up to the plate and give me photo or video evidence of this.

            I'll give you a well written pair of posts that blows that comment you just made out of the water.

            For the record, Topscribe is right.

            Before the season even started last year, during these conversations people said things like, "They'll just stack the box on us to stop the run because Orton can't throw deep."

            My response was, "You're mistaken, and if they try it, they'll pay for it. Orton can throw deep and I think every NFL defense knows it despite what ignorant fans here might say."

            The games started, and all season long they most certainly did make sure they had deep coverage. Part of this was because we didn't have an ultra-fast receiver on the team that could push them deep, so they could safely play over the top. Part of this was because unlike fans like Big D, those that actually objectively watch and understand the NFL know Orton can throw deep.

            They simply didn't give that chance, and without a run game that could push them, they didn't have to crowd the box.

            They simply hung deep coverage on the field almost the entire season.

            No, they weren't stuffing the run because we couldn't throw deep.

            We couldn't throw deep because they didn't need extra people to stuff our run.
            How is the above incorrect? It's a question. Go answer it if you want to prove a point.

            Add to that the stats, I remember bringing up the point that troy p only recorded two tackles against the run on us. One being a blitz and the other 10 yards down the field.

            Watching the game is one thing, understanding whats going on is another.
            This is a solid example in the Steelers games. Got anything like this Big D?

            And for him to post 30 videos of x not being taken off you say? That leads me to believe that x's safety isn't taken off a whole lot. Yet another reason why you got smoked by Topscribe, Alastor, Elecshoc, and Rogue.
            Brock you like a hurricane!
            sigpic
            Think of a bigger, stronger, more handsome Eli Manning.... That's Fargo.

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            • This thread is still alive and kickin? Man, he sure is persistent.
              2009 Adopted Denver Bronco: Kyle Orton :orton:

              2010 Adopted Denver Bronco: Jason Hunter

              Tao of Elvis #1

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              • I won't get into arguments about semantics or anything of that nature. However, I agree that Tim must be a good passer for any of his running to be effective. If he can be a good passer, then yes, it allows Tim to make some runs as needed. If he can't pass, his running just won't cut it as a QB in the NFL.

                The argument of "never seen a player like Tim" I won't bother getting into. I could care less about what that means. I care more about what Tim can do, not what he is perceived to be.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Fargo View Post
                  And for him to post 30 videos of x not being taken off you say? That leads me to believe that x's safety isn't taken off a whole lot. Yet another reason why you got smoked by Topscribe, Alastor, Elecshoc, and Rogue.
                  This is ridiculous. Let's look at the first video he posted.

                  http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos...vs-Chiefs-2009

                  First you sit through the retarded 30 second madden commercial.

                  Then it doesn't even show the coverage on X. X and his corner leave the screen at about second 6 and never reappears. It's irrelevant garbage from the perspective of this discussion. It's just a video that happens to have the Broncos in it.

                  Sorry, but I'm not going to watch the same retarded madden commercial over and over again just to see videos that show nothing of interest. If someone wants to post videos that ACTUALLY show X and coverage, that's interesting. But the videos posted were not.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by The Big D View Post
                    That's Marshall running from Z. Not X.
                    Doesn't matter, you claimed the S rolled over to his side did you not? And you completely ignored everything else I said about Royal not being big enough or not having good enough hops to be a viable deep threat. Not to mention Royal has struggled in press coverage

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by The Big D View Post
                      This is ridiculous. Let's look at the first video he posted.

                      http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos...vs-Chiefs-2009

                      First you sit through the retarded 30 second madden commercial.

                      Then it doesn't even show the coverage on X. X and his corner leave the screen at about second 6 and never reappears. It's irrelevant garbage from the perspective of this discussion. It's just a video that happens to have the Broncos in it.

                      Sorry, but I'm not going to watch the same retarded madden commercial over and over again just to see videos that show nothing of interest. If someone wants to post videos that ACTUALLY show X and coverage, that's interesting. But the videos posted were not.
                      I didn't even see one commercial when I watched those. Even then, you didn't watch them. That's the bottom line. If you're going to make an argument, you've got to be ready to do more than post opinions time and time again.
                      Brock you like a hurricane!
                      sigpic
                      Think of a bigger, stronger, more handsome Eli Manning.... That's Fargo.

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                      • Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post
                        Doesn't matter, you claimed the S rolled over to his side did you not? And you completely ignored everything else I said about Royal not being big enough or not having good enough hops to be a viable deep threat. Not to mention Royal has struggled in press coverage
                        I'm not sure what you're saying. Teams 100% left a safety on Marshall - while Marshall was a disaster in other ways, he was magic at breaking tackles. You'd be insane not to have someone behind him. It was X's safety (except for the few times X was Marshall) that helped against the run.

                        Any objections to Royal's abilities ignore the fact that he was repeatedly OPEN running from X. Royal WAS good enough - Orton just couldn't handle his side of the bargain.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Fargo View Post
                          I didn't even see one commercial when I watched those.
                          Uh, what? The first thing it does is play a :30 Madden 2010 commercial. It does it once for every video.

                          I'm seriously wondering what your angle is here. The videos don't show what he claimed they show. They're larded down with commercials. No one's going to watch the same madden commercial 30 times just to see nothing of interest. Sorry. If people want to post videos that are actually relevant to how other teams covered X, that's one thing. But random videos that don't even show X's route aren't interesting.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by The Big D View Post
                            Then it doesn't even show the coverage on X. X and his corner leave the screen at about second 6 and never reappears.
                            When the play starts you can see 10 of the Chiefs on camera. There's one guy missing, the safety that's over the top on Gaffney.

                            Royal goes deep on his side, and is double-covered. The corner is there and there's a safety over the top.

                            The only receiver that gets uncovered is the back out of the backfield toward the end of the play who is about two yards off the line.

                            Royal got double-covered on that play, D. They had over-under coverage on him. In fact, he even has a LB that tries to stay with him to start the play so he's triple-covered for at least the first 7 steps.

                            He's obviously blanketed.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by The Big D View Post
                              I'm not sure what you're saying. Teams 100% left a safety on Marshall - while Marshall was a disaster in other ways, he was magic at breaking tackles. You'd be insane not to have someone behind him. It was X's safety (except for the few times X was Marshall) that helped against the run.

                              Any objections to Royal's abilities ignore the fact that he was repeatedly OPEN running from X. Royal WAS good enough - Orton just couldn't handle his side of the bargain.
                              If Royal was open so often last year, you would think our coaching staff would work with Orton on his reads and getting the ball to Eddie more frequent this next year, right? Instead, the coaching staff is moving Eddie to the slot this year. I guess they didn't see what you were apparently seeing, neither. And...I guarantee they have much more film to watch than you do.
                              2009 Adopted Denver Bronco: Kyle Orton :orton:

                              2010 Adopted Denver Bronco: Jason Hunter

                              Tao of Elvis #1

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                              • Originally posted by Alastor View Post
                                When the play starts you can see 10 of the Chiefs on camera. There's one guy missing, the safety that's over the top on Gaffney.

                                Royal goes deep on his side, and is double-covered. The corner is there and there's a safety over the top.

                                The only receiver that gets uncovered is the back out of the backfield toward the end of the play who is about two yards off the line.

                                Royal got double-covered on that play, D. They had over-under coverage on him. In fact, he even has a LB that tries to stay with him to start the play so he's triple-covered for at least the first 7 steps.

                                He's obviously blanketed.
                                By your logic KC had 12 men on the field, 3 of them safeties. Little hard to swallow

                                The safety that was deep was the strong side.

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