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Did McD blow it on Turner and Rick Dennison?

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  • Did McD blow it on Turner and Rick Dennison?

    Read on the post today from Paige, "It's a combination of the line and the running backs, and, truth be known, the Broncos miss their offensive line coach and their running backs coach from last year.
    Former running backs coach Bobby Turner is with Mike Shanahan and the Redskins (see Ryan Torain, who will be starting this week for Washington). Former offensive line coach Rick Dennison is now the offensive coordinator for Houston head coach Gary Kubiak (and the Texans are off to a fast start with an improved running game). It's no coincidence. Everybody seems to have forgotten that the Broncos had two of the best in the business, and they're not here anymore."


    I still don't get why McD didn't keep Bobby turner and Rick dennison on board. Look at what dennison is doing with arian foster and blowing up their running game. Then you look at what Turner is doing with portis and developing torain.

    Thoughts?

  • #2
    I believe both Bobby Turner and Rick Dennison, after several years of competent work, were bound to reach high positions in the NFL. They did not simply left the Broncos, they were promoted, and deservedly so. Dennison is the Texans OC, replacing Kyle Shanahan. Turner is the RBs coach and assistant head coach in Washington.

    Could they still be effective here? Who am I to say no? After so many years in the league, I doubt they don't have knowledge about the PBS that McDaniels likes to use. But they probably felt more comfortable working for Kubiak and Shanahan, old friendships. And it did not look like McDaniels wanted to promote them.
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    • #3
      I don't happen to think that's much of it.....


      Both guys left for promotions, wanted to leave, and were experts in different systems.

      The haters will cry of corse McD ran good people off, but the reality is that the people that replaced them aren't junk.


      Look at the experience along the houston line, look how the offense has been running the same system for multiple years, the same QB, the same guy calling plays. There's a consistancy that can't be denyied.


      It has more to do with the consistancy, and the fact the same o-line hasn't played two games in the same spots yet this season.

      Let alone the TE & RB's have missed time, or are new.



      Studsville, Barone, and Wylie aren't junk, they just need time getting the injured players, and the new players on the same page.

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      • #4
        These guys are missing assignments left and right. There is simply no chemistry up front to begin with. I understand that there has been a lot of shuffling players around up front, but come on.....This is the NFL.

        Barone had better step it up as a first year o-line coach and get these guys on the same page; rookies or not. If not, I could easily see us looking for a new o-line coach in the future.
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        • #5
          Originally posted by aznightmare View Post
          Read on the post today from Paige, "It's a combination of the line and the running backs, and, truth be known, the Broncos miss their offensive line coach and their running backs coach from last year.
          Former running backs coach Bobby Turner is with Mike Shanahan and the Redskins (see Ryan Torain, who will be starting this week for Washington). Former offensive line coach Rick Dennison is now the offensive coordinator for Houston head coach Gary Kubiak (and the Texans are off to a fast start with an improved running game). It's no coincidence. Everybody seems to have forgotten that the Broncos had two of the best in the business, and they're not here anymore."


          I still don't get why McD didn't keep Bobby turner and Rick dennison on board. Look at what dennison is doing with arian foster and blowing up their running game. Then you look at what Turner is doing with portis and developing torain.

          Thoughts?
          Sure. They specialize in a blocking scheme that the Broncos are going away from. For better or worse, they work in zone blocking schemes and train blockers and runners in how to make max progress in those schemes.

          With McD declaring that we needed to get bigger on both sides of the ball and would be moving to more of a power-blocking scheme, they chose to go to teams that did what they do best: Houston and Washington. both those teams run the schemes they are familiar with and are coaches they like working with.

          I don't think that McD "blew it" with either one of them. He chose to go in a different direction and they wanted to continue to do what they were already doing. No harm, no foul. Let's remember that even before McD arrived, the Broncos with their undersized lines couldn't get the short yardage and goal-line yardage. That was a major reason that McD wanted to go with a power blocking scheme where we could force the ball into the end zone. It's pretty much what the rest of the league uses, but there are growing pains in getting there. These are some of the growing pains, particularly when combined with replacing two linemen in the same year and the remaining three linemen still struggling with injuries.
          You Tell 'em Justice is coming. You tell 'em I'M coming!sigpic

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          • #6
            Like the others have said, Turner and Dennison left for better positions and to continue working with teams that run the scheme they know best. McD wants the PBS instead of the ZBS. That's the real issue. But even he has said he's still utilizing the ZBS at times. Why? If he wants to be a power running team, he should do it. IMO the ZBS is a better system. It worked extremely well for us all through the Shanahan years. But perhaps the issue we're having this year is not so much that ZB is better than PB, but that McD, while saying he wants a PB team, hasn't fully committed to it. Whichever scheme you think is best, use it. Commit to it. He's using a combination of both now and it's clearly not working.
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            • #7
              Originally posted by 80stheman View Post
              Like the others have said, Turner and Dennison left for better positions and to continue working with teams that run the scheme they know best. McD wants the PBS instead of the ZBS. That's the real issue. But even he has said he's still utilizing the ZBS at times. Why? If he wants to be a power running team, he should do it. IMO the ZBS is a better system. It worked extremely well for us all through the Shanahan years. But perhaps the issue we're having this year is not so much that ZB is better than PB, but that McD, while saying he wants a PB team, hasn't fully committed to it. Whichever scheme you think is best, use it. Commit to it. He's using a combination of both now and it's clearly not working.
              I agree. If your not gonna commit to a system, your not going to be successful. McDaniels needs to get people in here that are good with what he wants to run. But if he isn't committing to ZBS or PBS, then we aren't going to be successful. Choose one, make that our identity and lets go. If we want to be a PBS, get bigger guys in here. If we want ZBS, get more athletic guys in here.
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              • #8
                I think its got something to do with it but you cannot base the entire thing on it.

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                • #9
                  Why is it, that when somebody from the staff moves on to a better job, all these guys are claiming that McDaniels "ran them off"? It is complete and utter BS!

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by rogue719 View Post
                    Sure. They specialize in a blocking scheme that the Broncos are going away from. For better or worse, they work in zone blocking schemes and train blockers and runners in how to make max progress in those schemes.

                    With McD declaring that we needed to get bigger on both sides of the ball and would be moving to more of a power-blocking scheme, they chose to go to teams that did what they do best: Houston and Washington. both those teams run the schemes they are familiar with and are coaches they like working with.

                    I don't think that McD "blew it" with either one of them. He chose to go in a different direction and they wanted to continue to do what they were already doing. No harm, no foul. Let's remember that even before McD arrived, the Broncos with their undersized lines couldn't get the short yardage and goal-line yardage. That was a major reason that McD wanted to go with a power blocking scheme where we could force the ball into the end zone. It's pretty much what the rest of the league uses, but there are growing pains in getting there. These are some of the growing pains, particularly when combined with replacing two linemen in the same year and the remaining three linemen still struggling with injuries.
                    I don't disagree with what you said. We previously had 5 zone blocking guys that were pretty good at pass blocking and efficient at run blocking.

                    McD had a different scheme but it's tough to replace 5 Olinemen.

                    I believed last year we couldn't get short yardage situations right was due to the neglected use of Hillis rather than anything. This year Moreno just isnt here and maroney dances around too much.

                    We still have 3/5 of the original zone blockers and who best than dennison to coach them up to a new scheme? he knew the players well.

                    Either way, I believe if McD really wanted to keep them he could've promoted them or give them more money.

                    Our running game stinks and it shows

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by aznightmare View Post
                      I don't disagree with what you said. We previously had 5 zone blocking guys that were pretty good at pass blocking and efficient at run blocking.

                      McD had a different scheme but it's tough to replace 5 Olinemen.

                      I believed last year we couldn't get short yardage situations right was due to the neglected use of Hillis rather than anything. This year Moreno just isnt here and maroney dances around too much.

                      We still have 3/5 of the original zone blockers and who best than dennison to coach them up to a new scheme? he knew the players well.

                      Either way, I believe if McD really wanted to keep them he could've promoted them or give them more money.

                      Our running game stinks and it shows
                      The league says that the only way another team can lure away a coach who's already working for a team in the NFL is to offer them a promotion.

                      We got Bates by making him Vice President of Football operations in charge of defense. Same with Heimerdinger by making him VP of Football operations in charge of offense.

                      But as I pointed out before, even when Shanny was here, we still couldn't get short yardage on the ground or goal lines. It was a major failing of Shanny's ZBS. Plenty of yards between the 20's but if you needed just one and wanted to run your best running back, we found our offensive line shoved backwards into the backfield.

                      I think that the Power Blocking scheme is the way to go, but there are going to be growing pains to get there, sadly. Our bookend tackles have the size to block for both systems. I think Kuper can also handle the job. But in addition to three guys rehabbing from injuries on our O-line we have two brand new guys, one of them making the line calls for the linemen. The O-line will be a work in progress this season.
                      You Tell 'em Justice is coming. You tell 'em I'M coming!sigpic

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                      • #12
                        I don't really blame a coach for doing what HE wants to do. McD obviously wants to run the power blocking scheme and less zone blocking. Obviously, it hasn't worked out very well, but its his call. Coaches wouldn't get anywhere if they just ran what others wanted them to do or thought they should do even if it wasn't their style. Every coach creates his own style, and Dennison and Turner were probably comfortable going somewhere else, not to mention they received promotions.

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                        • #13
                          We could use them, for sure, but they earned what they are doing now. They deserve it, and as much as I want them here, power to them!:thumb:
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                          • #14
                            This really needs no argument, its painfully obvious he did. I along with many others thought this was an outrageous move when it happened. Frankly some will argue this no matter how obvious the difference in our running game is, with those two on staff we always had 1000 yd rushers, and I dont need to tell anyone how awefull our run game is now. HOWEVER what is done is done, and we have to move on and hope he can find a way to get his new scheme working. Lets hope it happens sooner than later.

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                            • #15
                              Rick Dennison and Bobby Turner ...

                              ... have gone on to positions of greater responsibility and higher pay.

                              Barone, Wiley and Studesville are now the OL and RB position coaches.

                              There is much to be fixed on the OL not only in run blocking, but in pass pro as well.

                              Tennessee ran some odd fronts in passing situations and it was shocking to see the OL double a pass rusher only to let a blitzer come free. They should pass block one on one.

                              Baltimore's 3-4 should leave the guards uncovered to pick up blitzes from inside backers. Tackles should be able to hand off 5 techs to the guards when an outside rusher appears.

                              Pass protection is more scheme/design oriented, but blocking assignments on run plays are more technique and aggressive attitude. Pass pro is easier, so I expect steady imnprovement on run blocking.

                              I doubt if McDaniels will make any coaching changes mid-season. If he's not happy with the job those position coaches are doing, expect the changes to be made soon after the season ends.
                              "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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