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Perception Versus Reality

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  • Perception Versus Reality

    We've been having several discussions (okay, two) about perceptions of Orton versus the reality.

    During these conversations, I've twice encouraged people to take their perceptions and put them to the test by watching games and keeping track on a sheet of paper some trait they perceive Orton is bad at and comparing it to other QBs.

    In this case, the conversation was about his mobility. The perception is that Orton isn't very mobile.

    I challenge that perception, and feel that it's largely the way people interpret the things Orton does, rather than what he actually does, that creates that feeling.

    To this end, I have made a worksheet for some of us to use while watching this Sunday's games.

    Our intent is to track QBs in each of the three games and keep track of certain behaviors. We'll start with the Chicago game which features two highly mobile quarterbacks - Favre and Cutler.

    We'll then track these same traits with two highly immobile quarterbacks - at least in perception; Cassel and Orton.

    We'll top it off with the late game which will feature Big Ben and Tom Brady, two of the best passers in the league at not getting sacked - Ben because of his strength, size and mobility, and Brady because of his execution of the system.

    When all is said and done, we'll compare.

    Attached to this thread is an Excel worksheet. It will print on one page. It actually prints two on one page so that you can get a buddy to do it with you - there are bound to be some disputes, so we can see where the average tally lies if we have more people doing it.

    The first column is for the QB's name.

    The second column reads pass plays. This is pretty self explanatory. Put a hash mark down for each pass play, disregarding plays called back for penalties.

    The third Column is Lack of Pocket Presence. This is for plays where the QB could have - and I mean legitimately could have, not "miracle that would impress Elway" could have - and should have moved in order to extend the play, but didn't, and got their block knocked off.


    The fourth column reads Pocket Presence Gain. This is to be used for movement in the pocket by the quarterback that extends the play within the pocket. It is also to be used when the quarterback stands still in the face of pressure and delivers the pass down-field even if he takes one in the kisser. This too is pocket presence, even if it ain't pretty.

    The fifth column reads Pocket Presence No Gain. This is for either moving in the pocket and extending the play but not getting any yards out of it (including rushes for zero yards), or for throwing the ball while taking one in the kisser but it fell incomplete or out of bounds - or was thrown away because pressure was about to sack the QB.

    The sixth column reads Pocket Presence Loss. Where the QB has pocket presence, senses the danger, but gets nailed anyway - for a loss. This includes dumping the pass off for a loss should the receiver be stupid enough to catch it rather than letting it fall incomplete.

    The seventh column is for Out of Pocket Gain. This is for when the QB extends the play and moves outside of the pocket (outside of both tackles), and gains positive yards either with his feet or with a throw.

    The eighth column is for Out of Pocket No Gain. For example if the QB gets out of the pocket and throws it away or throws incomplete. Or if the QB gets out of the pocket and runs for "not quite enough to count as a yard."

    The ninth column is for Out of Pocket Loss. This means the QB leaves the pocket and somehow or other still ends up losing yards, or otherwise causing a negative play. This includes interceptions.



    The perception is that Orton is immobile. Let's see how he actually stacks up against some other QBs this week. Save the sheet, print it off, and track it during the game. Some of us will be doing the same thing. We'll then compare on a play-by-play basis what the results are, and how much our perception matters compared to what our eyes see on any given play.

  • #2
    he is not mr mobility, he moves around well in the pocket but you can tell he knows he isnt going to outrun anyone, not to mention he admitted it "not being a strong part of his game"

    he so awkward, like manning, not mobile but still effective none the less
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    • #3
      I really like this idea and am very interested in the outcome.

      I hope more people than you and Broncbeat participate. If not, I hope you and Broncbeat can stay sober enough to finish the chart.

      I would definitely participate if possible, unfortunately I can't.
      2013 Adopt-a-Bronco: Demaryius Thomas

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Broncoholic3233 View Post
        I really like this idea and am very interested in the outcome.

        I hope more people than you and Broncbeat participate. If not, I hope you and Broncbeat can stay sober enough to finish the chart.

        I would definitely participate if possible, unfortunately I can't.
        That's my only real concern as well.

        Or if we stink it up and I just can't bear to stand around and watch another game after ours on Sunday.

        Like I said, let's just all do the best we can and see what comes out. Maybe we'll all fail miserably, but maybe we'll get six or seven folks that do a good job tracking the stats too.

        Let's try it and see what happens.

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        • #5
          Not sure how Farve falls into the "mobile" category (at the present time) as he is old and plagued with injuries, but either way, its a very intriguing exercise (you clever teacher you) and I am excited to see the results.

          There should be a category specifically for Cutler titled "plays in which Jay didn't have a second to do anything due to 3 defenders being in his face the second the ball was snapped"
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          • #6
            Originally posted by Alastor View Post
            That's my only real concern as well.

            Or if we stink it up and I just can't bear to stand around and watch another game after ours on Sunday.

            Like I said, let's just all do the best we can and see what comes out. Maybe we'll all fail miserably, but maybe we'll get six or seven folks that do a good job tracking the stats too.

            Let's try it and see what happens.
            Yeah, I understand.

            Hopefully you guys can at least get through the early game and our game, so we have small sample size if you can't get to the rest.

            But like I said, I really hope some take advantage of this. Your CP's are worth a lot, maybe you should bribe some people.
            2013 Adopt-a-Bronco: Demaryius Thomas

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Broncoholic3233 View Post
              Yeah, I understand.

              Hopefully you guys can at least get through the early game and our game, so we have small sample size if you can't get to the rest.

              But like I said, I really hope some take advantage of this. Your CP's are worth a lot, maybe you should bribe some people.
              I am shocked, shocked to find that gambling going on in here.

              Culture. Get some if the reference is not understood.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Alastor View Post
                I am shocked, shocked to find that gambling going on in here.

                Culture. Get some if the reference is not understood.
                Here are your winnings.

                2013 Adopt-a-Bronco: Demaryius Thomas

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                • #9
                  Thank you very much.

                  Everybody out.

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                  • #10
                    Vick needs to be included in this exercise, he has become the total package as far as a QB is concerned imo.
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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by nickmeyer View Post
                      Vick needs to be included in this exercise, he has become the total package as far as a QB is concerned imo.
                      They aren't hand picked QBs. They are one early game, the Broncos game, the SNF game and the MNF game I believe.
                      2013 Adopt-a-Bronco: Demaryius Thomas

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Broncoholic3233 View Post
                        They aren't hand picked QBs. They are one early game, the Broncos game, the SNF game and the MNF game I believe.
                        Well since he plays Monday night maybe they can include him, I would but will be watching Monday Night Football from the office.
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                        • #13
                          I would like to add Cutler being included in this exercise is awesome, that guy probably has the worst pocket presence out of all the QB in the league. Hopefully this will help prove my theory.
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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by nickmeyer View Post
                            Well since he plays Monday night maybe they can include him, I would but will be watching Monday Night Football from the office.
                            Indeed he does.

                            After looking at the spreadsheet again, I think it is just the Chi game, Denver game and SNF game.

                            Maybe Alastor will include the MNF game, not sure though.
                            2013 Adopt-a-Bronco: Demaryius Thomas

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                            • #15
                              You guys really want to track four games?

                              I felt we'd be fortunate to get two, and perhaps might get a miracle and get three.

                              I didn't do MNF because... Well, that's just a fantasy man, I can't even get these people to show up at the bar on game day!

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