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  • #91
    Originally posted by acpell671 View Post
    This offense is worse than Shanny's offense in most meaningful statistical categories for various reasons e.g. changing blocking schemes, lack of commitment to the run, etc. Shanny's offense was far more explosive and more well rounded than what we are showing this year.

    Sure, you can say that he brought in team first guys and got rid of "malcontents", but to me it shows nothing more to me than an unwillingness to work with the many types of personalities in the NFL as any HC in this league is saddled with. It didn't make us a better team just because he got so called "team first" guys. I don't know any of his players any better than I know any of the players he let go. All I know is what I see on the field is sub par.

    The best leaders surround themselves with different people with different opinions and philosophies in order to create a smarter more dynamic environment. McD has chased away most of the people that could have provided different insight to enable growth for this team. He stunted everything including the development of some great talent that he was handed on a silver platter.

    Some fans don't appreciate being linked to Spygate and that was enough for me.
    Kind agree but think it was Shanahan's offense, So remove Shanahan and you left with just offense. This offense w/o Shanahan was a bunch of players built towards Shanahan. What if we take the coaches out of it and look at the team. I think it is about the same team now, but with a much much younger O that is "unproven" and an "old" D that wasn't meant to last but to provide a mold to convert schemes. So, IDK I guess I see the two comparisoned as the same but one is younger and has new Basic philosophies installed. that may need switched again. The roster moves have set us back that two years though, sooo. Take it as it is I guess.
    I hate the Defenseless Receiver rule and the fines. Posted since '07. 2011 rule addition :nono: backhand a fool!

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    • #92
      Originally posted by WillTopper View Post
      2011 - 7W 9L ( and winning the games we should win)
      2012 - 9W 7L ( AND beating some teams we should not have beaten)
      2013 - 11W 5L and 2 playoff games ( AND knocking off a couple of the powerhouse teams )

      And of course every team worrying about playing us, instead of every team considering us one of their sure wins.
      Definetly, the problem lies is can we withstand two losing season back to back. We didn't even make it through the first losing season in recent memory with out a meltdown.
      I hate the Defenseless Receiver rule and the fines. Posted since '07. 2011 rule addition :nono: backhand a fool!

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      • #93
        but to me it shows nothing more to me than an unwillingness to work with the many types of personalities in the NFL as any HC in this league is saddled with.
        ...back in the day that was considered a leadership challenge. As the big dawg, what are you going to do with them to get 'em in the right direction? I don't know...mentorship, perhaps.

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        • #94
          Originally posted by Hoserman117 View Post
          I'm hoping it's not an obvious downgrade and next year with those players back and healthy we'll actually win the games we likely would have with McDaniels as the guy.

          We have a good roster, there's no doubt. Our issue was staying healthy, and I really hope our next coach knows what he's doing with it.
          I disagree about the roster.

          The only good unit as a whole on the team are the WR's. Every, and I mean every, other unit has glaring weaknesses.

          QB- Orton, solid not special. Behind him we have a legit bust (Quinn), and an unknown but well hyped Tebow.

          RB - Moreno, oft injured but playing well of late. Behind him....no one.

          WR - Stud group, easily the best unit on the team.

          TE - We have Graham, a solid guy. But junk behind him.

          OL- has played like crap since McD's arrival. Sure to get better with time, especially with the rookies. But will they improve enough to actually be a GOOD line?

          DL - garbage, plain and simple.

          LB - We have DJ. Doom coming back. Otherwise, a bunch of roleplayers.

          S - Dawkins is not the player he was even just a year ago. Hill has been burnt more than Tony Lilly. McBath shows promise, but thats it. As a unit...old and unproductive.

          CB - Champ may not be THE best CB in the league anymore, but he still one of the best. Cox....burnt as bad as Elvis Patterson. Chances are he will improve in his second year, DB's almost always do. But other than him....nothing.

          Overall this team has substandard talent, and on top of that it is getting old quick especially on the defensive side of the ball. We have a few playmakers, but not many. And we have a few solid roleplayer types, but not enough. We have a near total lack of depth across the board, except at WR.

          This is not a talented team by NFL standards.
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          • #95
            Originally posted by TheRob View Post
            I do agree that 3-9 isn't acceptable. I also agree it is what it is.

            I just feel it's a bit more complicated than saying Josh should have simply fixed the defense. When Bowlen hired him he knew it was gonna mean wholesale changes. He didn't say "here Josh take this westcoast hybrid, zone blocking scheme and install your spread power running system to get us to the playoffs."

            Bowlen knew Josh was from a different animal and the only way Josh knew how to have success fast was to do it his way. That's why Cassel was almost a Bronco, he could have played at a level similiar to Kyle Orton today, 2 years ago. Josh was comfy with that and I can see his point.

            Chances are the next HC we have will face the same challenge and it certainly will take time to clean out the locker room and coaching staff before we see consistant results. That is predicated on some serious improvements to our front office structure and hypothetically our best case scenario.
            Actually the talk that was coming out of the team right after Shanny was let go was that the offense was to be kept pretty much intact including the coaches.

            Bowlen himself talked about that, and about finding a coach that would fix the defense and take the offense to the next level.

            Not one word was said about rebuilding the offense in any way, shape, or form. Did it need some work? Sure, I dont think anyone argues otherwise. Did it need gutted and totally rebuilt. No.

            And no one NO ONE thought it was going to be either. Even after McD was hired, he talked about how great the offensive system he was bringing in was such an awesome fit for the talent and specifically, the QB he had was.

            As we all know though, what was said, and what came about, were two very very different things.
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            • #96
              Lol, this coming from the guy who hated on Hillis any time he got and was so happy when he was traded, and won't honor a sig bet about him because he doesn't post here anymore.

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              • #97
                Originally posted by saphire1 View Post
                so when the team got off to a 6-0 start, you still had it in the back of your head that "oh, this is not gonna last...because we're REALLY rebuilding...this is just fool's gold...san diego is going to overtake us eventually..."??

                you didnt even entertain the idea of playoffs??? you didnt entertain the idea of mcdaniels being such a genius that he ran the "franchise" QB out of town and replaced with a widely-known mediocre QB, and still got off to a great start??? you werent amazed how the defense had such a turnaround in a short period of time that you may have thought, all the problems of this team (offense, defense) were all cured by mcd and his staff in a short period, and will get the team to playoffs???

                sure...
                Couldn't have said it better myself...

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                • #98
                  Originally posted by marcus_miller View Post
                  Kind agree but think it was Shanahan's offense, So remove Shanahan and you left with just offense. This offense w/o Shanahan was a bunch of players built towards Shanahan. What if we take the coaches out of it and look at the team. I think it is about the same team now, but with a much much younger O that is "unproven" and an "old" D that wasn't meant to last but to provide a mold to convert schemes. So, IDK I guess I see the two comparisoned as the same but one is younger and has new Basic philosophies installed. that may need switched again. The roster moves have set us back that two years though, sooo. Take it as it is I guess.
                  Yes, it was just an offense filled with young good talent.

                  He didn't have the luxury of many years to show he could win. He had a good base to start with while he rebuilt the D. There was a good core of young players that nobody disagrees could have been serviceable to him. Our D was not serviceable.

                  I also don't know that this team is younger. Are they? I keep seeing you say this, but can you provide a link? I swear that we were the second youngest team in the league behind KC in 08.

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                  • #99
                    Originally posted by TheRob View Post
                    I am guessing you mean **** Lebeau? Pitt DC since 2004ish?

                    Anyways my comment was directed to the idea that McDaniels should have been succesful instantly because Tomlin essentially was. I disagree that the situations were remotely similiar.
                    I definitely agree and thanks for not bashing on the type lol.

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                    • Originally posted by TheRob View Post
                      I do agree that 3-9 isn't acceptable. I also agree it is what it is.

                      I just feel it's a bit more complicated than saying Josh should have simply fixed the defense. When Bowlen hired him he knew it was gonna mean wholesale changes. He didn't say "here Josh take this westcoast hybrid, zone blocking scheme and install your spread power running system to get us to the playoffs."

                      Bowlen knew Josh was from a different animal and the only way Josh knew how to have success fast was to do it his way. That's why Cassel was almost a Bronco, he could have played at a level similiar to Kyle Orton today, 2 years ago. Josh was comfy with that and I can see his point.

                      Chances are the next HC we have will face the same challenge and it certainly will take time to clean out the locker room and coaching staff before we see consistant results. That is predicated on some serious improvements to our front office structure and hypothetically our best case scenario.
                      I agree with this. I never expected McD to run Shanny's system. He doesn't know it and can't coach it. Kinda silly to expect it, really.

                      But every HC/GM in this league has a limited number of roster moves they can make every year and McD didn't choose well.

                      Here's an analogy for you. Remember the show Let's Make A Deal? Well, McD gave up brand new kitchen appliances for whatever was behind door number 3. He hoped he'd have a new car but ended up with a bag of groceries filled with a bunch of things that could be used to cook a fancy dinner, but didn't necessarily go together. Then he tried bartering for some of those groceries and ended up with almost nothing at all. I just made myself LOL. I think I'd better go do something more constructive.

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