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Kyle Orton Part 2 (Merged)

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  • Originally posted by topscribe View Post
    That has been a point of mine. You pit Tebow against Orton this next year, and
    when the dust settles, the Broncos will be the proud owners of an extremely
    expensive backup, no matter which one it is . . .

    -----
    Naw, but Tebow's contract is incentive-laden. His pay is quite manageable if he were to be the backup.

    Tebow put his money where his mouth was, and agreed to a contract that only pays him starter money if he becomes the starter, plus it has performance incentives.

    So they could bank Tebow one more year and financially it would work.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Doran Peck View Post
      The only guy in the entire universe stupid enough to do something like... trade away a #1 draft slot for a Kyle Orton... is Josh McDaniels, so the only way it might happen is if he gets hired somewhere in the offseason.

      ...and I'm dead serious.


      Really, Ortons value drops considerably with Tebow doing well....teams know we don't need Orton and his big price tag.

      Orton's dismall play at the end of the season hurt his value a bit as well....and we've seen that from him in nearly all of his starting seasons.

      With several decent QB prospects available in the first round...with full careers ahead of them, why would a team spend a #1 on a guy just ready to hit the 2nd half of his career. Orton is a good QB...but not a guy you can guarantee will come in and immediately help your franchise.....he's kind of like a box of chocolates if he bounces to another team....and that just isn't equal to a #1 draft slot.
      It doesn't look like Luck is coming out in the upcoming draft. That makes Cam Newton the best QB in the draft. After him, it drops off quite a bit - Jake Locker, Ryan Mallett, Terrelle Pryor...

      So there's one, possibly two decent QBs in the draft. How many teams are likely to need a new QB? Minny, Arizona, Miami, Buffalo, Cincy, Tennessee, Washington, Carolina, Seattle, and San Fran. There's 10 teams that would at least be looking to get better at the QB position. And only 2 possible "starters" in the draft.

      That leaves at least 8 teams looking to trade or sign a FA.

      Which vets are likely to be available besides Orton? Maybe McNabb, Collins, Young, Anderson, Alex Smith, Jon Kitna, Shaun Hill, and Chad Henne?

      Just which of those would most teams take over Orton? The only one you might be able to argue for is McNabb. At age 34, coming off a season with 14 TDs to 15 picks and being benched in favor of Rex *freakin'* Grossman, he looks like he's probably done.

      So it doesn't matter whether or not Tebow does well. It's going to be a seller's market and KO looks to be the best available vet this off-season. I think that Denver might be able to get an auction going...
      "That's a crap question."
      - Kyle Orton

      Comment


      • Originally posted by topscribe View Post
        Hmmm . . where does Miami pick? Because, as I understand, after the first 10
        or so comes a group of athletes that could go in almost any order. I'm totally
        not an expert on the draft, and I could be all wet here, but my thinking is
        there might not be enough of a difference in talent between the lower half
        of the first and a high 2nd, which Denver has, unless it would be to give
        Miami back its second.

        Still, I don't really like the sound of that deal. Maybe Orton and Miami's 2nd
        back for their 1st and 5th, but the Broncos keep their 6th . . .

        -----
        I havent broken it down to top and bottom of rounds, but I have the hitrate numbers for the different rounds

        As you may notice - there is a significant drop-off in hitrate of "great players" from 1st to second...so yes it matters.
        sigpic

        Comment


        • Originally posted by jgod654 View Post
          I havent broken it down to top and bottom of rounds, but I have the hitrate numbers for the different rounds

          As you may notice - there is a significant drop-off in hitrate of "great players" from 1st to second...so yes it matters.
          Told you I could be all wet. Apparently, I am . . .

          -----

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Jay3 View Post
            Naw, but Tebow's contract is incentive-laden. His pay is quite manageable if he were to be the backup.

            Tebow put his money where his mouth was, and agreed to a contract that only pays him starter money if he becomes the starter, plus it has performance incentives.

            So they could bank Tebow one more year and financially it would work.
            Methinks there's going to be a lot of mixed emotions in Dove Valley next year if Orton stays . . .

            -----

            Comment


            • Originally posted by topscribe View Post
              Methinks there's going to be a lot of mixed emotions in Dove Valley next year if Orton stays . . .

              -----
              Mixed? I don't think that's quite the word...
              Only fools bet against Tim Tebow.

              Team Tebow #108

              Yards, without points, mean nothing.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by topscribe View Post
                Methinks there's going to be a lot of mixed emotions in Dove Valley next year if Orton stays . . .

                -----
                Not a chance.

                It's Tebow or bust at this point...

                Comment


                • By "mixed emotions" he meant whether to merely bench Orton or to also set him on fire.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by topscribe View Post
                    Methinks there's going to be a lot of mixed emotions in Dove Valley next year if Orton stays . . .

                    -----
                    Originally posted by DancingHorsey View Post
                    Mixed? I don't think that's quite the word...
                    He's already caused a mini divide in the locker room with the whole "I can't say much good about Tebow for fear of hurting Orton's feelings" thing. That issues says to me that Orton is talking to some folks behind the scenes voicing his displeasure to his friends on the team. I don't like that attitude. I frankly do not like nor respect Orton's attitude as of late.

                    Now, obviously I am not privy to what really goes on so this is all guesswork on my part and I do not mean to state it as fact at all, just my feeling of what is going on. I think if we try to keep him as a backup he will cause problems.

                    Comment


                    • You guys are funny.

                      Again, they aren't viewing Orton through your eyes. Keep that in mind.

                      But I think it's all moot, anyway, because I think he's gone. The Broncos have
                      too great a need for draft choices, and he is one of the few commodities they
                      have that could get any for them.

                      In fact - and this is a bit off-topic - keep an eye on Champ. They might see
                      some draft choices in him, too. Just saying . . .

                      -----

                      Comment


                      • At this point I believe Tebow would beat out KO in TC so if KO does indeed stay it would be as a overpaid backup, though a good backup.

                        I think we could get at most a second for KO. Although the idea about MIA 2nd + KO for MIA's first sounds awesome. Doubt it would go through though.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by neckbeard View Post
                          It doesn't look like Luck is coming out in the upcoming draft. That makes Cam Newton the best QB in the draft. After him, it drops off quite a bit - Jake Locker, Ryan Mallett, Terrelle Pryor...

                          So there's one, possibly two decent QBs in the draft. How many teams are likely to need a new QB? Minny, Arizona, Miami, Buffalo, Cincy, Tennessee, Washington, Carolina, Seattle, and San Fran. There's 10 teams that would at least be looking to get better at the QB position. And only 2 possible "starters" in the draft.

                          That leaves at least 8 teams looking to trade or sign a FA.

                          Which vets are likely to be available besides Orton? Maybe McNabb, Collins, Young, Anderson, Alex Smith, Jon Kitna, Shaun Hill, and Chad Henne?

                          Just which of those would most teams take over Orton? The only one you might be able to argue for is McNabb. At age 34, coming off a season with 14 TDs to 15 picks and being benched in favor of Rex *freakin'* Grossman, he looks like he's probably done.

                          So it doesn't matter whether or not Tebow does well. It's going to be a seller's market and KO looks to be the best available vet this off-season. I think that Denver might be able to get an auction going...
                          I completely agree. KO is going to be a valued commodity. And if you think about it....KO's performance in 2010 compared with for instance Chad Hennes? Its not even close. If I was the Miami GM I would at least consider dishing out a 2012 1st rounder...
                          sigpic

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by chazoe60 View Post
                            He's already caused a mini divide in the locker room with the whole "I can't say much good about Tebow for fear of hurting Orton's feelings" thing. That issues says to me that Orton is talking to some folks behind the scenes voicing his displeasure to his friends on the team. I don't like that attitude. I frankly do not like nor respect Orton's attitude as of late.

                            Now, obviously I am not privy to what really goes on so this is all guesswork on my part and I do not mean to state it as fact at all, just my feeling of what is going on. I think if we try to keep him as a backup he will cause problems.
                            I agree.

                            He's obviously not happy, and doesn't want to be here.

                            Get what you can and move on.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by topscribe View Post
                              Told you I could be all wet. Apparently, I am . . .

                              -----
                              Well you are excused. I did the analysis like 1 month ago because I could't not find it anywhere...so you are just as wet as anyone who has not read my thread yet
                              sigpic

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by DancingHorsey
                                Sure they aren't. They don't see the astronomical gap in intensity. They don't see the ability to make plays when it matters most. Sure, whatever you say.
                                Let's don't get into a Tebow/Orton debate. Save that for Orton's army or
                                Tebow's groupies. I happen to like both quarterbacks very much and will have
                                no problem whatsoever rooting for either.

                                It's just that I know they do not view a player as most of these fans do, and I
                                have tried to open my mind to see it as much as I can through their eyes.

                                I know this is going to be taken wrong, so I'm prepared for the flames to follow . . .

                                -----
                                Last edited by topscribe; 12-30-2010, 10:18 AM.

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