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  • #16
    Originally posted by Eric Fetzer View Post
    In todays NFL, I completly disagree.

    11 of the last 14 superbowls were won with an elite Qb.

    "Defense wins championships" is quickly becoming outdated.

    The NFL's a passing league first and foremost.
    This^^ X 100,000,000

    Last 15 SB winning QB's, Elite in Bold (IMO of course)

    Drew Brees
    Ben Roethlisberger

    Eli Manning
    Peyton Manning
    Ben Roethlisberger
    Tom Brady
    Tom Brady

    Brad Johnson
    Tom Brady
    Trent Dilfer
    Kurt Warner
    John Elway
    John Elway
    Brett Favre
    Troy Aikman


    QB's win championships, whether people like it or not, and it is only becoming more so recently.

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    • #17
      Yea definitely not the greatest example of why a Defense is important. But i will say that from watching the game Seattle did have some big defensive plays and were able to pressure brees very well in important situations.

      Anyways, next time wait for a defense that doesn't let up 36 points to explain why we need defense lol
      sigpic
      Thanks Freyaka for the Sig! And Avatar!

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      • #18
        What was Brees' passer rating? Who really cares about stats and ratings if you lose...the whole point was that Seattle had the halftime lead and their defense made enough plays to pull it out. Seattle had a lot of drop balls and at one point had a three and out (all passes) and put the defense in a "back against the wall" situation. This was not your typical shootout...so just looking at the points given up does not do justice at all. Brees did not pick them apart and he finished with over 400 yards. SO WHAT!!!!
        The Train stops here!!

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        • #19
          I misunderstood the OP.

          Your definitley right. To win the superbowl you have to have a defense. But still, elite Qbs win more often with good defenses the other way around.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by InMcDWeTrust View Post
            This^^ X 100,000,000

            Last 15 SB winning QB's, Elite in Bold (IMO of course)

            Drew Brees----- Excellent Defense Led League in takaways if I remember correctly
            Ben Roethlisberger
            -----Steelers historically great always top 10 defense
            Eli Manning----- Great defense
            Peyton Manning
            Ben Roethlisberger------Great Defense
            Tom Brady------Very strong solid Defense
            Tom Brady
            ------Very strong solid Defense
            Brad Johnson-------One of the greatest defenses in history
            Tom Brady -------Very strong solid Defense
            Trent Dilfer--------One of the greatest defenses in history
            Kurt Warner
            John Elway------Very strong solid Defense
            John Elway------Very strong solid Defense
            Brett Favre------Very strong solid Defense
            Troy Aikman
            --------Very strong solid Defense

            QB's win championships, whether people like it or not, and it is only becoming more so recently.
            Helped you out there. the QB play is only 1/3 of it. All the winning QB's you listed all played on teams with very strong defenses at the least. Your first QB, the last to win, won and even made it to the SB because of his teams stellar defensive and ST performances in both the NFCCG and the SB. Even Peyton won not on his arm, but on the fact that his defense had a cakewalk in playing against Rex Grossman. Those Patsie defenses were very stout as well. They had one of the best core of LB's in the last 10 years. Think our GOAT Elway would've won it on his arm alone? We tried that and got shellacked 3 times. Once we fielded a strong defense that could get the opposition off the field so TD could milk the clock, then we won. The only cases really are Manning and Warner. The Rams just played to outscore everyone so their defense just sat back in pass coverage all day which made the game "easy". And Peyton......Sexy Rexy :thumb:. So defense does still win championships. It's just the QB's that have won are good enough to take advantage when the defense gets them the ball back.
            #swapping

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            • #21
              Well said Floss!!!! The point was that an adequate Qb could get places with a good defense, not that you have to have a "great defense" or who wins championships, stats or ratings. Seattle's D kept them in the game when it was 10-0 and 17-7 especially after the first interception early in the game. If N.O. scores again being up ten, then the game is over. I just wanted to show support for our team needing to focus on the defense and not worry about Tebow. REMEMBER THIS IS A SEATTLE TEAM THAT THE BRONCOS BEAT!!!! So we may not be that far away. And don't forget we are talking about a team that was 7-9
              The Train stops here!!

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              • #22
                Originally posted by flosstein View Post
                Helped you out there. the QB play is only 1/3 of it. All the winning QB's you listed all played on teams with very strong defenses at the least. Your first QB, the last to win, won and even made it to the SB because of his teams stellar defensive and ST performances in both the NFCCG and the SB. Even Peyton won not on his arm, but on the fact that his defense had a cakewalk in playing against Rex Grossman. Those Patsie defenses were very stout as well. They had one of the best core of LB's in the last 10 years. Think our GOAT Elway would've won it on his arm alone? We tried that and got shellacked 3 times. Once we fielded a strong defense that could get the opposition off the field so TD could milk the clock, then we won. The only cases really are Manning and Warner. The Rams just played to outscore everyone so their defense just sat back in pass coverage all day which made the game "easy". And Peyton......Sexy Rexy :thumb:. So defense does still win championships. It's just the QB's that have won are good enough to take advantage when the defense gets them the ball back.
                Nobody is saying a team can win a championship with an elite Qb alone, what some of us are saying is you dont win championships without an elite Qb, period (only few exceptions recently with absolutely dominate defense).

                Most of the teams with the elite Qbs who won didnt have a top 3 defense. They were good, but not great. They won because of their Qb above all else.

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                • #23
                  Seattles line just dominated the Saints on both sides of the ball thats how you win games.
                  2016 Draft: http://forums.denverbroncos.com/show...aft-Watch-list

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Eric Fetzer View Post
                    Nobody is saying a team can win a championship with an elite Qb alone, what some of us are saying is you dont win championships without an elite Qb, period (only few exceptions recently with absolutely dominate defense).

                    Most of the teams with the elite Qbs who won didnt have a top 3 defense. They were good, but not great. They won because of their Qb above all else.
                    Read my last line. That's why certain QB's can and will win in big games. They know what to do when the defense gets them the ball back. So yes I did agree that the ability of the QB has a lot to do with winning championships, but defense is always what makes situations available for those QB's to either rise to "elite" status or show why they are "elite". Most of those SB's in your list were won on big defensive or ST plays.
                    #swapping

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                    • #25
                      Now if jets win their game then this thread holds some merit. Sanchez is looking pathetic.
                      :go:

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by flosstein View Post
                        Read my last line. That's why certain QB's can and will win in big games. They know what to do when the defense gets them the ball back. So yes I did agree that the ability of the QB has a lot to do with winning championships, but defense is always what makes situations available for those QB's to either rise to "elite" status or show why they are "elite". Most of those SB's in your list were won on big defensive or ST plays.
                        Defense isnt responsible for all offensive opportuinties in the NFL. Sorry.

                        The NFL also isnt decided by one or two plays.
                        Last edited by Eric Fetzer; 01-08-2011, 06:53 PM.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Eric Fetzer View Post
                          Defense isnt responsible for all offensive opportuinties in the NFL. Sorry.

                          The NFL also isnt decided by one or two plays.
                          Didn't say all. And yes games can be varied by a number of things, but how many of those SB's in that list have come down to a big play on defense or ST? And yes, in the NFL I watch 24 Sunday's/year games do come down to one or two plays. All that crap about 60 mins is all good, but many games come down to one play. Here's an example, if Hill does not hook Holmes mask and the pass falls incomplete, we win the ball game. If Farve throws the ball out of play or runs out of bounds, the Vikes kick a FG and go to the SB, game over. And the biggest "one play" in history, Scott "Wide Right" Norwood missed a game winning 47yd FG in SBXXV. So how can you say games are not decided by one play when that one play is the play that made a difference between a W or L?
                          #swapping

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                          • #28
                            The great Peyton Manning goes down!!!! Why? Because the Colts defense could not get a stop when it counted the most. Peyton did not have good numbers tonight period point blank. So in one night you have Brees and Manning eliminated while H-Beck and Sanchez move on....this makes my point even more credible!!!!! This whole thing remember is about what the Broncos need to do and focus on....
                            The Train stops here!!

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by flosstein View Post
                              Didn't say all. And yes games can be varied by a number of things, but how many of those SB's in that list have come down to a big play on defense or ST? And yes, in the NFL I watch 24 Sunday's/year games do come down to one or two plays. All that crap about 60 mins is all good, but many games come down to one play. Here's an example, if Hill does not hook Holmes mask and the pass falls incomplete, we win the ball game. If Farve throws the ball out of play or runs out of bounds, the Vikes kick a FG and go to the SB, game over. And the biggest "one play" in history, Scott "Wide Right" Norwood missed a game winning 47yd FG in SBXXV. So how can you say games are not decided by one play when that one play is the play that made a difference between a W or L?
                              You're argument is well and good for plays at or near the end of the game. What about all the other opportunities those individuals/teams had throughout the duration of the game to make a difference? We, as fans, choose to remember the last important play of a game, when in reality, there are dozens of plays in a single game that can decide the outcome of a game, most of which DON'T happen in the last five minutes of a game. Ask any player on the Colts team, that game wasn't lost on Folk's field goal tonight. And they would be correct in saying that, IMO.
                              Don't give up... Don't ever give up

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by IABronco05 View Post
                                You're argument is well and good for plays at or near the end of the game. What about all the other opportunities those individuals/teams had throughout the duration of the game to make a difference? We, as fans, choose to remember the last important play of a game, when in reality, there are dozens of plays in a single game that can decide the outcome of a game, most of which DON'T happen in the last five minutes of a game. Ask any player on the Colts team, that game wasn't lost on Folk's field goal tonight. And they would be correct in saying that, IMO.
                                Because it's the last play that counts. Those plays all find their way into the outcome, but when it comes down to it, one play changed the outcome of the game. In the case of tonite's game. It was the last play, before the FG that sealed the Colts fate. Sanchez, who played horrific all game and missed several wide open WR's in stride, sailed a pass to Edwards and he made a great catch. The Colts were blowing coverages all night and probably any other QB in the NFL would've shredded the Colts. But the Jets made enough mistakes to keep Peyton in the game. Even with a stoopid ST penalty the defense came up big and forced a punt. But after the FG they allowed a big kick return, then failed to stop the "Sanchize". So they can wine all they want about the 1st 57mins of the game, but it was the last 3 that mattered the most.
                                #swapping

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