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Moving to 4-3, is looking very likely....

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  • #76
    The 34 is a crap defense. It is too difficult to make with the limited players available in FA or draft.

    We also have a 4-3 team as every single player on our current roster has been previously in a 4-3 but Jamal who should be gone next year.

    Also, the 34 defense is against the run not the pass as some suggest. However, without a Woodley, Harrison, Lewis or the ton of studs on a 34 it is a craphole defense.

    PS the Jets run a 46 not a 34 defense

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    • #77
      Rivera is the best example of a 4-3 guy who managed to change to a 3-4 well. Tomlin had LeBeau and his friend Butler (who helped bring him in) the D was already installed and he didnt have to change much.

      Honestly though the DC will have more to do with what D we run then coach in most cases.

      P.S. the Jets run a multiple front leaning 3-4 with a 46 option Cleveland is the same.
      Last edited by Joshecalpoly; 01-08-2011, 09:49 PM.
      2016 Draft: http://forums.denverbroncos.com/show...aft-Watch-list

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      • #78
        If we move to the 4-3

        I guess I wouldn't mind. Dumervil did have success as a DE in the 4-3 in 06, 07 and 08 (when he wasn't hurt). So just move Dumervil back to DE. Idk about Ayers tho..

        If we moved, then I would STRONGLY suggest drafting Da Quan Bowers. But we would need to then get 2 starting DT's instead of 1.

        Would Haggan fit? Not sure about this one.
        sigpic

        2014 Pick'Em Challenge Champion
        Proud Fan of the 3 Time Super Bowl Champion Denver Broncos

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        • #79
          Originally posted by Uptown View Post
          The 34 is a crap defense. It is too difficult to make with the limited players available in FA or draft.

          We also have a 4-3 team as every single player on our current roster has been previously in a 4-3 but Jamal who should be gone next year.

          Also, the 34 defense is against the run not the pass as some suggest. However, without a Woodley, Harrison, Lewis or the ton of studs on a 34 it is a craphole defense.

          PS the Jets run a 46 not a 34 defense
          Disagree with most of all this
          I hate the Defenseless Receiver rule and the fines. Posted since '07. 2011 rule addition :nono: backhand a fool!

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          • #80
            Originally posted by marcus_miller View Post
            Disagree with most of all this
            Great then make your case

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            • #81
              Originally posted by Uptown View Post
              Great then make your case
              I agree with marcusmiller. The 3-4 isn't necessarily bad. The Steelers have a 3-4 defense. IMO it's better for pass rush because it gives you one extra linebacker. Downside is that it's difficult to adjust to the 3-4.

              I say 4-3 is better for run stopping.
              sigpic

              2014 Pick'Em Challenge Champion
              Proud Fan of the 3 Time Super Bowl Champion Denver Broncos

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              • #82
                Originally posted by BroncoFanBoy View Post
                I agree with marcusmiller. The 3-4 isn't necessarily bad. The Steelers have a 3-4 defense. IMO it's better for pass rush because it gives you one extra linebacker. Downside is that it's difficult to adjust to the 3-4.

                I say 4-3 is better for run stopping.
                lol, you do not want to go there about pass rush with Uptown. I know firsthand.

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by Uptown View Post
                  Great then make your case
                  Jets run a multiple front with 3-4 leanings and some 46 plays

                  NE Multiple front leaning 3-4

                  Pit 3-4 gap 2

                  GB 3-4 gap 2

                  KC 3-4 gap 2

                  BAL Multiple front leaning 4-3

                  NO Multiple front leaning 4-3

                  ATL 4-3

                  KC 3-4 gap 2

                  Thats 1 team that runs an exclusively a 4-3 set in the playoffs and 8 that have a 3-4 set that have a top 12 D. Of the few teams that run a 3-4 we are one of the only ones who arent good at stopping the run or blitzing.

                  SD 3-4 gap 1

                  TB 4-3 Tampa 2

                  STL 4-3

                  There are more good D's that run a 3-4 then 4-3. Buf, Was, Dallas, and us out of the 16 teams that use a 3-4 those are the only ones not in the top 16 which shows how pathetic we are.

                  Randy Mueller, “the 3-4 defensive end is easier to identify and find when it comes to scouting and acquiring personnel,” while 4-3 DEs “are rare and hard to find and therefore very expensive to keep. There is no question that speed pass rushers are very much an impact position on the football field and their cap numbers reflect that. On the other hand, 3-4 defensive ends can be found easier and are much less expensive when it comes to ‘cap dollars’."
                  Last edited by Joshecalpoly; 01-09-2011, 12:46 AM.
                  2016 Draft: http://forums.denverbroncos.com/show...aft-Watch-list

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                  • #84
                    I don't think the debate over 3-4 vs 4-3 matters as much as getting a DC who knows how to create turnovers. The biggest reason that the '08 4-3 and the '10 3-4 defenses the Broncos ran were both so bad is that neither created pressure or turnovers. The biggest difference between a Saints D that won a SB last year and one that gave up 41 to Seattle this year is turnovers. You can look it up.
                    \

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by expatRick View Post
                      I don't think the debate over 3-4 vs 4-3 matters as much as getting a DC who knows how to create turnovers. The biggest reason that the '08 4-3 and the '10 3-4 defenses the Broncos ran were both so bad is that neither created pressure or turnovers. The biggest difference between a Saints D that won a SB last year and one that gave up 41 to Seattle this year is turnovers. You can look it up.
                      Which is why we need a good front 7 in any scheme that tends to be one of the best ways to create turnovers. Ild love to have Keith Butler as a D-coordinator but it would take a lot to steal him from Pit who is #2 in forced turnovers

                      1)NYG (we are talking with there D coordinator along with 2 other former Bills coaches lol)
                      2)Pit
                      3)Chi
                      4)GB
                      5)NE
                      6)STL
                      7)Atl
                      8)Det

                      If Fewell brings over the O-line coach from the Giants I will be ok with this decision. However, I wouldnt say his D is anything out of the ordinary. What really works is a D that can stop others from scoring in the red-zone. Clancy Pendergast was successful in Arizona because he created a D that prevented high red zone efficiency. They didnt cause a lot of turnovers they didnt stop a lot of yards but they protected the house.

                      Joe Collier says a NT is the most vital position in a 3-4 they are the anchor and a team lives or dies with their success like the MLB in many 4-3. Which makes me think do we go after Powell or do we get another band-aide with Soliai and replace him in 4 years with someone like Short when he comes out and is developed. For those that want the 4-3 do we draft Greg Jones and forget about our secondary needs.
                      Last edited by Joshecalpoly; 01-09-2011, 12:52 AM.
                      2016 Draft: http://forums.denverbroncos.com/show...aft-Watch-list

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                      • #86
                        It can't hurt, we gave up over 400 points in the so called 34. Let us look at Dumerville overall numbers


                        2006 8.5 sacks in a 43 defense
                        2007 12. 5 sacks in a 43 defense
                        2008 injury plagued 5 sacks in 43 defense
                        2009 17 sacks in 34 defense


                        So let us stop this fictionious claim that Dumerville was not effective in the 43 defense. Moving to the 43 defense might actually help Robert Ayers.

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Ohenhen12345 View Post
                          It can't hurt, we gave up over 400 points in the so called 34. Let us look at Dumerville overall numbers


                          2006 8.5 sacks in a 43 defense
                          2007 12. 5 sacks in a 43 defense
                          2008 injury plagued 5 sacks in 43 defense
                          2009 17 sacks in 34 defense


                          So let us stop this fictionious claim that Dumerville was not effective in the 43 defense. Moving to the 43 defense might actually help Robert Ayers.
                          Yea but what those stats don't tell is if a team needed a big run they only had to run it doom's side because he could not stop the run
                          sigpic

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                          • #88
                            Originally posted by LSIGRAD09 View Post
                            Wouldn't be opposed. I prefer the 4-3. Our 3 down linemen don't seem to have the strength to stop the run.
                            Or rush the passer!
                            Karl Mecklenburg 77 should be in the HOF!!

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                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post
                              We're the worst defense in the league, it can't get any worse!

                              I think moving back to the 4-3 makes sense for 1 reason, with so many teams switching to a 3-4 there's a much bigger competition for limited players. It's going to be much easier to find players for the 4-3 than it is to find decent 3-4 players.
                              1 would say under this way of thinking we should have stayed with the ZBS for the o-line.

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