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  • Re: Re: Y are some of you so negative?

    Originally posted by luvdembroncs
    That's fine. Many people realize and admit that Q has potential. But he is not ready to be the every down back. A lot of Bronco fans are tired of the spewage that we have been putting up with all summer about Q. He had his shot and struggled. We are proud that he is a Bronco and want him to contribute to the team. He just isn't an every down back though.
    You know, I like Quentin and I've wanted the guy to succeed despite all the Q-homers that were going psycho all offseason and through the preseason. But I just wasn't sure about his ability to break tackles. Now I'm concerned about his lack of ankle breaking moves that I used to think was his main attribute, but that's a side issue.

    When I watched him in the early games this season, there were numerous occasions that a defender got a bit of penetration (blame our O-line if you want) that just tackled Quentin way too easily. I would think to myself, "Damn, if he could just break ONE tackle he'd be off for a good 20 yard run or more!"

    The thing is, Griffin is supposed to be very strong. He had great overall weight lifting stats at the combine. So why isn't it translating onto the football field? I'd be willing to bet that if he starts breaking one-on-one tackles like his workouts say he should be able to, he'll work very well in our "system."

    Are his problems psychological? Or is there some physical reason he's not able to break many tackles in the NFL that counter his pure strength in the weight room?

    Either way, Droughns has that ability to shed the initial tackler, relatively speaking, that Griffin seems to be lacking. I think that is the main difference right now between their success. I don't feel that Droughns has more talent than Quentin, he just has the particular talent that is allowing him to work well with our offense.

    I'll be quite pleased if Quentin figures out how to start breaking a lot more tackles because I think he'll be a greater home run threat than Droughns is. Until then, I'm at least satisfied that Droughns can still get significant chunks of yardage when the opportunity presents itself. Reuben's running is much like his kickoff returns, he probably won't take it to the house very often but he has a great average.
    "You can't take the sky from me..."
    ------
    "You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding"

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    • Re: Re: Re: Y are some of you so negative?

      Originally posted by Javalon
      You know, I like Quentin and I've wanted the guy to succeed despite all the Q-homers that were going psycho all offseason and through the preseason. But I just wasn't sure about his ability to break tackles. Now I'm concerned about his lack of ankle breaking moves that I used to think was his main attribute, but that's a side issue.

      When I watched him in the early games this season, there were numerous occasions that a defender got a bit of penetration (blame our O-line if you want) that just tackled Quentin way too easily. I would think to myself, "Damn, if he could just break ONE tackle he'd be off for a good 20 yard run or more!"

      The thing is, Griffin is supposed to be very strong. He had great overall weight lifting stats at the combine. So why isn't it translating onto the football field? I'd be willing to bet that if he starts breaking one-on-one tackles like his workouts say he should be able to, he'll work very well in our "system."

      Are his problems psychological? Or is there some physical reason he's not able to break many tackles in the NFL that counter his pure strength in the weight room?

      Either way, Droughns has that ability to shed the initial tackler, relatively speaking, that Griffin seems to be lacking. I think that is the main difference right now between their success. I don't feel that Droughns has more talent than Quentin, he just has the particular talent that is allowing him to work well with our offense.

      I'll be quite pleased if Quentin figures out how to start breaking a lot more tackles because I think he'll be a greater home run threat than Droughns is. Until then, I'm at least satisfied that Droughns can still get significant chunks of yardage when the opportunity presents itself. Reuben's running is much like his kickoff returns, he probably won't take it to the house very often but he has a great average.
      Great post Jav, you are very articulate, my hat goes off to you sir. (Well if I wearing a hat.) Very well said.
      John 11: 25-27

      My Adopt-A-Bronco is D.J. Williams



      Thanks Snk16

      Comment


      • Re: Jav

        Originally posted by Black59Razor
        I also initially liked Q...burt at some point you have to call him what he is...to small, and not strong(?) enough to consistently break tackles...

        I think this has just been a case of a good college tailback that is limited in the Pro's...he is a third down back at best....but until he proves he won't fumble, he is not even that...IMO, the Broncos should just move Tatum up to second string, and let Q come in occasionally to catch a screen pass or tow, or run the occasional draw-play...beyond that, his sub-par per-carry-avg says it all...
        Before I reply, great post Jav.

        I think you really have to look at this from both directions. I'm not gonna get in to the labels "for Q" or "against Q". I've been watching football a long time. There is a distinct difference in blocking performance in the last two games from the previous three. I don't know if it's the scheme, or just the fact that the Jags killed us up the middle and San Diego sold out to stop the run. On the other hand, Rueben is running with much more authority that Q. He's stronger, and at this point he looks a lot hungrier. Maybe Q wasn't quite ready to be the workhorse just yet. Maybe we tried too hard to pound him up the middle against defenses that were killing us up the middle. You have to admit, against Jacksonville, it wouldn't have mattered who we ran up the gut. They would have stopped anyone the way our line was being manhandled.
        All that being said, keep giving Rueben the ball. He's earned it. But, let's not give up on Q. He is very talented and I think he'll find his game. I think he has a lot to offer. He's proven that. He just needs to prove he can do it on a regular basis.
        I'm Sooner born and Sooner bred and when I die, I'll be Sooner dead.







        Nebraska's new quarter with the Sooner Schooner running right over the state of Nebraska. A sign of things to come? =)

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        • Re: Re: Jav

          Originally posted by mrsolo
          Before I reply, great post Jav.

          I think you really have to look at this from both directions. I'm not gonna get in to the labels "for Q" or "against Q". I've been watching football a long time. There is a distinct difference in blocking performance in the last two games from the previous three. I don't know if it's the scheme, or just the fact that the Jags killed us up the middle and San Diego sold out to stop the run. On the other hand, Rueben is running with much more authority that Q. He's stronger, and at this point he looks a lot hungrier. Maybe Q wasn't quite ready to be the workhorse just yet. Maybe we tried too hard to pound him up the middle against defenses that were killing us up the middle. You have to admit, against Jacksonville, it wouldn't have mattered who we ran up the gut. They would have stopped anyone the way our line was being manhandled.
          All that being said, keep giving Rueben the ball. He's earned it. But, let's not give up on Q. He is very talented and I think he'll find his game. I think he has a lot to offer. He's proven that. He just needs to prove he can do it on a regular basis.
          Maybe Q isn't workhorse material. Solo from my prespective Griffins goes down way to easy. He doesn't have to break every tackle but honestly when defenders have gotten their hands on him he goes down. I find that distrubing concerning that there has been alot made about how strong the guy is imho that hasn't translated to on field preformance.

          In the home opener he had a great game other than the fumble, but from that point on his ypc dropped off dramatically and fumbles three consecutive game is a killer. A valid arguement can be made that the o-line wasn't opening up holes for him ( which don't entirely agree with) but putting the rock on the ground was the bigger problem.

          I don't agree with you that Q has proven he can be an every down back. Yes he has two very good games but that is not enough to go on in my opinion. All that being said I think he can still be valuable to the team but I don't think it will be as an everydown back.
          John 11: 25-27

          My Adopt-A-Bronco is D.J. Williams



          Thanks Snk16

          Comment


          • Re: Re: Y are some of you so negative?

            Originally posted by luvdembroncs
            That's fine. Many people realize and admit that Q has potential. But he is not ready to be the every down back. A lot of Bronco fans are tired of the spewage that we have been putting up with all summer about Q. He had his shot and struggled. We are proud that he is a Bronco and want him to contribute to the team. He just isn't an every down back though.
            Originally posted by Seto
            Q is big enogh to be an every down back, but he is too young of a RB to do much agianst good Ds. He was overhyped by some REALY stupid OU fans that gave us all a bad name, and that hurt his rep among people that got mad at those people.
            I beleive that Q is an everydown back when the mix of calls and there is blocking just the same as RD, CP or TD. You do not run at the strength of any team. We are not the packers of old that had about 3 plays student body left and right. It was almost a joke they were so good Star would almost come to the line and announce what they were going to do and dare you to try to stop it. We are nt quite on that level in DENVER.

            here are the calls for the JAX game for Q.

            1-10-DEN20 (14:55) Q.Griffin left end to DEN 26 for 6 yards (D.Washington).
            2-4-DEN26 (14:21) Q.Griffin left end to DEN 29 for 3 yards (M.Peterson).
            3-1-DEN29 (13:40) Q.Griffin up the middle to DEN 33 for 4 yards (A.Ayodele).
            ************
            2-3-DEN48 (9;01) Q.Griffin right end to 50 for 2 yards (R.Mathis).
            3-1-50 (8:34) Q.Griffin right tackle to 50 for no gain (R.Meier).
            ***************
            1-10-DEN9 (5:35) Q.Griffin up the middle to DEN 12 for 3 yards (R.Meier).
            2-7-DEN12 (4:58) Q.Griffin left tackle to DEN 19 for 7 yards (D.Smith).
            PENALTY on DEN-D.Neil, Offensive Holding, 6 yards, enforced at DEN 12 - No Play.
            2-13-DEN6 (4:37) Q.Griffin up the middle to DEN 15 for 9 yards (D.Cooper; J.Bolden).
            ****************
            1-10-JAC39 (11.43) J.Plummer pass to Q.Griffin to JAX 27 for 12 yards (R.Mathis).
            1-10-JAC27 (11.02) Q.Griffin up the middle to JAX 25 for 2 yards (A.Ayodele).
            **************************
            -1-DEN45 (1:56) Q.Griffin up the middle to JAX 49 for 6 yards (M.Peterson).
            1-6-JAC6 (:45) Q.Griffin up the middle to JAX 4 for 2 yards
            3-4-JAC4 (:34) Q.Griffin up the middle to JAX 4 for no gain (M.Stroud).
            *****************
            -1-DEN45 (1:56) Q.Griffin up the middle to JAX 49 for 6 yards (M.Peterson).
            1-6-JAC6 (:45) Q.Griffin up the middle to JAX 4 for 2 yards
            3-4-JAC4 (:34) Q.Griffin up the middle to JAX 4 for no gain (M.Stroud).

            *********************************
            1-10-DEN15 (5:55) Q.Griffin right tackle to DEN 21 for 6 yards (D.Darius, L.Barnes).
            2-4-DEN21 (5:18) Q.Griffin up the middle to DEN 19 for -2 yards (J.Henderson).
            1-10-DEN41 (3:44) Q.Griffin left end to DEN 49 for 8 yards (D.Washington).
            2-2-DEN49 (3;05) Q.Griffin left tackle to JAX 43 for 8 yards (D.Darius).
            1-10-JAC34 (1:10) Q.Griffin left tackle to JAX 33 for 1 yard (D.Washington). JJ95 Injured on the play.
            1-10-DEN13 (11:16) Q.Griffin right end to DEN 17 for 4 yards (M.Peterson).
            1-16-DEN7 (10:52) Q.Griffin up the middle to DEN 6 for -1 yards (M.Peterson).
            3-17-DEN6 (10;08) Q.Griffin up the middle to DEN 5 for -1 yards (D.Smith).
            *******************
            3-1-DEN38 (4:16) Q.Griffin up the middle to DEN 36 for -2 yards (W.Blade).

            *******************************
            2-1-JAC26 (1:07) Q.Griffin right end to JAX 24 for 2 yards (D.Cooper).
            2-10-JAC24 (:44) Q.Griffin left tackle to JAX 23 for 1 yard (L.Barnes).


            It does not take a brain surgeon to see the mix was bad:

            14x up the gut into their strength, for 28 yards
            5x off left tackle 17 yards running to our strength
            3x around left END 17 yardsrunning to our strength
            3x around right end 8 yards
            2x off right tackle 8 yards
            one pass 12 yards

            As you can see there was some success early runing Left with a 6, 3, 7 yard gains then late again 8 and again for 8, but in between these were 8 runs up the gut in a row whenever he was given the ball.

            Again to me it is obvious that the play calling was less than desirable.

            No I'm not saying that Mikey was trying to set him up for failure, that would be a stupid thought, and never have I said or insinutated that.

            But the genuis appeared to have a brain fart during this game.

            Comment


            • Re: Re: Re: Y are some of you so negative?

              Originally posted by Jrhampton
              I beleive that Q is an everydown back when the mix of calls and there is blocking just the same as RD, CP or TD.......

              But the genuis appeared to have a brain fart during this game.
              Shanny's best move was promoting a true runner then a lil' tyke.


              Have a question for me? "Ask AO" A Non-Feedback Thread. You'll be glad you did!

              2003, 2009 Fantasy League Champion!
              2006, 2010 Fantasy League Runner-up

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              • Re: Re: Re: Re: Y are some of you so negative?

                Originally posted by AsianOrange
                Shanny's best move was promoting a true runner then a lil' tyke.
                Ouch, AO. Now, just like it was jumping the gun to claim Quentin as a new superstar after the Colts game last year and the Chiefs game this year, so too is it premature to declare Quentin a failure based on just a couple of bad games this year. It could be that he's just having some confidence problems and will run with more authority in the future.
                "You can't take the sky from me..."
                ------
                "You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding"

                Comment


                • I think Q losing his starting job speaks more to the system than Q. The system is designed for a team effort to run the ball. The whole offense is based on the run. Q could be successful, but the offense would have to be specifically designed for him. Like the spread offense Sanders played in(run n gun). Our offense has a totally different philosophy. Our offense works off power and misdirection.

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                  • Re: Re: Re: Jav

                    Originally posted by TXBRONC
                    Maybe Q isn't workhorse material. Solo from my prespective Griffins goes down way to easy. He doesn't have to break every tackle but honestly when defenders have gotten their hands on him he goes down. I find that distrubing concerning that there has been alot made about how strong the guy is imho that hasn't translated to on field preformance.

                    In the home opener he had a great game other than the fumble, but from that point on his ypc dropped off dramatically and fumbles three consecutive game is a killer. A valid arguement can be made that the o-line wasn't opening up holes for him ( which don't entirely agree with) but putting the rock on the ground was the bigger problem.

                    I don't agree with you that Q has proven he can be an every down back. Yes he has two very good games but that is not enough to go on in my opinion. All that being said I think he can still be valuable to the team but I don't think it will be as an everydown back.
                    excellent post . . . Q's two good games came against terrible run defenses . . . you see what happened against legit defenses . . . thank god RD is running like a monster so we can be done with the "Q is another Barry Sanders" crap . . .

                    Comment


                    • Re: Re: Re: Re: Jav

                      Originally posted by duaneok66
                      excellent post . . . Q's two good games came against terrible run defenses . . . you see what happened against legit defenses . . . thank god RD is running like a monster so we can be done with the "Q is another Barry Sanders" crap . . .
                      Are you saying that RD was playing against legit defenses?

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                      • Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Jav

                        Originally posted by Jrhampton
                        Are you saying that RD was playing against legit defenses?
                        In the two games that QG ran against how would you rate them?
                        Last edited by TXBRONC; 10-22-2004, 04:00 PM.
                        John 11: 25-27

                        My Adopt-A-Bronco is D.J. Williams



                        Thanks Snk16

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                        • Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Jav

                          Originally posted by Jrhampton
                          Are you saying that RD was playing against legit defenses?
                          What he is saying in RD is a type of runner that Shanahan wants in the Denver Running System. He fits the type. QG does not.

                          If you would have given RD the ball during the Jacksonville game you would have seen a different score and a more yards in our running column.

                          I cannot believe that you blame Shanahan for staying true to his system that has worked for five years. The system does not change and does not need to. The running back must fit the system. At this time QG does not fit the system. End of story!!!
                          Go Broncos!!! - Hosea 10:12

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                          • Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Jav

                            Originally posted by broncos4ever
                            What he is saying in RD is a type of runner that Shanahan wants in the Denver Running System. He fits the type. QG does not.

                            If you would have given RD the ball during the Jacksonville game you would have seen a different score and a more yards in our running column.

                            I cannot believe that you blame Shanahan for staying true to his system that has worked for five years. The system does not change and does not need to. The running back must fit the system. At this time QG does not fit the system. End of story!!!
                            I don't agree that all of sudden Droughns get to start so Shanahan changes the play calling. Also I don't anyone could put all the blame on the offensive line. Griffin just wasn't getting the job done.
                            John 11: 25-27

                            My Adopt-A-Bronco is D.J. Williams



                            Thanks Snk16

                            Comment


                            • Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Jav

                              Originally posted by TXBRONC
                              I don't agree that all of sudden Droughns get to start so Shanahan changes the play calling. Also I don't anyone could put all the blame on the offensive line. Griffin just wasn't getting the job done.
                              Exactly what I am saying and have been saying after the last two games that QG played in. TX, you and I are on the same page.
                              Go Broncos!!! - Hosea 10:12

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                              • Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Jav

                                Originally posted by broncos4ever
                                Exactly what I am saying and have been saying after the last two games that QG played in. TX, you and I are on the same page.
                                We are most of the time.
                                John 11: 25-27

                                My Adopt-A-Bronco is D.J. Williams



                                Thanks Snk16

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