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For those who criticized the Run 'N' Shoot offense back in the 90's......

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  • #16
    I used to always like using the Atlanta Falcons in Super Tecmo Bowl to make it difficult on teams matching up with my fourth wide out.

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    • #17
      Spread ...

      ... can mean different things in football.

      It can mean the splits between the offensive linemen.

      Today it refers to the whole formation. Formations are important because they dictate: the plays that can be run; and, the way the D lines up.

      For a very long time in football at all levels, the formations had all the backs close to the QB/10. The Z/flanker/40 back was 1x1 yard off either the TE/Y (Wing) or the OT (Slot). It was the NFL that put Z/Flanker/40 back wide to the opposite side of the Split-End/X (Pro) or next to the Split-End/X (Twins). All this was when the QB was under Center and the other backs (i.e., Fullback/20, Tailback/30) were either split or in the I.

      At the same time, colleges were using Wing-T/Flexbone formations (Delaware), Full-I (Maryland), FullHouse-T (Syracuse) and Wishbone (a bunch of teams in the sixties and seventies).

      When pro teams began to put the QB five or six yards behind the LOS in "shotgun", they were borrowing from the Single Wing invented over 100 years ago by "Pop" Warner. At first the Gun formation had the 20/FB and 30/TB on either side of the QB/10. Later they started splitting the 20 or 30 back out for three "wide receivers" (only one of whom was on the LOS). Either the Z/40 or the other back could motion to a new formation. Eventually all the eligible guys were spread out wide leaving the QB by himself in Gun with Draw, End Around, Reverse and Fly Motion Speed Option being the only running plays possible.

      D always lines up on the O, so coaches began to realize that the different spread formations opened up possibilities in the running game as well. Rich Rodriquez and Urban Meyer developed the spread option in college, but I don't know if they invented it or not. I saw it in HS football in the Nineties. College and pro coaches often get ideas from HS coaches. The Spread Option is an adaptation/simplification of the Single Wing. Spread Option can run Triple Option (Give, Keep, Pitch) using the TE/H-Back as the Give option by way of a shovel pass.

      Chris Ault at Nevada puts a RB behind Gun QB and calls it "Pistol". That O combines elements of Wing-T, Triple Option, Spread Option and MidLine Option added to a full passing attack. Single Wing, Spread Option and Pistol are full offenses that can balance running and passing plays. Run and Shoot is more of an all-out passing attack with a limited run dimension except for taking advantage of the spread out D. Run and Shoot features the receivers running choice routes; basically "Get open and if I see you, I'll throw to you". Spread offenses today use specific routes and patterns of routes designed to overload one area of the coverage, or to vacate one area of the coverage.

      The HS HC under whom I worked did a variation of the Pistol by putting two backs in the I behind the Gun QB. He called it Cannon.
      Last edited by samparnell; 02-08-2011, 10:25 AM.
      "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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      • #18
        Originally posted by OrangeCrushinMi View Post
        I used to always like using the Atlanta Falcons in Super Tecmo Bowl to make it difficult on teams matching up with my fourth wide out.
        WOW


        Careful....your age is showing.
        Disclamer: Anything stated by Hippie Guy is meant to be sarcasm and should not be construed as or mistaken for anything serious.

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        • #19
          Denver Gold

          The Denver Gold used it effectively

          This could also be applied to the TT style.
          Waiting to hear from adoption agency

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          • #20
            Originally posted by samparnell View Post
            ... can mean different things in football.

            It can mean the splits between the offensive linemen.

            Today it refers to the whole formation. Formations are important because they dictate: the plays that can be run; and, the way the D lines up.

            For a very long time in football at all levels, the formations had all the backs close to the QB/10. The Z/flanker/40 back was 1x1 yard off either the TE/Y (Wing) or the OT (Slot). It was the NFL that put Z/Flanker/40 back wide to the opposite side of the Split-End/X (Pro) or next to the Split-End/X (Twins). All this was when the QB was under Center and the other backs (i.e., Fullback/20, Tailback/30) were either split or in the I.

            At the same time, colleges were using Wing-T/Flexbone formations (Delaware), Full-I (Maryland), FullHouse-T (Syracuse) and Wishbone (a bunch of teams in the sixties and seventies).

            When pro teams began to put the QB five or six yards behind the LOS in "shotgun", they were borrowing from the Single Wing invented over 100 years ago by "Pop" Warner. At first the Gun formation had the 20/FB and 30/TB on either side of the QB/10. Later they started splitting the 20 or 30 back out for three "wide receivers" (only one of whom was on the LOS). Either the Z/40 or the other back could motion to a new formation. Eventually all the eligible guys were spread out wide leaving the QB by himself in Gun with Draw, End Around, Reverse and Fly Motion Speed Option being the only running plays possible.

            D always lines up on the O, so coaches began to realize that the different spread formations opened up possibilities in the running game as well. Rich Rodriquez and Urban Meyer developed the spread option in college, but I don't know if they invented it or not. I saw it in HS football in the Nineties. College and pro coaches often get ideas from HS coaches. The Spread Option is an adaptation/simplification of the Single Wing. Spread Option can run Triple Option (Give, Keep, Pitch) using the TE/H-Back as the Give option by way of a shovel pass.

            Chris Ault at Nevada puts a RB behind Gun QB and calls it "Pistol". That O combines elements of Wing-T, Triple Option, Spread Option and MidLine Option added to a full passing attack. Single Wing, Spread Option and Pistol are full offenses that can balance running and passing plays. Run and Shoot is more of an all-out passing attack with a limited run dimension except for taking advantage of the spread out D. Run and Shoot features the receivers running choice routes; basically "Get open and if I see you, I'll throw to you". Spread offenses today use specific routes and patterns of routes designed to overload one area of the coverage, or to vacate one area of the coverage.

            The HS HC under whom I worked did a variation of the Pistol by putting two backs in the I behind the Gun QB. He called it Cannon.
            Very informative as always Sam, thanks for the break down.

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            • #21
              I just know using the Run 'n Shoot offense in Super Tecmo Bowl with the Oilers was a lot of fun. Warren Moon to Jefferies for the win. :thumb:

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Hadez View Post
                Hmm this is interesting, I do not remember Moon being very mobile at all.

                I know it was a different offense in college then what Houston ran.

                Looking up Det it does seem they used more mobile QBs. In 89 they had 8 rushing TDs between their two starting QBs. Det also had Berry Sanders so probably was one of the few teams who had more "Run" then "Shoot"

                Altanta used Chris Miller and Jeff George and neither were very mobile imo. They made the playoffs in 91 and 95.

                Apparently the Chargers had a Run and Shoot team in 1991. I am not sure about this...need to talk to my Charger friends. Anyways that year the QB (Friesz) had 11 rushing attempts but the backs were Butts, Bernstein and Harmon....that is a REALLY good collection of backs.

                Also had no idea that Indy was a Run and Shoot team at one time but I think the same obscure article used as a source for the SD Run and Shoot is used as the source for Indy Run and Shoot.
                Warren Moon was a very mobile QB. He was quick, an an extremely accurate passer. Growing up he was my favorite QB after John Elway and I to this day think he deserves much more credit than he has gotten.

                If he could have played his entire career in the NFL he could have gone down as one of the top 10-20 QBs IMO.

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                • #23
                  I assumed the run portion of this offense was geared toward the running back and not the QB. If I remember correctly, Barry Sanders ran for over 2000yds in this offense. I think it's a viable offense and should be brought back. I guess the premise is to spread out the defense with four wideouts which in turn opens up running lanes.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by serpico View Post
                    I assumed the run portion of this offense was geared toward the running back and not the QB. If I remember correctly, Barry Sanders ran for over 2000yds in this offense. I think it's a viable offense and should be brought back. I guess the premise is to spread out the defense with four wideouts which in turn opens up running lanes.
                    I also remember Houston losing a 35 point halftime lead with the run and shoot.......
                    Paroled after 8 long years living in Denver

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                    • #25
                      Which team?

                      Originally posted by serpico View Post
                      I assumed the run portion of this offense was geared toward the running back and not the QB. If I remember correctly, Barry Sanders ran for over 2000yds in this offense. I think it's a viable offense and should be brought back. I guess the premise is to spread out the defense with four wideouts which in turn opens up running lanes.
                      Oklahoma State Cowboys or Detroit Lions?
                      "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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                      • #26
                        Which Houston?

                        Originally posted by TdnDenver View Post
                        I also remember Houston losing a 35 point halftime lead with the run and shoot.......
                        Cougars or Oilers.
                        "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by samparnell View Post
                          Cougars or Oilers.
                          Oilers... The "Frank Reich AFC Championship game"
                          http://bleacherreport.com/articles/5...in-nfl-history

                          How sad....Its where Buddy Ryan punched Kevin Gilbright..... IIRC
                          Paroled after 8 long years living in Denver

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Alastor View Post
                            Why'd they call it a "run and shoot" then? What's the run for?

                            That offense was designed to have a mobile pocket, bootlegs, and to present the opportunity for a quarterback to run or to throw, forcing the defenses to spread out and open up receivers down field.

                            "Run."

                            It's not a reference to the halfback.
                            lol WRONG Lets think about this Warren Moon..not a running qb Jeff George,Chris Miller,Bobby Hebert,Wade Wilson all in Atlanta not running qbs
                            The run and shoot in a nut shell
                            The frequent passing plays run out of this formation tend to spread out the defense's players. 'The Run & Shoot system uses a formation consisting of one running back and between two and four wide receivers. This system makes extensive use of receiver motion (having a receiver suddenly change position by running left or right, parallel to the line of scrimmage, just before the ball is snapped), both to create advantageous mismatches with the opposing defensive players and to help reveal what coverage the defense is using.

                            The basic idea behind the Run & Shoot is a flexible offense that adjusts "on the fly," as the receivers are free to adjust their routes as they are running them in response to the defensive coverage employed. The quarterback, as a result, also has to read and react to the defense's coverages in a more improvised manner than with other offensive systems.If repeated pass plays work, the defense is not as prepared for running plays; running the ball between the offensive tackles, or just off-tackle, is now possible and more likely to succeed."

                            The run does indeed mean the RB did you think they never ran the ball?Barry sanders got a butt load of yards in the run and shoot. The spread is a direct descendant of the run and shoot. Move the QB into shotgun and add a te and the run and shoot is the spread.
                            Last edited by Beagle; 02-09-2011, 03:05 PM.
                            Originally posted by baphamet
                            are you talking career or right now? because i don't see how you can say manning is top 5 even healthy.dude will never be a top 5 QB again, he is done.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Beagle View Post
                              lol WRONG
                              You're a tad late.

                              And by "tad" I mean "Two days."

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by TdnDenver View Post
                                I also remember Houston losing a 35 point halftime lead with the run and shoot.......
                                Oilers did score 38 on the Bills. Their defense fell apart which led to the "D" coordinator getting fired and the next year they hired buddy ryan.
                                Originally posted by samparnell View Post
                                Oklahoma State Cowboys or Detroit Lions?
                                Sanders ran for over 2000 yds with the Lions in the Run 'N' Shoot. With Scott Mitchell, Brett Perriman, Hermin Moore and company.

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