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Tim Tebow Part 4 (Merged)

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  • His footwork and drop backs look much improved.

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    • He got better at inspiring people to create stupid threads like this.
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      • I think this media thing is just another fork in the road for all of us and I hope Tebow proves everyone wrong in the next few weeks. I don't want our backs against the wall at starting QB decisions again

        Elway and Team will be judged by their overall decision which I think is unfair like it wasn't for McDummy and company to be.

        McDummy drafted and traded for his guy, We are now trying to Win with his guys too.
        We are the Organization that " EVERYONE " wants to be a part of


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        • Dear Broncos fans from a Gators fan

          Greetings. I am sorry to start a new thread on Tebow but hopefully if I portray my message properly, it will be clear that this thread is NOT about Tebow vs Orton. This message may get long so I will try to break it up in segments in case you only want to read parts of it. I have been lurking since a few days after Tebow was drafted and really have been reading very frequently since that time.

          Tebow Mania. How did it become this? Are the fanatics legally insane?
          I am a Broncos fan because of Tebow. I understand this makes me not a true Broncos fan. I get it and I understand my role. Furthermore, I certainly am not going to hide my biasis or intentions. I think (well hope) if you read this entire post, you will see that I am rational and as objective as one can be. I went to UF for part of the time that Tebow was there and have always been a "die-hard" Gators fan. I have never rooted for a player as hard as I root for Tim. I have had lots of interactions with people close to the football program (some coaches) and other people that have met or had some sort of relationship with Tebow. Everyone of them has portrayed the same message, everything you hear about Tebow is true. He is that person. I have also had one of his coaches look me in the eye and say that he is the hardest worker and competitor he has ever seen. For every Tebow good will act that is written about or televised, I have heard 10 more similar stories from other people that just never made it way to the media. Truthfully, there are so many more athletes that do this type of stuff and I really wish it made its way to the media more often. For every NFL DUI story there are probably 20 other stories about players helping other people or charities. Unfortunately, thats not what sells.

          I am not going to rehash his college credentials since you know them. I will say this though... when Tebow won the heisman, his passer rating was higher than any other heisman before him. Everybody thinks his running won him the award but his passing ability was worthy by itself. I think part of what started his legend was his toughness. Florida had a QB before him that was a solid passer that never got the credit he deserved. But he wasn't tough and constantly slid before getting the 1st down. Obviously, that drives fans crazy. In high school, its not uncommon that your QB is your most athletic player or toughest player. But never in major college football. Here it was a freshman QB was the toughest player (arguably) on a national championship team. I am sure most of you know the unique role he had on the 2006 national championship team as a backup. Tim was an icon before he ever started a college football game. Then when it was his time as a starter, he just blew up.

          So it didn't take long for the media to learn about his charcter, work ethic, mission trips, leadership, weight room stories, blah, blah, blah. So what does the media do? Talk about it NON STOP for 4 years! Here is an actual quote from the commentator of the 2008 national championship game, "IF you spend 15 minutes with Tebow, you will become a better person". Holy crap! Well how does that make the casual fan fell? Like throwing up. You see the media gushed over him for 4 years and people just got sick of hearing about him. Think Favre. You can only push something on people for so long before a backlash occurs.

          Well of course, UF fans were head over heals. And many other people were too including a lot of non-football fans that just like his message. Finally, a good christian role model who excels on the field and does the right thing. So many people latched on and others hated it. There are many other players like Tebow but they just dont get the exposure. Is that Tim's fault?

          I do believe Tim does like his national exposure though. While the media certainly hypes him up too much but he believes that being a NFL QB is a platform to share his message and make life better for those less fortunate. So he does embrace it.

          Lets get to the fanatics. When I hear people that constantly bash Orton just to push Tebow or people booing Orton, that makes me sad. I don't know who they are but I feel it makes the normal and rational Tebow fans look bad. Unfortunately, every fan base has their bad apples and the vocal minority get heard (just like a city commission meeting). I really get irretateded with the "extremests". What makes me more mad is that is exactly what Tebow does NOT stand for. And what happens is it rubs people the wrong way and makes people not like Tim. I really feel that many people on this board that do not like him, is simply because of these fans. Also, it turns everything into a pissing match with Orton and Tebow where its only bashing the other guy.

          Can Tebow become a great NFL QB
          We have already established my biasis so you know that going in. But I have a perspective that I never hear people talk about. It's sort of my general theory on NFL QB's. There is not a single coach, player, GM, commentator, etc... that comes close to 100% being right on projecting a player from college to the NFL. Look at all the 1st round NFL busts. You just never know. Here is what I always believed, you have to have certain tangibles or abilities. These include: arm strength, accuracy, size (for the most part), etc.. If you don't have these, you will not be a great QB. If you can't throw the ball hard enough or far enough, its just not going to work out. Danny Wuerffel never had adequate arm strength.

          So if you have these traits and they don't have to be top of the line just over a certain barometer, it then comes down to maturity, work ethic, ability to quickly read a defense, competitiveness, and being in the right situation. Many of the 1st round busts in the past, failed simply because they were not willing to put the work in. See Ryan Leaf, Jamarcus Russell, and even Rex Grossman. I look at the successful QB's in the league and they aren't necessary the ones with biggest arms or most accurate but the ones that put in the most effort to become great and they are also competive beyond comprehension. You don't become great and learn to read NFL defenses overnight.

          I think Tebow reaches the barometer with the tangibles. His arm strength is plenty good not elite but solid. I have seen him be very accurate. Most of the time his inaccuracies come when he doesn't set his feet. He does need to improve his accuracy but really its just being more consistent and improving his footwork. I saw all the ESPN highlights the other day of his poor throws against San Diego. First, I think a couple of those "bleacher throws" Merril talked about were balls he was throwing away and the WR was not open. But to my point, the poor throws were a result of him holding onto the ball too long and rushing to get it out.

          I do believe that Tebow will become a great QB because he has the measureables and will put in the work to make himself the best he can be. The only question I have is will he be able to read NFL defenses quickly enough. This is the hardest thing for college QB's to learn. Defenses are faster and there are more sophisticated defensive schemes. No rookie is good at this. This is where he is struggling the most right now. That is where the lock out hurt him the most. You can practice your drop backs and release all you want by yourself. But you can't read a defense unless you get actual reps. Especially since Tebow is dyslexic, watching film and studying the playbook is no where equal to live reps. Also, Tebow is learning an offense that is completely different from his in college. Its going to take time.

          Tebow was always supposed to be a development quarterback. He has been asked to improve his footwork, get better from under center, change his throwing motion, and oh yeah... learn to read an NFL defense. That is a lot to do in 1 year let alone a lock out year! Kyle Orton was not as good as he is today entering his second year. Being an NFL QB is tough. It takes times. Everyone was ready to call Derw Brees a bust including SD who took Rivers until things finally cllicked for Brees. There are so many example of QB's improving after 2, 3, or 4 years. Tom Brady wasn't even good the year he won his 1st superbowl.

          From the few clips that I have seen from Tim so far, it looks like his drop back from under center is way better than last year and his motion has improved. I always thought that his throwing motion was such a cop out for a reason he couldnt make it. It is so over blown and really a lazy analysis if thats your main critigue. Last year he was noticably slow coming out from center but he looks better at that. But the main thing he has to improve is his progressions and reading ability which the lock out really interfered with.

          Here is why I think he will get up to par with that (besides his work ethic). In college, UF ran a very sophisticated running game. Sometimes it was a zone read, other times a tripple option and even shovel pass options. Tim had tons of presnap and postsnap reads he had to make. He exceled in these. Tim may have ran the ball 15 times a game but maybe he was hit 10 other times a game on an option play where a LB decided to obilerate him. There were times where he may have had collisions 3 plays in a row with LB's and defensive lineman and then on the next play would be asked to throw the ball and make reads. Thats a tough assignment. How many other option QB's in college are legitimate passing QB's? Not many because it's really difficult to do both. A of his physical effort and practice effort was put into the running game, now he gets to focus almost exclusively on the passing game. He will improve.

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          • Many people think he looks un natural throwing the ball and I think that is where some doubt comes from.

            1. I think left handers in general look different.
            2. His motion is long
            3. How often do you see the incredible hulk throw the ball. Think about it, if a lb threw a pass, it would just look weird. Its because of the body type and what we are used to in a QB.

            Combine these 3 things and it feels unnatural. But its not.

            I do think its important that a coach buys into Tim and is willing to put the time into his weaknesses. The offense should be tweaked to take advantages of his skill set. That doesnt mean going to a spread option but defintely incorporating some out of the pocket throws.

            B]Should he start this year?[/B]
            My selfish opinion would be of course because the live reps will make him better in the long run. But the Broncos organization owe it to the other players and to the fans to put the best option in there. Orton is a pretty good QB. Oh, by the way I am also a Dolphins fan. You know how many QB's we have gone through since Marino. Too many! Elite QB's are really, really hard to find. Maybe Orton isn't elite yet or maybe he never will be but he certainly is a lot better than a lot of other QB's around the league. Think about it this way... he is one of the top 20 people at what he does in the world. I don't know if Tebow, Quinn, or Orton is the best option but I am sure Fox will pick the guy he thinks (whether his is right or wrong) is the right guy.
            Whoever, that is remember he is a Bronco and he deserves your full support. Don't be like my fellow Dolphins fans. Miami has the worst fans for all sports. I mean that.

            Also, don't sweat over the small stuff like today's scrimmage. Do you really think Tebow is going to be judged by 2 series? They will watch the film and look at the coverage and decide if Tebow had any chance to make a play or not. They do 11 on 11's every practice from what I hear. Todays scrimmage is no more important than any other practice. Who care's if he went against the 1's. The coaches know that. The actual preseason games will be more important anyway.

            I always thought that Tebow deserved to be a 1st round pick for a few reasons. Some of the criticism on him is non-sense and overblown. Some analysts just piggy back off of other people. And some just make crap up. I am not kidding, I can't tell you how many analysts pre-draft said he had inadequate arm strength and was terrible at the deep ball. It takes all QB's time to learn the pro game. Todd Mcshay said he would never take a player in the 1st 2 rounds that couldn't start immediately. This year he said he loved the Jaguars taking Blaine Gabbert because he would be able to sit a year or two and learn from David Garrard. WOW! There are legitimate concerns dont get me wrong but be conistent. Tebow may never be great or maybe he will be but he will do everything in his power to be the best he can. If he doesn't start, I really hope he gets used in goal line situations. He really is an absolute weopon because of his skill set here. Most running QB's are fast but Tebow can run between the tackles. If its just him and a lb one on one, he will score. He may not run over the LB but he will fall forward. Using him here allows the offense to gain an extra blocker. But unlike a regular wildcat, he is a real passing option. He could do this for the next 10 years and be a big asset to a team without starting. I thought Mcdaniels messed around too much by doing this at midfield. Its really best for redzone and short yardage. Also, how many defenses prepare for the option. You can waste a lot of opponents practice time by making them prepare for it even if its only done a couple of times a game. His freshman year, he was such an energetic boost for the team and fans when he would come in for those situations.

            Is there something to being a practice player vs gamer?
            Of course. But its not like Orton just sucks in games. He has his shortcomings but it could be a lot worse. Remember how the Studsville said last year that Tebow could never make the throw in practice but they decided to run it anyway in the second half of the Texans game. It resulted in a long completion to Gaffney. I think the reason the game plans were so conservative in those 3 games is because Tebow was limited in practice.

            I went to a UF coaching clinic before the 2007 season (Tebow's 1st year as a starter. The UF offensive coordinator told us that Chris Leak would do a great job on this one particular pass play but Tebow would always throw it to the one guy at practice and wasn't making the right read at practice. My friend told me after the clinic that he was concerned Tebow would not be a good QB. The next year he accounted for 55 TD's in 13 games the most in the history of the SEC.

            There is more to the Cam Newton story than what is told in the media. It has been said by some former UF players and people in the know that John Brantley has all the tools and could be the best pro prospect and passer in UF history. It was also reported that Tebow said when he left UF that John was as good as he was. Well all that was seen from him was a few garbage reps in a few games and mostly practice. John looked so good in practice that as a freshman he was 2nd string behind Tebow. He beat out Newton who was a year older than him and tailor made for our offense. So he beat out the number 1 pick and future heisman winner and supposively was as good as Tebow. Well last year we got to see the long awaited results of Brantley. And it was God awful. Something changes when the red shirt comes off. It wasn't all his fault as the OL and WR's had problems. The OC was not good and the system was not suited for his skill set but he was flat out terrible. It's funny what happens on game day. Why is it that 3 NFL coaches think that Alex Smith is their best option? I bet he looks great at practice.

            This isn't meant as pro Tebow anti-Orton. I do believe practice matters and that you have to be able to show you can play in practice. You don't magically become great once the game starts and suck at practice. But there definitely is something to be said about being a "gamer".

            My last story. I met Josh Mcdaniels several years ago at a UF practice. I was the secuirty guard for the practices at that time when I was a student. He had a pass to go out on the field. He was young so I asked him if he was a scout? He was nice and said he got that all the time but was actually the NE QB coach. This practice was pre Tebow.

            I'm sorry for the novel. Go Broncos. I am too invested now and will be rooting for you guys regardless of who is QB.

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            • tl;dr.....
              Science Bless

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              • Good stuff I'm hopin Tebow starts right along side ya ...but I am a Broncos fan not a Tebow fan, I just think he's best for our team right now...plus anything but Orton, we disagree there but I'm tellin you McD did that to his stats not Orton..

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                • Very nice commentary. I could not agree more. Thank you for taking the time to post that.

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                  • That's a great post.

                    And you make very valid points while being considerably respectful of all possible audiences.

                    Refreshing insights from someone who obviously has a unique perspective. I'm posting this to my blog.

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                    • Interesting information, thanks for posting.

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                      • Originally posted by combo-breaker View Post
                        tl;dr.....
                        Too bad, it was a very good read, I would reconsider if I was you
                        Adopt-A-Bronco 2011. Kevin Vickerson

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                        • Colt McCoy - Tebow: who's better?(espn article)

                          Does anyone here think McCoy is better than Tebow?
                          Weaker arm, not as good runner.. yet he gets a free pass

                          THREE HOT ISSUES
                          http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/pos...eveland-browns
                          Colt McCoy
                          Colt McCoy has solid intangibles, but it's questionable whether he has the size and arm strength to succeed.
                          1. Is QB Colt McCoy the long-term solution?

                          It's unfair to judge a player on one week of practice. But I paid a lot of attention to McCoy this week, and I have some concerns.

                          The second-year quarterback was inconsistent. On Tuesday, McCoy had a poor practice. On Friday, he was better. There is a good chance that this is what you'll see from McCoy during the regular season.

                          McCoy has only eight starts under his belt. He is essentially halfway into his rookie year. He's also learning his second offense in two years.

                          Although McCoy isn't making excuses, expect some growing pains.

                          "You come out here and you have to be ready to play," McCoy said. "I feel like I'm in good shape. I felt like the guys around me -- offensive line, receivers, running backs -- I feel like overall everybody was in good shape and ready to work. For me, that's good. I need all the work I can get."

                          McCoy has intangibles and natural leadership ability. But no NFL quarterback wins on intangibles alone. McCoy's size and arm strength are two question marks he must overcome.

                          The Browns are "all in" with McCoy this year. If he has a solid season, the Browns could exceed expectations. But if McCoy falls apart, it could be another long season in Cleveland.
                          I'm kind of like a big deal... sort of like a superhero.

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                          • I wanted McCoy in the draft. He's a guy I really liked coming out of college. My opinion of him hasn't changed.

                            He isn't going to wow you with his arm or his size but I think he can overcome it. He's one of the most accurate passers I've seen coming out of college, he's smart with the football, and he is a WINNER. His lack of a big arm is fine since he is still able to throw a long ball with decent accuracy but just don't expect him to throw the a good ball of his back foot to a receiver 50 yards down the field. Right now he is in the perfect system (WCO), and I think he can be really effective as long as he keeps his passes within about 30 yards.

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                            • He gets a free pass because he doesnt have the "Hype Express Followers" that Tebow has. Switch the roles and it is the same scenario. Also, Cleveland doesnt have a serviceable QB like we have to cause a QB controversy.

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                              • I thought McCoy was gonna be the guy Denver drafted in the second or third round. I really like him. With the browns his rookie season he performed pretty well despite his numbers. 8/9 ints he threw were against the ravens and Steelers. His debut game against the Steelers was better than I thought he would do. I know the browns didn't have much offense talent to help him outside of hillis idk what they added this year since I dont really pay attention to them but I haven't heard there names mentioned much actually not at all this off season. Hopefully cleavland sets him up for success.

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