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Tim Tebow Part 4 (Merged)

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  • Brandon Lloyd is a "company man" though, he goes which ever way the wind blows. I'll take Champ Baileys word and Royal as well as Steve Young and Tom Gruden. Elway of all people should understand. People bring up technique and mechanics but imo the only stat that counts is wins. I'm not a Vince Young fanboy but he brought something to the table in Tennessee that helped them win games. While it wasn't pretty, he always got the job done in the 4th qrt. Who cares if a guy takes off for a 39 yard scramble on 3rd and 15 to set up the game winning fg, either way 39 yards is 39 yards no matter if its a pass or a run or a pretty pass from a ugly release.........the ball was moved from point A to point B effectively. Tebow moves the chains mo matter how ugly it is and gave a chance to win some games in ways we couldn't through out the season.

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    • As woody wrote in the DP today:

      "Orton did struggle inside the 20 last year to get touchdowns, and Tebow produced eight touchdowns in 10 trips inside the 20 when he played."

      Tebow managed to be better in the red zone, better in the 4th Q, and better scoring first half points. Or, as Woody goes on to add:

      "This is Orton's seventh training camp. Of course he was going to look better in camp than Tebow. Veteran Steve DeBerg looked so much better than a young John Elway in camp. And, as I've said from the very beginning, and nobody seems to pay attention, what Tebow does in practices will never be as good as his game-time play. You can't script all the amazing things Tebow can do. Orton is good with a script as long as nobody is rushing him, and it's not third-and-4, and there's no blitz."

      http://www.denverpost.com/woodysmailbag/ci_18656409

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      • Originally posted by Zoneblock249 View Post
        Brandon Lloyd is a "company man" though, he goes which ever way the wind blows. I'll take Champ Baileys word and Royal as well as Steve Young and Tom Gruden. Elway of all people should understand.
        Who is this guru Tom you speak of?


        J/K dude...

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        • Originally posted by fraguela09 View Post
          "Orton did struggle inside the 20 last year to get touchdowns..."
          Huh?

          Inside the 20 last season, Orton threw 13 of his 20 TDs, had ZERO picks, and a passer rating of 91.5.

          That's "struggling?"

          By comparison, Tebow had 3 TD passes, one pick, and a passer rating of 39.6.
          Last edited by neckbeard; 08-11-2011, 07:26 AM.
          "That's a crap question."
          - Kyle Orton

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Alastor View Post
            I wasn't aware of that. Can you get me the article you got that from? I seem to recall trade rumors floating pretty early last season.



            Yeah, it kind of is. They had almost a full year to decide whether or not they were actually going to do it or not, and they did get him a new fatty contract so it at least shows that they were trying to take care of him in some regard, no?



            We also don't know that. We have no way of knowing which teams were interested, what the offers made were, or who or what actually transpired during those talks.

            I dunno. I guess I'm missing the psychic powers or crystal balls a lot of people have that they're making their statements of fact from.



            All of this is irrelevant anyway however. Even when we were trying to hang on to Cutler, after the Broncos saw there was no way to keep him it was a whoppin' three days (if even that long) before he was getting off of a plane in Chicago.

            Once a team sees it needs to make a trade, things can happen very quickly. Having just gone through what we did with Cutler, and given the nature of the history of this team, it's no surprise to me that a player that says he wants a trade gets it, and that the team would move quickly to help make that happen.

            I think it's disingenuous to read into that as some sort of indication that they wanted or didn't want any given player. It's the nature of the game and a reality of practical application in football that if you're going to trade someone, you do it fast. That's in everyone's best interests.

            It's a stretch to read into any such circumstances, especially one we know so little about and that took so long to develop.
            That's because teams wanted Cutler.

            Teams traded for Tavaris Jackson, Donavan McNabb, and Kevin Kolb. No one traded for Orton. Look at what Arizona gave up for Kolb, and the contract they gave him. Miami wasn't willing to come close to that.

            I guess I'm missing the crystal ball that says "The Broncos still were committed to Orton although they tried desperately to trade him once the season started". Seems like missing crystal balls is the thing to do right now.

            If Denver was committed to Orton long term last season, would they give him a one year deal? Why is it "disingenous" to assume Denver wanted to trade Orton when THE TEAM OFFICIALLY STATED THEY WANTED TO TRADE HIM?

            http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_18549001

            http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d...-way-for-tebow

            There's a ton more if you need them. My crystal ball seems to be broken as you pointed out, but Google fortunately is working just fine

            Comment


            • Originally posted by neckbeard View Post
              Huh?

              Inside the 20 last season, Orton threw 13 of his 20 TDs, had ZERO picks, and a passer rating of 91.5.

              That's "struggling?"

              I'll take Woody's words over yours. The issue is... How many RZ attempts compared with how many times DEN scored 6. I would hope that... Orton would compile 13 TDs over the course of 13 games. BUT, scoring 1 time a game is good enough for you. There's the problem.

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              • OK, so after watching the August 9th practice footage (thanks Uninspecter) I do think that the coaching staff is following an identified plan w/ Tim.

                Why? Because if you watch the 2nd video you will see 2 plays right away. The first looks like a normal pass play w/ a normal drop & there is a rusher coming free up the middle. It is designed that way, and it a called shuttle pass. Sound familiar? Only thing missing was Aaron Hernandez.

                Next play was a designed QB read off the right end. Plus, I've read that they have been installing some more Read Option plays when Tim is in there. I think they might get the hint that Tim needs to be something different....this is a good sign IMO.

                John Fox is probably reluctant to change his offensive game plan. I'm totally guessing here, but old coaches who have had success one way in the past can be hard to come around to new ideas/schemes.

                As the Bellamy Brothers famously sang, "He's an old hippy (substitute coach) & he don't know what to do. Should he hang on to the old or grab on to the new?....He's not trying to change nobody, he's just trying real hard to adjust."

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                • Tebow reminds me of watching a shortstop range far to the left, dive behind 2nd to come up with a grounder, then fire a strike to just nip the base runner for the out...Then on the next play watch a ground ball go through his legs.

                  When he can learn to do the routine consistently in addition to doing the amazing, then and only then should he be a QB.
                  Ravens GM 2016 - Ravens are looking to trade down 4-8 spots

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                  • I can't believe kizla wrote that lol

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                    • I agree with this 100%. I understand wanting Tebow to learn all of the techniques of being a "pocket passer" but man you just gotta let the kid play. Let him make plays, let him gunsling, and let him lead.

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                      • Originally posted by neckbeard View Post
                        Huh?

                        Inside the 20 last season, Orton threw 13 of his 20 TDs, had ZERO picks, and a passer rating of 91.5.

                        That's "struggling?"

                        By comparison, Tebow had 3 TD passes, one pick, and a passer rating of 39.6.
                        Those are useless stats in this conversation. The fact that Orton threw 13 redzone TDs doesn't mean he didn't struggle in the redzone. That's like me saying Kyle struggled on 3rd down, and you saying Kyle converted on 20 3rd down conversions. Who cares? If it's 20 out of 130 then his 3rd down percentage is 15%. That's struggling.

                        Redzone percentage would do a better job of saying whether Kyle struggled in the redzone. That would be those 13 TDs divided by the number of times in the redzone. I guarantee you we were in the redzone A LOT more than 13 times. I believe Orton's redzone percentage matches his 3rd down percentage, which we've discussed before, and is horrible.

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                        • Originally posted by fraguela09 View Post
                          As woody wrote in the DP today:

                          "Orton did struggle inside the 20 last year to get touchdowns, and Tebow produced eight touchdowns in 10 trips inside the 20 when he played."

                          http://www.denverpost.com/woodysmailbag/ci_18656409
                          Problem is, Tebow scored 4 of those TDs after Orton got them inside the 3 yard line. Who got credit for that? Tim. I have no doubt Tebow is more efficient inside the 5 yard line than Orton...but a strong running game negates that.

                          Clinton Portis made Jake a much better redzone QB, 15 TDs from a RB tends to do that.
                          Ravens GM 2016 - Ravens are looking to trade down 4-8 spots

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by PowderAddict View Post
                            That's because teams wanted Cutler.

                            Teams traded for Tavaris Jackson, Donavan McNabb, and Kevin Kolb. No one traded for Orton. Look at what Arizona gave up for Kolb, and the contract they gave him. Miami wasn't willing to come close to that.

                            I guess I'm missing the crystal ball that says "The Broncos still were committed to Orton although they tried desperately to trade him once the season started". Seems like missing crystal balls is the thing to do right now.

                            If Denver was committed to Orton long term last season, would they give him a one year deal? Why is it "disingenous" to assume Denver wanted to trade Orton when THE TEAM OFFICIALLY STATED THEY WANTED TO TRADE HIM?

                            http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_18549001

                            http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d...-way-for-tebow

                            There's a ton more if you need them. My crystal ball seems to be broken as you pointed out, but Google fortunately is working just fine
                            The only crystal balls I see being used are those that say Tebow could never be an NFL QB over a 16 game season.

                            There are no facts that actually prove that. I mean, to be the actual highest rated rookie and to see how his numbers projected over 16 games, actually suggest he can thrive as a starter.

                            But, he throws incomplete passes in practice, and he also threw them in some games last year. So, there is the proof. I suppose.

                            The media repeats over and over and over again to the point where people start believing it, despite what we saw with our own eyes.

                            Nope. I mean a guy like Freeman whose first 2 games he threw 5 ints in the first one and 3 in the second with no TDs. Or Sanchez's career 70 rating with 29 TDs and 33 ints, or Cutler's pathetic display is all met with coddling excuses. Yeah, no double standard.

                            Fallacies, and irrelvancies and biased opinions.......persuade many people.

                            One thing is for sure, there has never been more irrational attacks on a player and double standard exaggerations made about one's ability.

                            Makes you wonder why they are so passionate in their insistence. Real mystery isnt it?

                            The only thing I have ever maintained is I dont know how we he would do. I also maintain that I pretty much know what Orton and Quinn would do. How do I know? I am sure they could tell me if they REALLY thought about it.

                            But Hoge knows QBs and coaches and GMs never make mistakes about their analysis and Elway is simply perfect.

                            Who is irrational?

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                            • Originally posted by MHSalute View Post
                              Problem is, Tebow scored 4 of those TDs after Orton got them inside the 3 yard line. Who got credit for that? Tim. I have no doubt Tebow is more efficient inside the 5 yard line than Orton...but a strong running game negates that.

                              Clinton Portis made Jake a much better redzone QB, 15 TDs from a RB tends to do that.

                              I agree with this... for sure. I think our new TEs and Franklin, and McGahee will all help Orton (or Tebow) in the RZ and everywhere else.

                              Now we will focus on trying to run the ball, and we'll have TEs who can catch out there as safety valves and outlets for our QBs.

                              This should all help.

                              Let's not forget how Cutler struggled in the red zone at times in 2007 and especially in 2008.

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                              • Tebow's throwing motion improving

                                So after watching numerous training camp videos I have noticed that Tebow's throwing motion has improved throughout training camp. ESPN released a video that really shows how much more compact it is than from last year and even the start of this training camp. Here is the link.

                                http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=6839173

                                If you notice he is not dropping the ball at all when he goes to throw. Instead of dropping it he just takes it straight back to behind his ear. His motion looks much better and more compact. His windup is pretty much gone. I must say the QB coach is doing a good job with him as I see a steady improvement with Tebow and his mechanics throughout camp.

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