Tim Tebow Part 4 (Merged)

[BroncoKing]

first of all there were no facts in your argument and I'm not running away from anything.

Because you say this does not make it so! I have stated why he's not ready and all you have thrown out is that "I didn't watch the game" and thus dismissing the argument in general. That is running away from an argument.

But it's obvious that you are basing your opinions off of a radio broadcast instead of actual game footage.

What makes you think I didn't watch highlights of the game?

you stated that Tebow did not get into the end zone on that drive. That is FALSE! He did score a rushing touchdown but it was negated due to a penalty. He crossed the goal line which you said was not the case. I agree we did have to settle for a FG nonetheless.

Here is where we agree. Since we had to settle for 3 points, Tebow DID NOT score a TD. Does not matter if he "scored" on the play with the holding penalty. It does not count. I fully understand that.

How can you say that I am double speaking and attempt to discredit my opinion when you admitted you didn't watch the game?

You said Tebow "put up six points which should've been 10 and Orton put out zero." That is double speak! You are crediting Tebow for 6 of the 9 points when Orton led us to the first 3 points. By discrediting Orton's drive that got the first three but crediting Tebow with 6 points that is the classic definition of double speak

The reason I keep saying that is because although you say "anyone with eyes could see it", how can you if all you did was listen to the radio?

I'm going to let you figure that one out.

[quoteAnd for the record I did go back and edit my post Orton did lead the offense to a FG in the opening drive, so I admit I made a mistake. That still doesn't mean I double spoke. I just simply made a mistake.[/QUOTE]

At first it was double speak so there :p

[Buckin' Bronco]

Get of your high horse. Orton had one drive and led the team to three points. He looked decent. It was only one drive though and it produced points.

Tebow had one nice pass. The rest of the game he looked lost. I can't stand how he can't make a second read. As soon as the ball is snapped he locks onto one wr the whole time. If that guy isn't open he scrambles. Sometimes it is a benefit but to be successful in this league you must be able to pass from the pocket. Something Tebow needs work on.

The blind homerism in these boards is so annoying. Both qbs played ok. It was a small sample size. Orton played just as well as Tebow. Tebow played just as well as Orton. No one really separated themselves.

As it stands right now, Orton has the respect and confidence of the locker room. That's all that matters. His teammates want him to start. I would think they would know whats best for the team. At least they would know a lot more than some tebow fanboy.

I'm not on my high horse and all. Orton was the one that checked to the fade route on first and goal at the one. The mistake is on him and him alone. At what point during that game did Tebow look lost? Any examples? How can Tebow make you read if he only has 2 seconds to set his feet and looked downfield before the rush is all over him. Orton had way more time to throw the ball then Tebow and anyone who watched the game will tell you the same thing. Yes we all agree that Tebow needs to become a better pocket passer, but Tebow had no choice to scramble with that blocking. Despite all this he still made more plays, put up more points, looked more consistent than Orton. How anyone can say they looked even is beyond me. Orton was 2/6 37 yards. Tebow was 6/7 91 with a 118 QB rating. Tebow had the better night even though he got absolutely mauled the first drive.

[SoundsOfSuccess]

all of the sudden a second year player that has only started 3 games is nit picked to the point of how he makes his reads, throwing motion and Wat ever distractions you can pin on him. Im not sure we have a lot of depth in our back up o-line and when TT went against our 1rst defense with our 2nd O-line in the scrimmage it was pretty bad. tebow did great Thursday night and just think he had a TD taken away. Once again Orton is having a good camp just like last year. 3 and 10 is not going to get is done. not sure Orton is going to take us to the next level. Orton will start this season and hopefully his trade value will improve. poeple seem to forget that the team is trying to win now and because time is short we will have to wait for them to groom Tebow this off season.

if Denver intends on trading Orton it will be before week 6.

He's a UFA after this season.

[JW7]

I'm not on my high horse and all. Orton was the one that checked to the fade route on first and goal at the one. The mistake is on him and him alone. At one point during that game did Tebow look lost? Any examples? How can Tebow make you read if he only has 2 seconds to set his feet and looked downfield before the rush is all over him. Orton had way more time to throw the ball then Tebow and anyone who watched the game will tell you the same thing. Yes we all agree that Tebow needs to become a better pocket passer, but Tebow had no choice to scramble with that blocking. Despite all this he still made more plays, put up more points, looked more consistent than Orton. How anyone can say they looked even is beyond me. Orton was 2/6 37 yards. Tebow was 6/7 91 with a 118 QB rating. Tebow had the better night even though he got absolutely mauled the first drive.

Orton had one drive!!!!! Stop saying Tebow put up more points! It is completely irrelevant.

Yes Orton did have more time. When Tebow did have time though, he locked onto one option. That's not gonna cut it in this league.

Yes, Tebows stat line is better. He had more playing time. I watched the game and Tebow did not look as good as his stat line. An example is that screen pass to I think gronkowski. It went for a long gain but Tebow had a very poor throw that easily could have gone over his head. It's a simple screen pass and he looked shaky doing it.

As I said before the only thing that matters is what the players on the team think. There have been several reports that the locker room prefers Orton. They prefer him because he gives us the best chance to win. That's what I want to see.

[Buckin' Bronco]

Because you say this does not make it so! I have stated why he's not ready and all you have thrown out is that "I didn't watch the game" and thus dismissing the argument in general. That is running away from an argument.



What makes you think I didn't watch highlights of the game?



Here is where we agree. Since we had to settle for 3 points, Tebow DID NOT score a TD. Does not matter if he "scored" on the play with the holding penalty. It does not count. I fully understand that.



You said Tebow "put up six points which should've been 10 and Orton put out zero." That is double speak! You are crediting Tebow for 6 of the 9 points when Orton led us to the first 3 points. By discrediting Orton's drive that got the first three but crediting Tebow with 6 points that is the classic definition of double speak



I'm going to let you figure that one out.

[quoteAnd for the record I did go back and edit my post Orton did lead the offense to a FG in the opening drive, so I admit I made a mistake. That still doesn't mean I double spoke. I just simply made a mistake.

At first it was double speak so there :p[/QUOTE]

how can you present a factual argument based off of a radio broadcast and watching highlights of the game? You can't. what you watched in those highlights, if that's what you did, was only a small portion of the game. I watched every snap of that game even the third stringers in the fourth quarter. I would consider the argument more valid had you actually watch the game instead of highlights. That's like trying to run for Congress after being class president in middle school, it ain't happening Pal.

[Broncos-R-Great]

Yea, I believe it. Name one thing Fox or Elway has done to prove otherwise. I'm looking forward to your response. If you believe that John Fox is all in with Tim Tebow, how'd you like to buy a bridge in...John Fox will outlast Tim Tebow in Denver, no question about it. I honestly can't believe that people like yourself think that a conservative coach like John Fox and a legendary QB like Elway are tied to the hip with a project QB that they didn't draft and is deficient in QB skills. You're free to believe what you want, however, just as I am.

The transition from Orton to McCoy would have been much easier than the transition from Orton to Tebow. Tebow and Orton couldn't be different, but McCoy is more a traditional QB than Tebow is. It would have been easier for him to step in without having the whole system to have to change to suit his playing style.

This FO wouldn't be anymore behind McCoy than they are behind Tebow had he been drafted here, you're kidding yourself if you believe otherwise. McCoy had plenty of concerns as to his ability to be an NFL QB coming out of college, he wasn't a top prospect last year (similar to Tebow).

In the end he fell into the perfect situation with the perfect offense, had he come here it would've been the worst possible situation for him.

[BroncoKing]

how can you present a factual argument based off of a radio broadcast and watching highlights of the game?

You can learn a lot by watching highlights without commentary. Trust me....I learn far more from watching myself on film with the sound muted so I don't get the crowd's reaction (I'm a sports ref).

You can't.

Bull.

what you watched in those highlights, if that's what you did was only a small portion of the game.

What's your point? A small portion of the game is all Tebow played in.

I watched every snap of that game even the third stringers in the fourth quarter. I would consider the argument more valid had you actually watch the game instead of highlights. That's like trying to run for Congress after being class president in middle school, it ain't happening Pal.

This line is really getting old. You only throw that out when you have nothing to say. Why don't you try refuting the argument instead of resorting to this? All you have done is thrown out stat lines instead of actually looking at the play itself. Stats can be very misleading. Remember that.

[Buckin' Bronco]

Orton had one drive!!!!! Stop saying Tebow put up more points! It is completely irrelevant.

Yes Orton did have more time. When Tebow did have time though, he locked onto one option. That's not gonna cut it in this league.

Yes, Tebows stat line is better. He had more playing time. I watched the game and Tebow did not look as good as his stat line. An example is that screen pass to I think gronkowski. It went for a long gain but Tebow had a very poor throw that easily could have gone over his head. It's a simple screen pass and he looked shaky doing it.

As I said before the only thing that matters is what the players on the team think. There have been several reports that the locker room prefers Orton. They prefer him because he gives us the best chance to win. That's what I want to see.

first of all it is relevant because that's what happened and it's a fact!

I didn't see him walk on the receiver at all? If you have an example please let me hear it. The pass to was a beauty. He also hit a few darts over the middle.

They could've gone over his head but it didn't. Tebow to the pass and Gronk made the play. Like I've said earlier in this thread it wasn't pretty but it was productive.

[Junitz23]

Because Orton is going to be 30 next year and hes never been in a
playoff game.

[Bradshaw3001]

Colt McCoy is a good player and a good Christian guy, but he never has been able to take a hit. If his line can keep him healthy, he may turn out to be great.

What does being a "good Christian guy" have to do with anything? A scumbag makes just as good QBs as a goodie-two-shoes. To wit: Brett Favre, Ken Stabler, Joe Namath, Ben Roethlisberger, etc.

Just leave religion and politics out of it... this is part of the reason there is such Tebow backlash around these parts.

[JW7]

first of all it is relevant because that's what happened and it's a fact!

I didn't see him walk on the receiver at all? If you have an example please let me hear it. The pass to was a beauty. He also hit a few darts over the middle.

They could've gone over his head but it didn't. Tebow to the pass and Gronk made the play. Like I've said earlier in this thread it wasn't pretty but it was productive.

Tebow is god. Can do nothing wrong. He is perfect.

[Buckin' Bronco]

You can learn a lot by watching highlights without commentary. Trust me....I learn far more from watching myself on film with the sound muted so I don't get the crowd's reaction (I'm a sports ref).



Bull.



What's your point? A small portion of the game is all Tebow played in.



This line is really getting old. You only throw that out when you have nothing to say. Why don't you try refuting the argument instead of resorting to this? All you have done is thrown out stat lines instead of actually looking at the play itself. Stats can be very misleading. Remember that.

that's your personal preference if you learn from highlights without sound. You cannot claim that as fact. You may be a sports ref, but that is completely irrelevant when evaluating QB play. What sport? Is it at the Pro level? These things make a difference. Highlights are small portion of a larger whole, they are altered to reflect certain things. big plays, turnovers, etc. they do not give you an accurate or complete picture of the drive or game. I keep stating that because mine and your opinion are vastly different for an obvious reason, you did not watch the same material that I did. That's simple.

[Thors Hammer]

So we're going to get all bent out of shape after a couple of drives in the first preseason game of the year?

Did we all forget about the comeback win against the Texans?

[Buckin' Bronco]

Tebow is god. Can do nothing wrong. He is perfect.

where did I say that? I've even acknowledged that Orton is a better pocket passer than Tebow. He did make some mistakes, he skipped a screen pass off the ground pretty badly. Just because I think Tebow played better than Orton, suddenly that means I think he is a God? come on dude, get out of here with that garbage.

[BroncoKing]

that's your personal preference if you learn from highlights without sound. You cannot claim that as fact.

One learns how to break down film. I have done it for football and basketball. Heck....even during live action, when I'm there in person, I tell my friends precisely what teams need to do and have been right most of the time. It is not difficult and I have been doing this for most of my life.

You may be a sports ref, but that is completely irrelevant when evaluating QB play. What sport? Is it at the Pro level?

Basketball and Soccer and no not at the pro level.

These things make a difference. Highlights are small portion of a larger whole, they are altered to reflect certain things. big plays, turnovers, etc.

Exactly...they are called highlights for a reason. Breaking down the highlights shows what needs to be worked on.

they do not give you an accurate or complete picture of the drive or game. I keep stating that because mine and your opinion are vastly different for an obvious reason, you did not watch the same material that I did. That's simple.

:paper: