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  • Originally posted by CoryWinget81 View Post
    I'm discussing what I initially saw. My opinion or his opinion or your opinion, according to the quoted posts are all inherently wrong then. If none of us know what we're talking about, then why are we talking?

    I saw WR's open downfield. I saw Tebow taking off after he looked in one direction. I saw him tuck the ball and start looking to pick his way through the defensive secondary. I have two eyes and an HD television. :shrug:

    Oh, and in response to your other post about comparing Elway and Tebow, thats exactly what he was doing and being a smart ass about it.

    Compare their first three games, thats fine. Different QB, different coaches, different scheme, different era. There's no comparison.
    But I'm saying you didn't see squat without the film. You know how I know that? Because you can't see squat.

    I'm not saying none of us know what we're talking about. I'm saying there are some things that you can't see enough of. One is routes and coverage. You can see the O-line and D-line just fine. But you need the big picture that film gives you to see what's going on, and you need to know what play is being called so you know what the reads are. You can't criticize someone for missing their 5th read if they didn't have time to get to their 3rd read, can you?

    You also can't criticize a QB for looking at an initial read of a deep route with a safety over the top, coming off of that route and going to his 2nd read. In the end, my point is that we don't know what happened on that play. So how can you criticize someone over with an all-encompassing, "they can't read defenses" assessment?

    I'm just pointing out that you're assuming things that you can't really know right now. You can assume, but that's what it is. It's an assumption. Even when you get Ron Jaworski getting film on there and showing you things, that's a few isolated plays. Again, it tells me, personally, nothing about a player's overall body of work. It just shows me 2 plays. Great. :clap:
    Last edited by Crazy8; 08-15-2011, 07:00 AM.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by thenewera44 View Post
      What I find hilarious is how the media is now all slobbering on Cam Newton. Mike Greenberg just said he is nearly breathless by what he saw. John Clayton just said Newton was "spot on" with his throws. He said it is so obvious he is ready to be the starter.

      Let me clarify.

      Newton was 8 for 19. He 0 for 6 on 3rd down. They made excuses that 2 passes were dropped for him.

      Now, compare that with what they say about Tebow and his decent showing in preseason. I remember at least one pass dropped. His completion% was very good in pre-season.

      I wish I was as blind as others as to what is happening and the reason behind the blatant double standard. Hell, it is so obvious about what they are doing, that even if I was blind, I would see what is happening.
      This is not really disagreement, but I think Cam Newton is looking really good.

      The double standard comes in with Tebow. People seem to notice every single problem and magnify it, while assuming players like Cam will get it together with the rough spots. If Tebow had thrown 8-19 the sky would have been falling.

      But the real truth is that Cam looked good, and Tebow is doing okay. He has yet to really play (ever) where he had good protection or run blocking.

      Comment


      • Did Colt McCoy have to run for his life after all but 2 of his attempts? Because Tebow did.

        I don't know how you compare a QB with time to a QB without time. McCoy's also been getting all of the reps with the 1st team. But I really like Colt. I hope he is a good QB. He's been doing everything right, except that little comment when the Broncos picked Tebow instead of him, but that was Colt being a competitor. Whatever.

        Comment


        • Also, Tebow was blitzed almost if not every play. McCoy had very vanilla defensive looks and at least Woodson was not playing.
          Decimating the competition, leaving in the wake a blind ambition.

          elecshoc
          You will be for ever known as the truth see-er

          Comment


          • Originally posted by thenewera44 View Post
            What I find hilarious is how the media is now all slobbering on Cam Newton. Mike Greenberg just said he is nearly breathless by what he saw. John Clayton just said Newton was "spot on" with his throws. He said it is so obvious he is ready to be the starter.

            Let me clarify.

            Newton was 8 for 19. He 0 for 6 on 3rd down. They made excuses that 2 passes were dropped for him.

            Now, compare that with what they say about Tebow and his decent showing in preseason. I remember at least one pass dropped. His completion% was very good in pre-season.


            I wish I was as blind as others as to what is happening and the reason behind the blatant double standard. Hell, it is so obvious about what they are doing, that even if I was blind, I would see what is happening.
            Tebow was 1 of 6 for 3rd down conversions. There was another converted for him by penalty.

            While he had a very nice completion rate, Tebow's throws were all toward the middle of the field - a very limited pass selection. When teams start gameplanning, they'll go after that with Timmy. He looked rushed and indecisive out there - the game is apparently still moving too fast for him.

            Newton looked much more comfortable and able to handle the speed of the game. I think that's what everyone is picking up on...
            "That's a crap question."
            - Kyle Orton

            Comment


            • Originally posted by neckbeard View Post
              Tebow was 1 of 6 for 3rd down conversions. There was another converted for him by penalty.

              While he had a very nice completion rate, Tebow's throws were all toward the middle of the field - a very limited pass selection. When teams start gameplanning, they'll go after that with Timmy. He looked rushed and indecisive out there - the game is apparently still moving too fast for him.

              Newton looked much more comfortable and able to handle the speed of the game. I think that's what everyone is picking up on...
              Tebow was rushed. Almost every time he made a throw he was hit or he had to buy time. On the plays he didn't get rushed, it was because they had max protection and a 2-man route. No one was open. Then the other one, he stepped up and hit Matthew Willis. The rest? He got jacked up pretty good.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by jetdrumz View Post
                Has anyone ever said this about Colt?

                “I didn’t know [Tebow was that strong],” Victor Butler said Thursday, per ESPN Dallas. “I’ll know the next time. I’m going to run through him. I thought it was going to be an easy sack. I guess not. He’s a guy that’s got a little bite to him. … I heard that everybody wants a Tebow sack. It’s like getting an Xbox for Christmas. Everybody wants one. I guess I’ll have to get mine next year.”
                Funny. I will give a lot to see Tim get to the 2nd level, and go one on one with Butler. I can hear the truck horn now as I type. Xbox for Butler, but a truck of xbox360s for Tebow's orphans.

                For those that don't know...Tebow ain't scared of no linebacker. Ask laurinaitis (tebow ran over him as a frosh) and eric berry.
                "There's only one person carrying the ball right here."
                -Tim Tebow, 12/26/10, game winning drive

                XV knows touchdowns.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by neckbeard View Post
                  Tebow was 1 of 6 for 3rd down conversions. There was another converted for him by penalty.

                  While he had a very nice completion rate, Tebow's throws were all toward the middle of the field - a very limited pass selection. When teams start gameplanning, they'll go after that with Timmy. He looked rushed and indecisive out there - the game is apparently still moving too fast for him.

                  Newton looked much more comfortable and able to handle the speed of the game. I think that's what everyone is picking up on...
                  Like I mentioned. Tebow was blitzed on just about every play. Nearly all of his 3rd downs where more than 3rd and 10. Very low percentage of those are converted, unless you are Rothleisberger, completing passes to Cedrci Wilson burning Foxworth and Champ and a constant basis.

                  Cam Newton did next to nothing under pressure.

                  Tebow did make the right reads on the blitzes. I dont know why Fox would run a vanilla off tackle to the 4 hole on 2nd and 14, only to give Tebow a 3rd and 14 to convert. Curious, to say the least.

                  Down on the goal line when you have 3rd and goal from the 17, it is also very low percentage.

                  All I do know is this. If Tebow was 8 for 19 and was 0 for 6 on all third downs Mike greenberg nor John Clayton, nor you would have anything good to say about it.

                  Hell, 1 incompletion is dealt with in harsh ways.

                  There is a blatant double standard and obvious hatred for Tebow. We also know that the hatred has hardly anything to with football.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by jetdrumz View Post
                    Has anyone ever said this about Colt?

                    “I didn’t know [Tebow was that strong],” Victor Butler said Thursday, per ESPN Dallas. “I’ll know the next time. I’m going to run through him. I thought it was going to be an easy sack. I guess not. He’s a guy that’s got a little bite to him. … I heard that everybody wants a Tebow sack. It’s like getting an Xbox for Christmas. Everybody wants one. I guess I’ll have to get mine next year.”
                    Sounds like EVERYONE wants to sack Tebow. It also sounds like they know he won't go down easy. Therefore, EVERYONE WILL BE HITTING TEBOW AS HARD AS THEY CAN to be "the guy who got Tebow."

                    Seems like a recipe for Tebow to get very seriously injured...
                    "That's a crap question."
                    - Kyle Orton

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by neckbeard View Post
                      Sounds like EVERYONE wants to sack Tebow. It also sounds like they know he won't go down easy. Therefore, EVERYONE WILL BE HITTING TEBOW AS HARD AS THEY CAN to be "the guy who got Tebow."

                      Seems like a recipe for Tebow to get very seriously injured...
                      Yeah, it's pretty much always been that way unfortunately.
                      Decimating the competition, leaving in the wake a blind ambition.

                      elecshoc
                      You will be for ever known as the truth see-er

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Crazy8 View Post
                        Tebow was rushed. Almost every time he made a throw he was hit or he had to buy time. On the plays he didn't get rushed, it was because they had max protection and a 2-man route. No one was open. Then the other one, he stepped up and hit Matthew Willis. The rest? He got jacked up pretty good.
                        That's what happens when you're known as a QB given to scrambling in the face of pressure.

                        Remember that this was 2nd stringers playing a vanilla Defense. If it were the Dallas starters and the DC actually gameplanned against Tebow, he'd have been in very serious trouble...
                        "That's a crap question."
                        - Kyle Orton

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Roddoliver View Post
                          They don't have to redesign the offense to the point of creating something bizarre that only fits Tebow. Just be smart with the play calling and let Tebow move instead of just playing like a statue in the pocket.

                          Look at the Packers' offense against the Browns:

                          http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/201108...owns#tab:watch

                          It's perfect for Tebow. And nothing out of this world.

                          1st play: Rodgers on the move, but he gives the ball to the RB. Good play for a mobile QB with the option to keep the ball and execute the bootleg.

                          2nd play: Great formation for Tebow. Shotgun with a receiving TE #83 close to the OL and a RB between the RG and RT. You can use a good combination of quick passes with the TE and RB, and these guys can also block for Tebow if it's a designed run off tackle, for example. Rodgers moves out of the pocket and throws on the run.

                          These are the kinds of plays Tebow should execute more often. A lot of movement and opportunity for deception.
                          Yeah, but look who the Packer coach is.

                          Now look who our coach is.

                          It's a tough situation. John Fox isn't going to allow his offense to change from a conservative, pound the rock, offense to a high flying, circus-ball show with Tim Tebow as the ringmaster. They're going to be forced to look at Tebow like they do any other QB. Here's our offense. Play within that offense. If you can't, you can't play for our team.

                          And that's how they should look at him. I don't understand all of the people that think Tebow should get some sort of preferential treatment. You have to simplify the situation. Forget who Tebow was in college. Picture him as a guy named Joe Blow. Now what would you do with him as a QB in the NFL?

                          Remember, there are several QBs who come from different systems that don't make it in the NFL because they aren't familiar enough with the pro game to make the transition fast enough to make the team. That's the story with dozens of QBs every year.

                          Now, if I'm forgetting his name, and all that he did in college, then I'm wondering if Tebow should even be our 3rd string QB at this point. He might be in a competition with Adam Weber.
                          Last edited by Crazy8; 08-15-2011, 07:50 AM.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by thenewera44 View Post
                            What I find hilarious is how the media is now all slobbering on Cam Newton. Mike Greenberg just said he is nearly breathless by what he saw. John Clayton just said Newton was "spot on" with his throws. He said it is so obvious he is ready to be the starter.

                            Let me clarify.

                            Newton was 8 for 19. He 0 for 6 on 3rd down. They made excuses that 2 passes were dropped for him.

                            Now, compare that with what they say about Tebow and his decent showing in preseason. I remember at least one pass dropped. His completion% was very good in pre-season.

                            I wish I was as blind as others as to what is happening and the reason behind the blatant double standard. Hell, it is so obvious about what they are doing, that even if I was blind, I would see what is happening.
                            Exactly. The double standard going on with Cam and Tebow is sickening. Most people who are slobbering over Newton only watched a couple highlights. I watched the entire game yesterday and I can say he looked decent at best.

                            If Tebow would have gone 8-19, he would have been lit on fire. And some of the throws Cam missed were to OPEN receivers, but when Tim misses ONE open receiver, he is slaughtered.

                            When Newton uses his mobility="Oh he's so mobile and can extend the play with his feet."

                            When Tim uses his moiblity="Tebow is too impatient with his reads, he needs to stay in the pocket, he's going to get killed running the ball....He's just "not ready.""

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by neckbeard View Post
                              That's what happens when you're known as a QB given to scrambling in the face of pressure.

                              Remember that this was 2nd stringers playing a vanilla Defense. If it were the Dallas starters and the DC actually gameplanned against Tebow, he'd have been in very serious trouble...
                              Vanilla defense? Zone dogs are vanilla defenses? Because that's what they were doing.

                              Now I didn't see many exotic things against Brady Quinn. And Quinn had more time than Tebow. But against Tebow and Orton? That Dallas team was coming to get our QBs.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Crazy8 View Post
                                But I'm saying you didn't see squat without the film. You know how I know that? Because you can't see squat.

                                I'm not saying none of us know what we're talking about. I'm saying there are some things that you can't see enough of. One is routes and coverage. You can see the O-line and D-line just fine. But you need the big picture that film gives you to see what's going on, and you need to know what play is being called so you know what the reads are. You can't criticize someone for missing their 5th read if they didn't have time to get to their 3rd read, can you?

                                You also can't criticize a QB for looking at an initial read of a deep route with a safety over the top, coming off of that route and going to his 2nd read. In the end, my point is that we don't know what happened on that play. So how can you criticize someone over with an all-encompassing, "they can't read defenses" assessment?

                                I'm just pointing out that you're assuming things that you can't really know right now. You can assume, but that's what it is. It's an assumption. Even when you get Ron Jaworski getting film on there and showing you things, that's a few isolated plays. Again, it tells me, personally, nothing about a player's overall body of work. It just shows me 2 plays. Great. :clap:
                                Watched it again twice yesterday. Pro Bowler former QB Brian Griese agrees with me. I'll criticize what I see, because everyone else does too.

                                It's only two plays, out of 7 pass attempts. Of which 3 were solo read plays.
                                sigpic

                                Hooray, beer!

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