Tim Tebow Part 4 (Merged)

[TT15Superman]

What he said about Tebow is what I have already said. Tebow is not a pocket passer, and to ask him to be on is asking him to be something he is not. Teams that let him play his style of football will be successful.

Tebow cannot be a running qb his whole career. In the end father time catches up with you. He will need to be a pocket qb in his 30's...so he had better start learning that skill now.

[thenewera44]

That's what happens when you're known as a QB given to scrambling in the face of pressure.

Remember that this was 2nd stringers playing a vanilla Defense. If it were the Dallas starters and the DC actually gameplanned against Tebow, he'd have been in very serious trouble...

I have seen the game several times, and they didnt play anything vanilla. ALmost as if Ryan was determined to no let Tebow look good against him.

They blitzed him on every down. Complex blitz packages too. If anything was vanilla, it was the offensive play calling.


I should also point out something else that Greenberg and Clayton said this morning. While they were in awe of Newton (literally the way he walked, not kidding) they brought up the point that Newton was playing WITH the second teamers.

I couldnt help but notice in your observations (false as they are) that Tebow played against 2nd teamers, but also played with 2nd teamers.

Oh, I get it. All of that only counts for Newton, but not for Tebow.

[Crazy8]

Watched it again twice yesterday. Pro Bowler former QB Brian Griese agrees with me. I'll criticize what I see, because everyone else does too.

It's only two plays, out of 7 pass attempts. Of which 3 were solo read plays.

So, Griese agreed that Matt Willis was open? Or did he make the statement that Tebow can't read defenses? Which is it? Did Griese look at the film? Did Griese know the play and the reads?

Hmmm....didn't think so.

And criticize away. That's fine. I never said you couldn't. I'll just be there pointing out that you don't know what you're talking about. And that's my right too.

[neckbeard]

Vanilla defense? Zone dogs are vanilla defenses? Because that's what they were doing.

Now I didn't see many exotic things against Brady Quinn. And Quinn had more time than Tebow. But against Tebow and Orton? That Dallas team was coming to get our QBs.

A blitz is now an "exotic play?" I'd argue that it's a basic of most defensive playbooks. Simply because they blitzed doesn't mean that they were gameplanning against either Orton or Tebow. They were just working on their blitzes.

Demarcus Ware didn't do anything fancy when he got in Orton's face on the first pass play. He simply came straight thru the line at Kyle. It's not "complex" when you let a defender thru untouched...

[Crazy8]

A blitz is now an "exotic play?" I'd argue that it's a basic of most defensive playbooks. Simply because they blitzed doesn't mean that they were gameplanning against either Orton or Tebow. They were just working on their blitzes...

Zone dogs aren't just blitzes. Blitzes usually denote man-to-man coverage. Zone dogs are when you blitz a linebacker, safety, corner, or all 3 and drop 1 or 2 D-linemen in order to confuse the QB and the offensive protection. It works, because you have to account for the D-linemen, but what do you do as a guard who's supposed to block a tackle, that tackle drops into coverage. Well now what? You got no one to block. But the tackle next to you? He's got 2 or 3 choices. Which does he chose? The inside guy, hopefully. Unless you're Orlando Franklin.

Why do zone dogs confuse? Because it's not vanilla.

[CoryWinget81]

So, Griese agreed that Matt Willis was open? Or did he make the statement that Tebow can't read defenses? Which is it? Did Griese look at the film? Did Griese know the play and the reads?

Hmmm....didn't think so.

And criticize away. That's fine. I never said you couldn't. I'll just be there pointing out that you don't know what you're talking about. And that's my right too.

Griese agreed a couple of different plays that if Tebow had not been looking to run, he'd have seen an open receiver. I'll take the word of a former NFL QB.

I'm not saying Tebow can't read defenses. I'm saying I don't think he wants to. He was also under immense pressure, so I'll give him that too. I'm watching it right now. Tebow drops, looks at one WR, sees he's covered, looks at the line and starts to pick his way through before taking a pretty vicious hit.


At least he will take his lumps in training camp.

[Crazy8]

Griese agreed a couple of different plays that if Tebow had not been looking to run, he'd have seen an open receiver. I'll take the word of a former NFL QB.

I'm not saying Tebow can't read defenses. I'm saying I don't think he wants to. He was also under immense pressure, so I'll give him that too. I'm watching it right now. Tebow drops, looks at one WR, sees he's covered, looks at the line and starts to pick his way through before taking a pretty vicious hit.


At least he will take his lumps in training camp.

Why would Tebow not want to read defenses? And was he under pressure after he made that first read?

[CoryWinget81]

Why would Tebow not want to read defenses? And was he under pressure after he made that first read?

I've said this before: I think Tebow will do the song and dance about learning how to play under center, stay in the pocket, learn to play within the design of the play and make a great showing of it for the sake of argument. But when the bullets start flying, he's gonna play his game and that'll show us and everyone else that said he couldn't do it.

Oh, and no he wasn't under pressure. He actually had time to diagnose the defensive line before he took off. It'd be a real shame if he started keeping his eyes downfield in that situation.

[neckbeard]

Zone dogs aren't just blitzes. Blitzes usually denote man-to-man coverage. Zone dogs are when you blitz a linebacker, safety, corner, or all 3 and drop 1 or 2 D-linemen in order to confuse the QB and the offensive protection. It works, because you have to account for the D-linemen, but what do you do as a guard who's supposed to block a tackle, that tackle drops into coverage. Well now what? You got no one to block. But the tackle next to you? He's got 2 or 3 choices. Which does he chose? The inside guy, hopefully. Unless you're Orlando Franklin.

Why do zone dogs confuse? Because it's not vanilla.

I'll have to go back to the game film.

I'm at work right now and it's on my home computer.

But I think that Tebow was confused simply because the game is still moving too fast for him...

[Crazy8]

I'll have to go back to the game film.

I'm at work right now and it's on my home computer.

But I think that Tebow was confused simply because the game is still moving too fast for him...

That's the problem! We don't have game film!

We have regular TV coverage! But you can see the dogs and the corner blitzes.

[Crazy8]

I've said this before: I think Tebow will do the song and dance about learning how to play under center, stay in the pocket, learn to play within the design of the play and make a great showing of it for the sake of argument. But when the bullets start flying, he's gonna play his game and that'll show us and everyone else that said he couldn't do it.

Oh, and no he wasn't under pressure. He actually had time to diagnose the defensive line before he took off. It'd be a real shame if he started keeping his eyes downfield in that situation.

Now I have to go back and look! I thought Tebow was under pressure right away pretty much every time except when he had max protection.

Even when he had a pocket and made the throw to Willis, he still got lit up.

[neckbeard]

That's the problem! We don't have game film!

We have regular TV coverage! But you can see the dogs and the corner blitzes.

BTW, did you notice with how quickly Orton's pocket collapsed that he had to abandon it every time? That he THREW ON THE RUN? And looked pretty good doing it...

[CoryWinget81]

BTW, did you notice with how quickly Orton's pocket collapsed that he had to abandon it every time? That he THREW ON THE RUN? And looked pretty good doing it...

The last passing play where Orton moved to his right outside of the pocket really confused me. Was he looking for something specific? Trying to pull coverage away...? He had a pretty good pocket. I still don't understand why he left it.

[thenewera44]

According to Griese, Tebow missed an open WR?

OMG! Cut him......just just CUT HIM!!!

[Crazy8]

BTW, did you notice with how quickly Orton's pocket collapsed that he had to abandon it every time? That he THREW ON THE RUN? And looked pretty good doing it...

Looked good doing it? He was 2 for 6.

I still have hope for Kyle, though he let me down in the redzone again.