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ESPN "Audible" on Broncos QB

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  • #46
    Originally posted by CoryWinget81 View Post
    So You like QB's that were told they couldn't make it as a QB (and you're a Tebow homer), and Dilfer likes QB's who seem to be "cerebral" (aka immobile)...and you're bashing him for his opinion?

    Anyone else see the irony here?
    Steve Young was never supposed to amount to anything either. Ryan Leaf, Jamarcus Russell, and so on were all supposed to be 'can't miss' quarterbacks.

    At the end of the day, Players either perform on the field or they don't. What a bunch of analysts on ESPN think about them has no bearing on their actual performance on the field.
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    @BlueNOrangeFTW

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    • #47
      My "bias" is most precisely geared towards a fascination with how problematic it is to predict quarterback success in the NFL.

      I read all of Malcolm Gladwell's books, and am a subscriber to the New Yorker. I read this article when it came out back in 2008. Highly recommended:

      http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2..._fact_gladwell

      It is about the difficulty of predicting quarterback success in the NFL, and it compares it to finding good teachers for early childhood education.

      I was also a huge fan of the book Moneyball, by Michael Lewis. The central premise of that book is that for generations, baseball scouts have relied on a conventional wisdom that is wrong in predicting the actual value of baseball players as it relates to winning. About that time, Boston hired the guru of so-called "sabremetrics," Bill James, and has since won two World Series.

      So my sub-hobby in the NFL is the idea that certain players are highly influential on the outcomes of games, but that scouts have a hard time figuring that based on college, because they look for the wrong things.

      P.S. Michael Lewis also wrote a "moneyball" type article about basketball, focusing in on Shane Battier when he was Houston. He suggested that Shane Battier is actually one of the best players at acutally influencing wins. Note that Battier is now playing for the surprising Grizzlies. Check out the 2009 article from the NY Times, called "The No-Stats All Star." http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/15/ma...Battier-t.html

      P.S.S. Michael Lewis wrote The Blind Side also.
      Last edited by Jay3; 05-05-2011, 05:42 AM.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Jay3 View Post
        I am thoroughly biased.
        We are for once, in agreement.
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        • #49
          Originally posted by CoryWinget81 View Post
          We are for once, in agreement.
          Let's try for two -- you are thoroughly biased.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Jay3 View Post
            Let's try for two -- you are thoroughly biased.
            Team, yes.
            Player, no.

            I can't stand 2 out of 3 of my favorite college players of all time, and I think the third one (and favorite) probably wont hack it.

            (Vince Young, Kevin Durant, and Colt McCoy, in case you were interested ;D)
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            • #51
              Originally posted by CoryWinget81 View Post
              Team, yes.
              Player, no.

              I can't stand 2 out of 3 of my favorite college players of all time, and I think the third one (and favorite) probably wont hack it.

              (Vince Young, Kevin Durant, and Colt McCoy, in case you were interested ;D)
              But that's the case for all of us -- we all have favorites we don't like, and favorites we don't think will make it.

              But the bias is there. Bias is what you bring to the table. It doesn't go away, it's what you overcome.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by CoryWinget81 View Post
                Team, yes.
                Player, no.

                I can't stand 2 out of 3 of my favorite college players of all time, and I think the third one (and favorite) probably wont hack it.

                (Vince Young, Kevin Durant, and Colt McCoy, in case you were interested ;D)
                Kevin Durant is elite..

                Vince Young could have been a top 10 QB if he didn't have maturity issues. The physical tools were definitely there.

                Colt McCoy has his limitations, but he's a good fit in the WC offense because of his short range accuracy and mobility. I wouldn't throw the towel in on him quite yet.
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                Thank you to my grandfather jetrazor for being a veteran of the armed forces!

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Jay3 View Post
                  But that's the case for all of us -- we all have favorites we don't like, and favorites we don't think will make it.

                  But the bias is there. Bias is what you bring to the table. It doesn't go away, it's what you overcome.
                  True, and I've overcame by bias by not being a Titans, Thunder or Browns fan.
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                  Hooray, beer!

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Al Wilson 4 Mayor View Post
                    Kevin Durant is elite..

                    Vince Young could have been a top 10 QB if he didn't have maturity issues. The physical tools were definitely there.

                    Colt McCoy has his limitations, but he's a good fit in the WC offense because of his short range accuracy and mobility. I wouldn't throw the towel in on him quite yet.
                    I can't stand Durant because he plays in the Nuggets division. (Not that I give a rats ass about the WWE, ahem, excuse me, NBA anymore.)

                    Vince Young had every tool he needed except the one between his ears. I think if he went to college anywhere else other than Texas he'd have been a lot better pro. He was loved, coddled and babied at Texas. Mack never yelled, got mad or criticized him. When he came to the NFL he wasn't ready for the harsh reality that not everyone is gonna powder your butt.

                    And Colt?
                    He's so tough. He wants to be one of the guys, not THE guy though. That's why he'll never make it in the NFL. I hope I'm wrong though. I'd love to see him succeed...
                    ...still doesn't mean I'll be a Browns fan.
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                    Hooray, beer!

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by CoryWinget81 View Post
                      Ask any member of that Ravens team, and the team after they let Dilfer go...

                      He was the unquestioned leader of that team, and when Billick drop kicked him out the team didn't know how to respond.

                      Everyone wants to make fun of Dilfer and say that the D won him a ring, but if that were true, why didn't the Ravens win another ring the next year? They had every starter on D back almost.
                      Jamal Lewis didn't play the season after they won the super bowl. Terry Allen started 8 games at RB for them that year, that was also his last season. Jason Brookins had the 2nd most carries on that team, that was his first and last year in the NFL. Trent Dilfer didn't just lean on the defense during 2000, he also leaned on the running game which was non-existant in 2001.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by DishWater View Post
                        That's precisely why we need to dump him.

                        I'd rather not pay the man 8 mill a year to keel over on third down...
                        Perhaps. I certainly don't want to pay him that this year only to see him walk away at the end of it. Trade him now or restructure his contract and extend him.
                        Hoping for a defensive-minded head coach and a return to the ZBS on offense. At the very least, no more cheaters for head coach.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by CoryWinget81 View Post
                          True, and I've overcame by bias by not being a Titans, Thunder or Browns fan.
                          Thank god, could you imagine!?!??!

                          In all seriousness though, you probably like the rest of us, watch their games when they come on and hope they do good or at the least just mildy excited to see what they are doing.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Incomplete84 View Post
                            Thank god, could you imagine!?!??!

                            In all seriousness though, you probably like the rest of us, watch their games when they come on and hope they do good or at the least just mildy excited to see what they are doing.
                            Durant, nope
                            Young, nope
                            Colt, mildly interested. I don't go out of my way to watch him though. I have all of these guys' authentic jersey and two of VY and 3 of Colts, too.
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                            • #59
                              I hear you.

                              Originally posted by Crazy8 View Post
                              See my post above. Dilfer boarders on being a sycophant at times. He has "his guys" that he likes and of course guys that he doesn't like. McElroy is his guy apparently. Tebow isn't. Unfortunately for me, I don't want to know that. I just want the analysis without his opinion. I can say a guy is fast and explosive, or that a release is compact and quick without letting you know if I like the guy or not.
                              Please pardon me for sounding didactic.

                              Dilfer seems to value QBs who fit a narrow definition of sterotypical NFL QBs. Maybe Steve Young is less offensive because he himself isn't sterotypical.

                              I enjoy listening to Gruden more than Dilfer because Gruden is a coach. One thing Gruden and Dilfer had in common at the draft is that they both like Chris Ault's Pistol Offense.

                              That is noteworthy because Kaepernick isn't a sterotypical NFL QB and the Pistol isn't used in the NFL ... yet.

                              Gruden said he had seen all of Nevada's games in 2010 and "... every time I see the Pistol it makes me want to run it." Interesting. If he ever coaches again, I wonder if he will?
                              "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by samparnell View Post
                                Please pardon me for sounding didactic.

                                Dilfer seems to value QBs who fit a narrow definition of sterotypical NFL QBs. Maybe Steve Young is less offensive because he himself isn't sterotypical.

                                I enjoy listening to Gruden more than Dilfer because Gruden is a coach. One thing Gruden and Dilfer had in common at the draft is that they both like Chris Ault's Pistol Offense.

                                That is noteworthy because Kaepernick isn't a sterotypical NFL QB and the Pistol isn't used in the NFL ... yet.

                                Gruden said he had seen all of Nevada's games in 2010 and "... every time I see the Pistol it makes me want to run it." Interesting. If he ever coaches again, I wonder if he will?
                                What I love about Gruden is that he proclaims to like everybody (except Derek Anderson). So, when he gives analysis, you can't really tell who he likes. He's smart to be careful, because, honestly, he might be coaching any one of these guys someday. Don't burn bridges.

                                Does he really like the Pistol Offense? If he gets another coaching gig, and runs it, then it's a yes. But if he doesn't? Was he just being nice? He tends to talk a lot of people and a lot of things up.

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