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  • #61
    Originally posted by broncoFan! View Post
    Yes. A lady can sue Mcdonalds for spilling coffee on herself.

    Back on topic, Bailey is a veteran player of our team and has proved himself. Others meanwhile........
    What exactly has Bailey won? Personal accolades aside...

    (NO Crazy8, that doesn't mean he can't be a leader. It just means he shouldn't get special treatment )
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    • #62
      Originally posted by CoryWinget81 View Post
      What exactly has Bailey won? Personal accolades aside...

      (NO Crazy8, that doesn't mean he can't be a leader. It just means he shouldn't get special treatment )
      How about a trip to the AFCC because of a six pick against the Patriots in 2006?
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      "Maybe if he had an iron suit or a magic hammer...."

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      • #63
        Originally posted by broncoFan! View Post
        How about a trip to the AFCC because of a six pick against the Patriots in 2006?
        First of all, it's pick-six.

        And I said personal accolades aside. Was the score 6-0?

        I didn't think so.
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        • #64
          I still challenge that Trent Dilfer was not the leader nor franchise player for the Ravens, but he was serviceable enough to help them win games.

          You don't NEED a franchise QB to win, but it sure is much easier route if you have one.

          So even arguing that the QB must be the main leader can be proven wrong with past SB history.
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          • #65
            Originally posted by CoryWinget81 View Post
            I disagree. Just because you play a certain position doesn't mean that standards are different for you than any other position.

            You don't have to be a QB to lead the team. A player that's been a Bronco and a team leader for 10 years I would expect to take a little initiative. AND, if he doesn't want to? That's fine. But if you're going to say Orton, a 3 year veteran, should be expected to be more of a leader than Bailey, perrienal pro-bowler and 10 year veteran of the Broncos, then I think you're not only wrong, you're crazy. (no pun intended)
            I agree that you don't have to be a QB to lead the team. Especially when it's workouts we're talking about. Champ could do that for the defense. I think Dawkins is trying to do that. Maybe that's why Champ isn't stepping up. Dawkins is more comfortable in that role than Champ. Champ's not very vocal. He's more of a "lead by example". But it's kind of hard to lead by example when there's no one around to take your example.

            QBs on the other hand have to be vocal. They have to take control of the huddle, look their guys in the eye, and tell guys to quit screwing up and get with the program. They have to be very decisive at the line calling out protections, adjustments, and audibles.

            If Champ never takes control in the huddle, no one will ding him for it. But if Orton doesn't take control of the huddle, then that's huge. He goes down as lacking leadership. That's what I mean by there's a difference.

            It's cool. We disagree on a lot of things. I'm willing to agree to disagree here too as well.

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            • #66
              Corey i like you, but the sooner you realize that Kyle Orton is not a part of this team's future, the better off you will be... Even if he stays this season and starts at the beginning of the season, it's only a matter of time until he is traded away.

              Just accept the Tebowness and move on... No need to get stressed and argue all day over something stupid. Your posts are to good for that.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by CoryWinget81 View Post
                First of all, it's pick-six.

                And I said personal accolades aside. Was the score 6-0?

                I didn't think so.
                Still he basically won that game for us man..... cmon dude it's Champ Bailey. He helped win that Kansas City game by shutting down Dwayne Bowe.
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                • #68
                  Originally posted by broncoFan! View Post
                  Still he basically won that game for us man..... cmon dude it's Champ Bailey. He helped win that Kansas City game by shutting down Dwayne Bowe.
                  Single players do not win or lose games. They contribute.
                  Was that the same KC game that Orton threw 4 TD passes and forced the Chiefs out of their running game?

                  The end.
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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by d-bronx42 View Post
                    Corey i like you, but the sooner you realize that Kyle Orton is not a part of this team's future, the better off you will be... Even if he stays this season and starts at the beginning of the season, it's only a matter of time until he is traded away.

                    Just accept the Tebowness and move on... No need to get stressed and argue all day over something stupid. Your posts are to good for that.
                    i feel like cory and i feel the same way. we both know orton isnt the future, we both like tebow. however people around here are so damn biased against orton and every little thing he does or doesnt do gets criticized to NO END.

                    orton played well for us but we didnt win a lot of games because its near impossible for a QB to carry both sides of the ball enough to win games while having to put up 30+ pts a game just to have a chance at winning while playing mistake free football because you know the defense cant stop anyone and a 1 TD lead an put the game out of reach.
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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by CoryWinget81 View Post
                      Single players do not win or lose games. They contribute.
                      Was that the same KC game that Orton threw 4 TD passes and forced the Chiefs out of their running game?

                      The end.
                      The same KC team that he later came back to and could not score a single TD against?
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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by BroncoFanNC View Post
                        I still challenge that Trent Dilfer was not the leader nor franchise player for the Ravens, but he was serviceable enough to help them win games.

                        You don't NEED franchise QB to win, but it sure is much easier route if you have one.

                        So even arguing that the QB must be the main leader can be proven wrong with past SB history.
                        I thought you were kidding. I really did.

                        Dilfer started that season as the back-up anyway. Tony Banks started that season.

                        Plus, the Ravens had two really good runningbacks that year in Priest Holmes and Jamal Lewis. Jamal Lewis had 1300 plus yards that year and Priest Holmes had almost 600 yards that year.

                        But the key was their defense. The Ravens set a record for allowing 165 points all season. That's a little more than 10.3 points per game. Then we scored 3 points against them in the playoffs, and then they took it to Tennessee based off of a field goal block returned for a TD and an INT return for a TD by Ray Lewis. Then they took out the Raiders. Teams scored a total of 16 points in the playoffs. 3 from us, 10 from Tennessee, and 3 from the Raiders.

                        Trent Dilfer only appeared in 11 games (starting in 8). He averaged 136.5 points per game, threw for 12 TDs and 11 INTs and had a 76.6 QB rating. I don't think Dilfer led anything. I think Dilfer tried to not screw up too much.

                        Think about this for a second. The Ravens D gave up 165 points. Their kicker Matt Stover scored 135 points that season.

                        Maybe you can hope to have a Ravens D like that and not have that leadership at the QB position, but as it looks, it seems like it's the exception more than the rule. A lot of guys could've QB'd that team to the Superbowl. Kyle Orton's one of them, for sure. So is Tim Tebow. Brady Quinn? I don't know about that. But I'd hope so.
                        Last edited by Crazy8; 05-05-2011, 01:12 PM.

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by d-bronx42 View Post
                          Corey i like you, but the sooner you realize that Kyle Orton is not a part of this team's future, the better off you will be... Even if he stays this season and starts at the beginning of the season, it's only a matter of time until he is traded away.

                          Just accept the Tebowness and move on... No need to get stressed and argue all day over something stupid. Your posts are to good for that.
                          Im at home with nothing else to do today...so its not like I had anything better to do.

                          I've already said many times that Tebow is the future of the team. I've already said I hope he does well and leads this team.

                          I don't have to accept anything, up to and including the constant double-standards and tearing down of a member of this football team.
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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by CoryWinget81 View Post
                            What exactly has Bailey won? Personal accolades aside...
                            The hearts of Broncos fans
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                            • #74
                              Quarterbacks are judged (maybe unfairly) on their W/L record.

                              Jake Plummer was a perennial loser as a Cardinal, yet a winner once he arrived in Denver. Was it Jake Plummer, or at top 10 defense that helped him accumulate that great winning %


                              Jay Cutler was a loser in Denver. Was it Jay Cutler, or the 29th ranked defense who helped earn him a sub .500 record?


                              Kyle Orton was praised about how much of a winner he was when he was traded to Denver. Yet, in two years he also has a sub .500 record. Is it Kyle Orton, or the 32nd ranked defense?


                              Like I said, quarterbacks are judged by their W/L record. It may not be fair, but it's the truth.

                              Frankly, I don't like Orton. Didn't like him at Purdue, cared less about him as a Bear, and I'm tired of him as a Bronco.


                              The REAL fact, is that Josh McDaniel's is the one who lead us to the bottom feeders of the AFC West, AND the NFL.


                              It's not Orton, it's Josh McDaniel's. And half you blind hopefuls still to this day will not admit it.

                              The day we traded Jay Cutler (a young 25 year old coming off his FIRST Pro Bowl) was the day we sealed our fate for the next 5 years.

                              You hire Josh McDaniel's and you'd think he'd say "Let me fix the 29th ranked defense." But oh NO... he has to start with the quarterback and the #2 overall offense.

                              Now, the #2 offense was not perfect, especially scoring wise. But it doesn't take a rocket scientist to examine which part of the team was holding the entire team back: the 29th ranked defense.
                              Last edited by Peerless; 05-05-2011, 01:16 PM.

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Peerless View Post
                                Quarterbacks are judged (maybe unfairly) on their W/L record.

                                Jake Plummer was a perennial loser as a Cardinal, yet a winner once he arrived in Denver. Was it Jake Plummer, or at top 10 defense that helped him accumulate that great winning %


                                Jay Cutler was a loser in Denver. Was it Jay Cutler, or the 29th ranked defense who helped earn him a sub .500 record?


                                Kyle Orton was praised about how much of a winner he was when he was traded to Denver. Yet, in two years he also has a sub .500 record. Is it Kyle Orton, or the 32nd ranked defense?


                                Like I said, quarterbacks are judged by their W/L record. It may not be fair, but it's the truth.

                                Frankly, I don't like Orton. Didn't like him at Purdue, cared less about him as a Bear, and I'm tired of him as a Bronco.


                                The REAL fact, is that Josh McDaniel's is the one who lead us to the bottom feeders of the AFC West, AND the NFL.


                                It's not Orton, it's Josh McDaniel's. And half you blind hopefuls still to this day will not admit it.

                                The day we traded Jay Cutler (a young 25 year old coming off his FIRST Pro Bowl) was the day we sealed our fate for the next 5 years.

                                You hire Josh McDaniel's and you'd think he'd say "Let me fix the 29th ranked defense." But oh NO... he has to start with the quarterback and the #2 overall offense.

                                Now, the #2 offense was not perfect, especially scoring wise. But it doesn't take an rocket scientist to examine which part of the team was holding the entire team back: the 29th ranked defense.
                                Great post, Brent.
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