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  • A smaller Kevin Vickerson

    http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_18054727

    Anybody else concerned that Big Vick is only 285 now.

  • #2
    Originally posted by premier-ace55 View Post
    http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_18054727

    Anybody else concerned that Big Vick is only 285 now.
    Don't like it man. I could see getting down to 310 or 305, but 285 is way too small to anchor against the run. That's where we need him. 20 pounds also makes a huge difference in how much punishment you can take, let alone 35 pounds. I think for linemen, you want to come into the season 10 to 15 lbs overweight, because during the season, you'll be below your target weight for sure. You just lose weight. I think he might've screwed up. We'll see.

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    • #3
      Well someone has worked hard in his time off and I am not worried. Like he said he wants to be an everydown player and maybe wants to be the 3 tech instead of the plug against the run.

      Thanks for the article. CP

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      • #4
        Originally posted by johnlimburg View Post
        Well someone has worked hard in his time off and I am not worried. Like he said he wants to be an everydown player and maybe wants to be the 3 tech instead of the plug against the run.

        Thanks for the article. CP

        Yeah, that was my immediate thought. I think Xanders mentioned that they planned to use him there too, which surprised me somewhat.

        It also points to us not trying to re-sign Thomas unless he doesn't get a deal anywhere else. It's a shame, because I would like to see what he can do when used properly (which we failed to do in 08).
        sigpic

        Elvon Millervil eat grues for breakfast.

        Pey-Pey to Bey-Bey for the Tey-Dey.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by muse View Post
          Yeah, that was my immediate thought. I think Xanders mentioned that they planned to use him there too, which surprised me somewhat.

          It also points to us not trying to re-sign Thomas unless he doesn't get a deal anywhere else. It's a shame, because I would like to see what he can do when used properly (which we failed to do in 08).
          Thomas did nothing in a 4-3 and I don't want to resign him anyway. He will ask for too much money and I would rather sign a young DT in FA. After all this is the largest FA clss in NFL history. It wont be hard to find another Marcus Thomas anyway.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by johnlimburg View Post
            Thomas did nothing in a 4-3 and I don't want to resign him anyway. He will ask for too much money and I would rather sign a young DT in FA. After all this is the largest FA clss in NFL history. It wont be hard to find another Marcus Thomas anyway.
            I think Thomas doing nothing in a 4-3 was more down to the fact that he Slowik used him exclusively in a two-gap role when both him and Robertson were both regarded as most effective in 1-gap schemes. He simply isn't effective as a space eater. Either way, this points to me that Thomas only comes back if we're using 1-gap responsibilities all the way across the line.
            sigpic

            Elvon Millervil eat grues for breakfast.

            Pey-Pey to Bey-Bey for the Tey-Dey.

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            • #7
              He's showing great determination to be an everydown player in the 4-3

              Good for him. It looks like he'll more than likely start paired with a FA.

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              • #8
                Well I always have seen him as a 4-3 strongside DE before all of the weight cutting. Maybe his and the teams plan is to have him as the strongside DE.

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                • #9
                  I saw another poster from a different site state that:

                  Seriously I just looked up Titans defensive line and they have no one over 294lbs yet they only gave up 3.9 yards per rush. They also collected 40 sacks this past season fwiw.
                  Interesting...do you really have to be 315 + to stop the run?
                  "He's going to be the #1 receiver, and is going to be a star in this league for a long time" Todd Mcshay on Jerry Jeudy

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by MarshallMoss View Post
                    I saw another poster from a different site state that:



                    Interesting...do you really have to be 315 + to stop the run?
                    It is one of many factors. It depends on scheme that is run. Is it a 1 gap or 2 gap. If it is a 2 gap (typically a 3-4) which the Titans dont run than you will want space eaters. Usually larger guys who can eat up blocks. In a one gap scheme it is like I said a factor in the equation. 4-3 DT's usually are more athletic and faster and will have success against the run depending on their technique. Leverage, hand use, disengage ability, explosion, anchor.

                    The answer. No. You don't have to have 315 pound DT's to be succesful against the run. However I am sure we will have a few 300 pounders on this teams after FA concludes.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by MarshallMoss View Post
                      I saw another poster from a different site state that:



                      Interesting...do you really have to be 315 + to stop the run?
                      No you don`t. I think the Titans may have gotten away with it because they blitzed everyone. Players, coaches, fans, mascots; anything with legs is capable of being a blitzer.

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                      • #12
                        Plus one thing the Titans have is a very very healthy and very very talented Defensive Tackle rotation.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Crazy8 View Post
                          Don't like it man. I could see getting down to 310 or 305, but 285 is way too small to anchor against the run. That's where we need him. 20 pounds also makes a huge difference in how much punishment you can take, let alone 35 pounds. I think for linemen, you want to come into the season 10 to 15 lbs overweight, because during the season, you'll be below your target weight for sure. You just lose weight. I think he might've screwed up. We'll see.
                          This has to be something he was told to do by EFX. They must have seen potential in hom as a 3tech and asked him to slim down. I think he shows determination and dedication to the team doing this. A surefire starter.
                          sigpic

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by johnlimburg View Post
                            It is one of many factors. It depends on scheme that is run. Is it a 1 gap or 2 gap. If it is a 2 gap (typically a 3-4) which the Titans dont run than you will want space eaters. Usually larger guys who can eat up blocks. In a one gap scheme it is like I said a factor in the equation. 4-3 DT's usually are more athletic and faster and will have success against the run depending on their technique. Leverage, hand use, disengage ability, explosion, anchor.

                            The answer. No. You don't have to have 315 pound DT's to be succesful against the run. However I am sure we will have a few 300 pounders on this teams after FA concludes.

                            If there's one thing I did like about McDaniels, it's that we moved from being a finesse team to a more physical one, even if the transformation wasn't completed during his tenure - I hope we don't lose that mentality (and with us drafting Franklin, it looks like we want our line to beat up the opposition), as much as I'm excited to getting back to a fast defence like we used to have, there's nothing more demoralising than seeing a DL getting blown off the ball.
                            sigpic

                            Elvon Millervil eat grues for breakfast.

                            Pey-Pey to Bey-Bey for the Tey-Dey.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Bulk doesn't necessarily equal strength.

                              Vickerson is a tough/strong cookie. It doesn't matter if he's 320 or 290 when it comes to explosion (driving fwd when ball is snapped).

                              I imagine the benefits of shedding 20-30 pounds outweighs (forgive the pun) everything else b/c it will make him quicker.

                              The Over/Under 4-3 defense is a variation of the basic 4-3 defense that allows the defense to shift more linemen to the suspected point of attack. The alignment features four down lineman and three linebackers in the front seven, just as in a basic 4-3.

                              "Frequently in a 4-3 defense, the DTs will have one gap responsibility. That means the DTs line up on the shoulder of their man, not head to head, and attempt to get by him and into the backfield. They are responsible that no running back comes through their gap... Normally in a 4-3 you will have on very large DT who weighs about 330 to 360 pounds. He will line up on the Center's shoulder and handle an A gap. This large guy is called a Nose Tackle (NT). You will often have a second DT who is just a little smaller and faster, perhaps 305-320 pounds, who will line up on the outside shoulder of the right guard in the 3 position. This DT is sometimes called a "3-technique" because of where he lines up. He will have responsibility for a B gap."

                              http://football.calsci.com/DefensiveLine.html

                              AGAIN...

                              "There are two defensive tackles in the 4–3 scheme. Some teams especially in the NFL do have a nose tackle in this scheme, but most of them do not. In a traditional 4–3 defensive set, there is no nose tackle. Instead there is a left and right defensive tackle. When teams don't have a nose tackle, the tackles lined up over the offensive guards. The nose tackle is generally slightly larger and stronger and plays a one technique which means he lines up on either outside shoulder of the center depending on which way the strength of the play is going. The nose tackle's primary job is to stop the run and take on the double team (which is getting blocked by both the center and the weak-side or pulling guard) thus freeing up the linebackers to make a play...

                              The second defensive tackle (simply referred to as the defensive tackle, under tackle or three tech) is generally a bit quicker and faster than the nose tackle, ideally weighing close to 300 pounds (140 kg) but quick-footed enough to shoot through a gap at the snap. He plays a three technique meaning he lines up on the outside shoulder of the strong side offensive guard. The job of a three tech is to: prevent the run, keep the guard off linebackers, and rush the quarterback on pass plays.

                              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4%E2%80%933_defense

                              Warren Sapp, one of the best UTs of all time was about 6"2' and 300 pounds. Vickerson is already 6"5'... so to be the better UT it's best if he's light and in shape. He'll require (need) speed/quickness more than he needs bulk/beef... In other words, less of Vickerson on the DL is a good thing, and means we'll get more out of him. 6"5' and 290 would be ideal for Vickerson if he wants to play all 3 downs and be a penetrating, disruptive force to harrass the Qb on passing downs.

                              This might be why we elected to pass on Fairley and other possible DTs in this draft. FOX believes Vickerson is young and headed in the right direction. Has enough experience under his lighter belt that we could expect his best years ahead (dare I say break out)!

                              If Vickerson adds explosion and quickness to his game... He'll do well with Elvis next to him come third and long.

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