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EVEN McDaniels realized Moreno was a bust

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  • Exactly my point! The bad team argument can only go so far in my opinion.

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    • I'm sorry, ...

      Originally posted by Syvari View Post
      he is a bust

      it is true he played forpass first teams. it is true the oline was not the best. It is also true that he lacks basic vision that a rb drafted in the first round should have. Look at when he hits the open field. He isnt shift enough to elude defenders. He isnt tough enough to break tackles. Hell he even trips over his own two feet at many times!

      This brings up a serious question about moreno. As a runner, what is he good at? I seriously cannot answer this.


      if moreno was drafted in the 4 round, i dont 5think one can call him a bust. but for the 12th pick of the draft it is clear to me that so far in his career he has not lived up to his draft status.
      ... but you are using an amorphous, indefinite, indistinct, imprecise, nebulous, obscure, unclear, unsure and vague term.

      Define bust. As a noun, bust means a piece of sculpture or a bosom. What do you mean?

      If you expect your opinion to be taken seriously, you should refrain from using an undefined term ... unless you intend to offer a definition. :nono:

      In the event you attempt to define, make sure you are exact and that you clearly delineate the boundaries and limits of that which you are attempting to define. Make sure that your definition is reasonable enough to gain the general agreement of those participating in this conversation.

      Heaven forbid you should define a vague term in a vague manner.
      Last edited by samparnell; 07-20-2011, 10:17 AM.
      "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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      • Originally posted by Syvari View Post
        Yes Moreno did not have alot going for him because all the factors like having bad oline etc. However look at the few times he did make it into the open field. This is where a rb should excel because the nature of his position.

        He isn't fast. He is constantly getting caught from behind

        He isn't quick enough to elude defenders. He trips over his own two feet. (who does that)

        He isn't tough enough to break tackles. Moreno is constantly arm tackled!


        Moreno has poor vision. Watch tape. The the guy runs into a crowd of defenders instead of running for daylight.

        Can you answer me this one question? Okay. What is Moreno good at?
        Those are his strengths. He is great and cutting, eluding and breaking tackles. If you agree that we have a bad line then you have to agree that he is good at breaking tackles, because otherwise, he would be going no where. You can dislike someone all you want, but at least give them credit for their strengths, which he does possess, if he did not then no one would have given him a first round grade.

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        • Originally posted by samparnell View Post
          ... but you are using an amorphous, indefinite, indistinct, imprecise, nebulous, obscure, unclear, unsure and vague term.

          Define bust. As a noun, bust means a piece of sculpture or a bosom. What do you mean?

          If you expect your opinion to be taken seriously, you should refrain from using an undefined term ... unless you intend to offer a definition. :nono:

          In the event you attempt to define, make sure you are exact and that you clearly delineate the boundaries and limits of that which you are attempting to define. Make sure that your definition is reasonable enough to gain the general agreement of those participating in this conversation.

          Heaven forbid you should define a vague term in a vague manner.
          By bust I meant someone who is not living up their draft position. Moreno was the 12 overall pick. Someone in the first round you expect them to become a playmaker. At rb you expect them to carry the load, make plays, and be the backbone of the offense. So far Moreno hasn't showed he could accomplish this. However, if Moreno was drafted in the 3 or 4 rounds he would be playing great. One may even call him a steal. But for the spot he was drafted in he is definitely underachieving

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          • Originally posted by Morningplastic View Post
            Those are his strengths. He is great and cutting, eluding and breaking tackles. If you agree that we have a bad line then you have to agree that he is good at breaking tackles, because otherwise, he would be going no where. You can dislike someone all you want, but at least give them credit for their strengths, which he does possess, if he did not then no one would have given him a first round grade.
            I wouldnt exactly call his break tackle ability a strength. Like I said he often gets arm tackled. Rb should run through those

            Guys give draft grades make mistakes. J. Russel was given a first rnd grade and look how that turned out. He isn't even in the league anymore! Guys underachieve.

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            • Not only ...

              Originally posted by Syvari View Post
              By bust I meant someone who is not living up their draft position. Moreno was the 12 overall pick. Someone in the first round you expect them to become a playmaker. At rb you expect them to carry the load, make plays, and be the backbone of the offense. So far Moreno hasn't showed he could accomplish this. However, if Moreno was drafted in the 3 or 4 rounds he would be playing great. One may even call him a steal. But for the spot he was drafted in he is definitely underachieving
              ... have you failed to define bust, you have introduced other vague terms. Define:
              • -living up their draft position;
                playmaker;
                carry the load;
                make plays;
                and, be the backbone of the offense.


              I have read every post on this thread; even those on my ignore list in order to hear the entire conversation.

              Knowshon Moreno's individual performance statistics and comparison to other players on other teams have been posted. He has demonstrably made plays. You have not clearly delineated the term "bust".

              You have failed to define what a bust is and have now muddied the water by introducing other indefinite and imprecise terms.

              On top of that, you have suggested that Moreno's performance would be acceptable under other circumstances. That doesn't help to define anything. It just confuses the issue more.

              I am left to conclude that your opinions are based on very little real experience football expertise.
              "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Syvari View Post
                I wouldnt exactly call his break tackle ability a strength. Like I said he often gets arm tackled. Rb should run through those

                Guys give draft grades make mistakes. J. Russel was given a first rnd grade and look how that turned out. He isn't even in the league anymore! Guys underachieve.
                Those arm tackles you are talking about are after he has already been touched 3 or 4 times because of the craptastic blocking.
                sigpic WHEC-724

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Syvari View Post
                  Yes Moreno did not have alot going for him because all the factors like having bad oline etc. However look at the few times he did make it into the open field. This is where a rb should excel because the nature of his position.

                  He isn't fast. He is constantly getting caught from behind

                  He isn't quick enough to elude defenders. He trips over his own two feet. (who does that)

                  He isn't tough enough to break tackles. Moreno is constantly arm tackled!

                  Moreno has poor vision. Watch tape. The the guy runs into a crowd of defenders instead of running for daylight.

                  Can you answer me this one question? Okay. What is Moreno good at?
                  1- he is caught from behind because he never gets to break through a hole a max speed. Go back at all the games and look. The times that he does, no one catches him....Ex- cheifs game, 4th down runs for 25+ for a td...Seattle game- runs for 30 yards tackled by S. Chargers game, 20+ run tackled by S weddle. But no, he is not overly fast, quick acceleration but no 5th gear.

                  2. Why he trips over his own feet I have no clue. I hate that part!! No denying it. the other part- he eludes defenders exceptionally well. Giants game, pats game- two prime examples.

                  3. Knowshon in his rookie year was the LEADER in Yards after Contact. The LEADER- with something like 683 or so. He breaks tackles just fine- Its just common because the haters like to say it but its actually not true at all!!!

                  4. yeah i do and have and have the games. Tell us, what are some examples of holes that he has missed. Now obviously not every RB is going to hit every hole like he should, but for the most part, I can not think of daylight we opened for him, and the times we did i seem to remember him getting through and doing well. Evidence to support this claim please- like specific plays and what not so we can go back and look.



                  Moreno is good at everything, but a master of none. Not elite speed, Not elite strength, Not elite scat back moves....But he is above average in all those areas.

                  If he wasnt, then why did every other runner on this team suck compared to him?
                  So far:
                  FA- Melvin Gordon. Brandon Scherff
                  1. Kenneth Murray LB; 2. Shenault WR; 2B. Biadazz Center, 3. OT

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by underrated29 View Post
                    1- he is caught from behind because he never gets to break through a hole a max speed. Go back at all the games and look. The times that he does, no one catches him....Ex- cheifs game, 4th down runs for 25+ for a td...Seattle game- runs for 30 yards tackled by S. Chargers game, 20+ run tackled by S weddle. But no, he is not overly fast, quick acceleration but no 5th gear.

                    2. Why he trips over his own feet I have no clue. I hate that part!! No denying it. the other part- he eludes defenders exceptionally well. Giants game, pats game- two prime examples.

                    3. Knowshon in his rookie year was the LEADER in Yards after Contact. The LEADER- with something like 683 or so. He breaks tackles just fine- Its just common because the haters like to say it but its actually not true at all!!!

                    4. yeah i do and have and have the games. Tell us, what are some examples of holes that he has missed. Now obviously not every RB is going to hit every hole like he should, but for the most part, I can not think of daylight we opened for him, and the times we did i seem to remember him getting through and doing well. Evidence to support this claim please- like specific plays and what not so we can go back and look.



                    Moreno is good at everything, but a master of none. Not elite speed, Not elite strength, Not elite scat back moves....But he is above average in all those areas.

                    If he wasnt, then why did every other runner on this team suck compared to him?
                    Do we have a hard and fast definition of "bust" yet besides sculpture or a bosom?
                    "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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                    • Josh McDaniel's was the biggest bust to ever get signed by the Denver Broncos!


                      Hell every top RB in this league would've been a 'bust' in the McDBS (McDaniel's Blocking Scheme/System).

                      The only time our running game looked decent was when they would run the ZBS then of course McD would stop using it...because it worked.

                      I think Moreno will do just fine now that we're back in the ZBS.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by samparnell View Post
                        Do we have a hard and fast definition of "bust" yet besides sculpture or a bosom?
                        .....

                        Negatory.
                        So far:
                        FA- Melvin Gordon. Brandon Scherff
                        1. Kenneth Murray LB; 2. Shenault WR; 2B. Biadazz Center, 3. OT

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by samparnell View Post
                          Do we have a hard and fast definition of "bust" yet besides sculpture or a bosom?
                          Anyone drafted in the first two rounds that we don`t like.

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                          • Originally posted by Morningplastic View Post
                            Anyone drafted in the first two rounds that we don`t like.
                            Or more specifically, Josh McDaniels draftees...

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                            • During the 2010 Season ...

                              Originally posted by Mel B. View Post
                              Josh McDaniel's was the biggest bust to ever get signed by the Denver Broncos!


                              Hell every top RB in this league would've been a 'bust' in the McDBS (McDaniel's Blocking Scheme/System).

                              The only time our running game looked decent was when they would run the ZBS then of course McD would stop using it...because it worked.

                              I think Moreno will do just fine now that we're back in the ZBS.
                              ... I noticed some serious flaws in the pass blocking schemes and some in run blocking, too.

                              I think McDaniels' dictatorial approach and abuse toward his assistants made any collegial approach to fixing problems impossible.

                              By the way, I have harped on term definition in this thread. Anyone care to define what they mean by "zone blocking system"?
                              "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by underrated29 View Post
                                And are the other guys on the 2nd worst team in the league, with the worst OL, worst rush attack, worst rush attempts and formerly the worst coach/playcaller?


                                yes, I see that he had more carries, I also see that he had WAAAAYYYYYY more TDs......Those guys can have the yards at the end of the game. I want the points, you know, the things that actually win the game. I could care less if knowshon ran for 15-20 more yards a game- (thats about what it would equal out to)
                                We are also talking about the top 7 Rbs or so right there in the entire NFL. We understand we are now comparing someone who Many claim a bust, to the top 7 out of 32....

                                Thats fair?


                                Worst OLine, woh woh woh woh

                                I think our line is one of our strong points as a team and one of best building blocks we have as a organization

                                Clady is solid of course, I hope we sign him back when the time comes or else we are complete idiots

                                Beadles showed last season he has great potential and got better each game

                                Olsen played fantastic last year as a rookie and proved he could be a pro bowler in the years to come

                                Kuper is a little over paid but is a pretty decent lineman

                                Harris is a solid player as well who is looking to get paid, whic is why i think we picked up franklin who I think is going to come in and do well

                                don't diss our line man

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