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  • #31
    When I watch the games from 2010, I see a lot of bad plays from the LBs. Haggan, Ayers, Hunter. Slow, missing key tackles. That's how the big runs happened. I believe the coaching staff saw the same thing. The 4-3 will add speed to the front seven and the Broncos drafted 3 LBs. to fix the issue.

    The majority of the media and draft analysts just read the news: Broncos release Bannan, J. Williams. And suddenly the team has to draft a DT 2nd overall, even if there is a better player available.

    And Von Miller won't be a SLB 100% of the time. He will also play WLB and DE. He is not just a SLB, he is an edge rusher. After QBs, edge rushers might have been the most coveted players in recent draft history.
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    • #32
      Originally posted by MHSalute View Post
      The 4MM was guaranteed against injury, it was not guaranteed salary for 2011.
      That's the part I am unsure of. Some places say it's guaranteed, some say it is only against injury. I tend to agree with you though.
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      • #33
        Originally posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
        In time, the only way the Miller pick will be justified is if he turns out to be great against the run and averages 8 sacks/season and Fairley/Dareus bust or are just average. If Buffalo sticks in a 3-4 it will be hard to judge Dareus and how effective he might have been in a 4-3. I agree that DT trumps SOLB every time but if Miller produces like Derrick Thomas it will all be worth it though. That's a big IF though.
        I think you pretty much summed it up. If Fairley plays down to everybody's fears and Dareus is simply mediocre and Miller becomes an All-Pro, then the Miller pick would emerge as the best choice -- in retrospect.

        But, it's simply harder to get a DT who's as athletic as Dareus unless you have a top 3 or 4 pick. Denver has had exactly TWO top 4 picks since 1991 and I don't expect them to be picking again in the top 5 this next draft.

        As for LB you could draft a Brian Orakpo at #12, and Clay Matthews fell into the 20's and there are usually elite LBs who fall outside the top 10 and even outside the top 15.

        The bigger the man, the fewer there are who are really fast and athletic. It's just easier to find elite LBs because there are more men 6'2" and 240 than 6'4" and 320 who are quick and agile.

        THAT's why they should have drafted Dareus instead of Miller.
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        • #34
          Originally posted by Cugel View Post
          I'm not going to wait because EVERY single 4-3 defense in the NFL that is any good has GOOD young DTs!

          All the decision to re-sign Bannan and Thomas and Williams means is that the Broncos are entering the 2011 season with the same piece of CRAP set of DTs who stunk up the joint last season!

          THAT is why fans and writers and sports commentators have been critical of the Broncos for passing on a DT in the draft when they had multiple chances to get a great one.

          And it IS going to bite them in the ass. And NO. The "we can't do everything in one off-season" line doesn't cut it.

          When you have the #2 draft pick you start with the HARDEST position to fill -- and that's DT and NOT strong-side LB (which they announced in the Post today that Miller will play -- no surprise there).

          Wait till the season starts and you see teams running wild on the Broncos!

          THEN maybe all the homers will be singing a different tune! ("Gee. Maybe they should have drafted a DT so he could start learning THIS season instead of waiting until next year which means it will be 2013 before he's any good!")
          I'd rather go with vets and guys that are 27-28 then any rookie DT in the draft, your gonna see only two DT that are gonna make a difference and
          That's because darius is paired with Kyle Williams and fairley is paired with suh not a single other DT is gonna do anything for the first couple years so why draft one in your first year and try to lean on them. Best thing to do is get some younger guys like Thomas and mcdonald and get some vets like bannan and Williams and then next year draft a young guy you won't have to lean on
          A healthy Kenneth Dixon is a top 5 NFL RB.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Roddoliver View Post
            When I watch the games from 2010, I see a lot of bad plays from the LBs. Haggan, Ayers, Hunter. Slow, missing key tackles. That's how the big runs happened. I believe the coaching staff saw the same thing. The 4-3 will add speed to the front seven and the Broncos drafted 3 LBs. to fix the issue.

            The majority of the media and draft analysts just read the news: Broncos release Bannan, J. Williams. And suddenly the team has to draft a DT 2nd overall, even if there is a better player available.

            And Von Miller won't be a SLB 100% of the time. He will also play WLB and DE. He is not just a SLB, he is an edge rusher. After QBs, edge rushers might have been the most coveted players in recent draft history.
            I don't buy the idea that Miller will be a DE at all. Maybe in a 5 man front he might line up on the end but I highly doubt he will be a DE in a 4 man front, even on 3rd down. I understand your point but there are very very few 4-3 OLB who make much of an impact in rushing the passer. The coveted pass rushers you speak mof are true 4-3 DEs or 3-4 OLB, not 4-3 OLB.
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            • #36
              What everybody should remember is that we dominated against the run for a good part of our 2008 season with complete and utter garbage for our defensive line. Yeah we tailed off hardcore near the end, culminating in Jamaal Charles taking huge dumps all over our defense, but the point was we made it work there for a good part of that season.

              It's not always about having supreme athletes who dominate like nobodies business. For every Suh that gets 60 tackles and 11 sacks there's three Aaron Smith's that simply play hard-nosed football within a WELL COACHED system. I don't see any top 5 freak of nature players on the Steelers defensive line, they're just good players that fit perfectly within their role of a defense.

              Same goes for the Jets, where are the dominant forces on their defensive line? I can barely even name any of them outside of Kris Jenkins who retired today and hasn't played for the last two years.

              Would I love to have a guy like Suh? Well yeah duh of course I would. However I can settle for a well coached front 7 with a well coached good but not dominant front 4 that tears up against the run.

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              • #37
                What I really think we need is just some stability. Get a coach in there (Fox) who knows what he's doing, and find a true leader of a LB. We were beasts against the run for a good stretch of time not too many years ago, and the only guy we had on the D-line was Trevor Pryce. However, we had a good coach, and we had a guy named Al Wilson, and we were great.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Cugel View Post
                  I think you pretty much summed it up. If Fairley plays down to everybody's fears and Dareus is simply mediocre and Miller becomes an All-Pro, then the Miller pick would emerge as the best choice -- in retrospect.

                  But, it's simply harder to get a DT who's as athletic as Dareus unless you have a top 3 or 4 pick. Denver has had exactly TWO top 4 picks since 1991 and I don't expect them to be picking again in the top 5 this next draft.

                  As for LB you could draft a Brian Orakpo at #12, and Clay Matthews fell into the 20's and there are usually elite LBs who fall outside the top 10 and even outside the top 15.

                  The bigger the man, the fewer there are who are really fast and athletic. It's just easier to find elite LBs because there are more men 6'2" and 240 than 6'4" and 320 who are quick and agile.

                  THAT's why they should have drafted Dareus instead of Miller.
                  My picks for SOLB were Mason Foster and McCarthy. I don't think they will be much, if any, worse than Miller and they went 3rd and 4th round.

                  I understand the Broncos need/wanted more of a pass rush but getting that from an OLB is pretty rare. People say they will be creative and put him in position to be successful...all the coaches in the NFL are creative and yet we rarely see that. There must be some reason for it.

                  IMO, if they wanted more of a pass rush they should have taken dareus who would get a push in the middle, unlike most other DT, and then traded up for Kerrigan in the first and/or taken Bowers in the second when they had a chance.

                  It is what is though and we will have to live with the decisions they made and hope for the best.
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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
                    My picks for SOLB were Mason Foster and McCarthy. I don't think they will be much, if any, worse than Miller and they went 3rd and 4th round.

                    I understand the Broncos need/wanted more of a pass rush but getting that from an OLB is pretty rare. People say they will be creative and put him in position to be successful...all the coaches in the NFL are creative and yet we rarely see that. There must be some reason for it.

                    IMO, if they wanted more of a pass rush they should have taken dareus who would get a push in the middle, unlike most other DT, and then traded up for Kerrigan in the first and/or taken Bowers in the second when they had a chance.

                    It is what is though and we will have to live with the decisions they made and hope for the best.
                    I've never been sold on Dareus. I rarely, if ever, saw him get a good pass rush in college, I don't see why he'd all of a sudden do it in the NFL. Many scouts deemed his as a possible 2 down DT. I never saw the athleticism people raved about either. He was a good athlete who was extremely well polished and coached. I would have taken Fairley over him in a heartbeat.

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                    • #40
                      I think Von Miller will play DE in a 4-man front. Robert Mathis is 6'2 245. That's Miller's height and current weight. And he will probably be able to play at 250 as he gets older and adapts to a professional training routine. On passing downs, Miller will occasionally put his hand on the ground. There will also be 3-man fronts with Miller lining up like a 3-4 OLB. The gameplan will be designed towards finding mismatches and sending Miller after the QB.
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                      • #41
                        What's with all the Jamal Williams hate guys?

                        He could be a solid, space eater at NT this season, is that not something you guys are interested in?

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by SoundsOfSuccess View Post
                          What's with all the Jamal Williams hate guys?

                          He could be a solid, space eater at NT this season, is that not something you guys are interested in?
                          I wouldn't be against brining him back, and Fox did something similar in bringing in Hollis Thomas in 2009. I think most of us would just be against us only signing Williams. If we sign him to be a back up/rotational player then that would be fine. I just don't want to rely on him as a starter next to Vickerson.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Hoserman117 View Post
                            I've never been sold on Dareus. I rarely, if ever, saw him get a good pass rush in college, I don't see why he'd all of a sudden do it in the NFL. Many scouts deemed his as a possible 2 down DT. I never saw the athleticism people raved about either. He was a good athlete who was extremely well polished and coached. I would have taken Fairley over him in a heartbeat.
                            I'm with you 100%, Dareus was a work out warrior he put up good combine numbers(not better than Fairley or Austin) and when he played the 4-3 he was less than stellar. In terms of 4-3 DT I had him 4th.

                            Fairley
                            Wilkerson
                            Paea
                            Dareus
                            Austin(didn't play senior season)

                            Now looking at it he was a better 3-4DE
                            What's the difference between ignorance and apathy?
                            I don't know and I don't care

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                            • #44
                              Honestly jamal williams in the second half of the season was much improved over jamal williams from the first half. And bringing back bannon would make sense. Bannon and vickerson both can be very viable options in a 4-3, which in and of itself is a friendlier scheme to the interior defensive linemen. That said I would still be game for one big name dt like mcbane, cofield, or whoever. Hopefully these vets will buy us a couple years to groom some dt's we draft next april.
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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Hoserman117 View Post
                                I've never been sold on Dareus. I rarely, if ever, saw him get a good pass rush in college, I don't see why he'd all of a sudden do it in the NFL. Many scouts deemed his as a possible 2 down DT. I never saw the athleticism people raved about either. He was a good athlete who was extremely well polished and coached. I would have taken Fairley over him in a heartbeat.
                                I don't think he would be a good pass rusher. I think he would be able to collapse the middle of the pocket leaving little room for the QB to go when the edge rush comes. Most teams have edge rushers who can get close to the QB but if the QB can just step up and avoid it, it makes little difference. That's where the value in someone like Dareus would come in. Good against the run and able to collapse the pocket on passing downs, not as a pass rusher himself. Just my opinion.
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