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John Fox's Tenure and Control in Carolina

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  • John Fox's Tenure and Control in Carolina

    With today's DP article talking about how Bowlen is very comfortable with Fox, I wanted to see if people here could shed some more light on John Fox's tenure in Carolina. Just because he went 2-14 last season, we know that he wasn't entirely responsible for that happening as the article points out that his assistants' contracts weren't renewed after the 2008 season. What I'm really trying to understand is how much control over the roster/personnel Fox had vs. Carolina GM Marty Hurney during his coaching tenure there. Anyone know how much control Fox had over the draft vs. Hurney during his years there? If Fox coached with the scraps that were given to him, that speaks much higher of his coaching abilities than it does if he helped make some of the poor decisions that led to the 2-14 season. Thanks in advance for any insights on the subject.

  • #2
    The problem with Fox is his inconsistency. He does great one year, so-so (or REALLY awful) the next.

    His whole career has been pretty much winning season followed by a losing or 8-8 season.

    Top level coaches never seem to have that problem. Yes, they have crappy seasons like everyone else but always seem to be in the hunt more often than not.

    Maybe he fixes that here. Who knows...
    Forum "credibility" is the same as writing articles for "The Bleacher Report"

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    • #3
      Originally posted by rocks View Post
      The problem with Fox is his inconsistency. He does great one year, so-so (or REALLY awful) the next.

      His whole career has been pretty much winning season followed by a losing or 8-8 season.

      Top level coaches never seem to have that problem. Yes, they have crappy seasons like everyone else but always seem to be in the hunt more often than not.

      Maybe he fixes that here. Who knows...
      It is little hard to grade a coach off just his record. Lots of things come into play.

      Like how many players did his squads retain year in and year especially his front lines.

      How did injuries effect the season how players slumps effect a season.

      How much support do you get from your front office.

      There are just so many variables to look at record and say a guy is not good or just plain sucks.
      People should not be afraid of their governments, governments should be afraid of their people.



      sigpic

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      • #4
        So far what every Panther fan has told us has been the polar opposite of what has happened in camp and preseason. For me, I judge a HC based on the coaches he employs. He is like a General and is only as good as his officers. Here is his staff:

        OC - Colt McCoy (hold over and ex Panther)
        DC - Dennis Allen (New hire)
        OL - David Magazu (from Panthers)
        DL - Wayne Nunnely (hold over)
        RB - Eric Studesville (hold over)
        QB - Adam Gase (hold over)
        WR - Tyke Tolbert (from Panthers)
        LB - Richard Smith (from Panthers)
        DB - Ron Milus (from Panthers)

        So judge for yourself. I think he has surrounded himself with some good guys and I particularly like Richard Smith & David Magazu.

        I think him retaining most of the offensive staff also was a very good decision. I would love to see us keep this staff together for 3 years, maybe longer.
        Last edited by MHSalute; 08-26-2011, 11:21 AM.
        Ravens GM 2016 - Ravens are looking to trade down 4-8 spots

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        • #5
          I live close to the Panthers, attend their training camps, and have generally decried Fox for years.

          I like him (as a person and as a coach), but he is almost single-handedly responsible for the Panthers building around Jake Delhomme for years. He was in a bro-mance with Jake Delhomme.

          He was wrong about Jake Delhomme. The signs were there that he should have been developing another quarterback all along. (I think he halfway tried, but didn't succeed).

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          • #6
            lol the problem with fox are you guys high???? it wasnt fox it was his lame ass owner and GM that were the problem......players still played tough for him right till the end depsite the record......

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            • #7
              Don't forget ...

              Originally posted by MHSalute View Post
              So far what every Panther fan has told us has been the polar opposite of what has happened in camp and preseason. For me, I judge a HC based on the coaches he employs. He is like a General and is only as good as his officers. Here is his staff:

              OC - Colt McCoy (hold over and ex Panther)
              DC - Dennis Allen (New hire)
              OL - David Magazu (from Panthers)
              DL - Wayne Nunnely (hold over)
              RB - Eric Studesville (hold over)
              QB - Adam Gase (hold over)
              WR - Tyke Tolbert (from Panthers)
              LB - Richard Smith (from Panthers)
              DB - Ron Milus (from Panthers)

              So judge for yourself. I think he has surrounded himself with some good guys and I particularly like Richard Smith & David Magazu.

              I think him retaining most of the offensive staff also was a very good decision. I would love to see us keep this staff together for 3 years, maybe longer.
              ... Jeff Rodgers (ST from Panthers), Clancy Barone (TEs hold over and former Chargers), Keith Burns (ST hold over and ex-Bronco), Brian Callahan (O hold over), Sam Garnes (DBs from Panthers), and Jay Rodgers (D hold over).

              ps Mike McCoy
              Last edited by samparnell; 08-26-2011, 05:37 PM.
              "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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              • #8
                Originally posted by MHSalute View Post
                So far what every Panther fan has told us has been the polar opposite of what has happened in camp and preseason. For me, I judge a HC based on the coaches he employs. He is like a General and is only as good as his officers. Here is his staff:

                OC - Colt McCoy (hold over and ex Panther)
                DC - Dennis Allen (New hire)
                OL - David Magazu (from Panthers)
                DL - Wayne Nunnely (hold over)
                RB - Eric Studesville (hold over)
                QB - Adam Gase (hold over)
                WR - Tyke Tolbert (from Panthers)
                LB - Richard Smith (from Panthers)
                DB - Ron Milus (from Panthers)

                So judge for yourself. I think he has surrounded himself with some good guys and I particularly like Richard Smith & David Magazu.

                I think him retaining most of the offensive staff also was a very good decision. I would love to see us keep this staff together for 3 years, maybe longer.
                Yeah.. this team needs CONSISTANCY... especially on Defense.

                too many defensive schemes/co-ordinators in not many years.

                Push, shove, grab... do whatever..
                but just keep doing it the same way
                and let the team grow into the system...
                - Go Broncos 2017 and Beyond! -

                Super Bowl 50 CHAMPIONS!

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                • #9
                  OK, so the question wasn't whether or not Fox was the right pick, but whether or not he had much say over what happened in Carolina when he was there - especially with personnel decisions. If he was simply trying to make lemonade out of lemons year in and year out, that could speak volumes for his coaching abilities. Anyone know what the real situation was there?

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                  • #10
                    Fox had full control over who he hired on his staff, tisk Jeff Davidson, however he had some input over the draft. And so did Hurney I believe Hurney had more control over the draft/scouting than Fox. I believe Jeff Davidson was the downfall of Fox, he was horrible on all accounts, So after a 2-14 season that was the last straw with Hurney and Jerry Richardson and they decided he would not be extended as a HC.
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                    • #11
                      So, Fox made some poor choices for OC? Sounds like the problem we had on defense (Bob Slowik - OUCH). So, was it Fox who wanted to stick with Delhomme or was it Hurney? Thanks for the info. Black.

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                      • #12
                        It was a bad organization. Fox is a good coach.
                        So far, I am very pleased with what he has done here. I am wondering why there are people trying to dig up dirt on him. He's our guy. Stand behind him.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by BeavisBronco View Post
                          With today's DP article talking about how Bowlen is very comfortable with Fox, I wanted to see if people here could shed some more light on John Fox's tenure in Carolina. Just because he went 2-14 last season, we know that he wasn't entirely responsible for that happening as the article points out that his assistants' contracts weren't renewed after the 2008 season. What I'm really trying to understand is how much control over the roster/personnel Fox had vs. Carolina GM Marty Hurney during his coaching tenure there. Anyone know how much control Fox had over the draft vs. Hurney during his years there? If Fox coached with the scraps that were given to him, that speaks much higher of his coaching abilities than it does if he helped make some of the poor decisions that led to the 2-14 season. Thanks in advance for any insights on the subject.
                          I have often wondered this too. Such as Delhomme for instance. People say Fox is a vet lover and wouldn't gamble on his QB position. Well how much power did foxxy really have? If Delhomme was all he could really work with, then of course he wasn't going to can him.

                          This is actually a good thread. One I have considered for a while now

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Jay3 View Post
                            I live close to the Panthers, attend their training camps, and have generally decried Fox for years.

                            I like him (as a person and as a coach), but he is almost single-handedly responsible for the Panthers building around Jake Delhomme for years. He was in a bro-mance with Jake Delhomme.

                            He was wrong about Jake Delhomme. The signs were there that he should have been developing another quarterback all along. (I think he halfway tried, but didn't succeed).
                            I'll take this guys word over anyone else's.

                            In the end, you only have the win-loss record (78-74 is not great) to prove your worth as a head coach. Forrest Gregg got the Bengals to a Super Bowl and that was it, FWIW.
                            11/22/11

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                            • #15
                              Well, if you look at Belichicks time in Cleveland vs. New England, there's a large discrepency over his coaching records. Scott Pioli really helped build a solid team (as I think he's doing with KC unfortunately for us). A good coach can only polish a turd so much, but in the end it's still a turd. If Fox wasn't given much to work with, then I'm even more impressed with what he did there.

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