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  • "He's a winner"

    Hey, would you look at that? A tebow thread!


    regarding the phrase that gets thrown around here more than any other, what does that even mean?

    This is not a knock on any QB on our roster. I just want to know what you mean when you say tebow is a winner (maybe that concept is foreign to me, as a broncos fan )

    Does winning at a high school and college level transfer over into the pro's? Kellen Moore is on track to have the most wins by any QB ever in NCAA, or very close to it (I think he'll get it). Does that make him a "winner"? Does that mean he will be a great NFL QB and be a "Winner" in the nfl?

    I just don't get that argument at all.

    Not saying tebow doesn't like to win, everybody does. But calling him a winner is kinda premature.

    Tom Brady wasn't a "winner", neither was Rod Smith and a bunch of other fellas. Although Brady and Smith are incredibly smart... which helped them become winners in the pros.

    What makes him a winner? Maybe I'm understanding it wrong.


    *NOT AN ARGUMENT AGAINST TEBOW*

  • #2
    what makes him a winner is he puts forth as much effort as he can and won't let his team lose. I go to UF and was here after the Ole Miss loss when he said he won't ever let them play bad again and wont ever see a team and a player play harder for the rest of the year. What do you know we won a title. He has the IT. Can't knock on Kellen Moore but you don't see that drive in many players.
    From Lafayette, enough with this bandwagon nonsense.

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    • #3
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sGv2...eature=related
      From Lafayette, enough with this bandwagon nonsense.

      Comment


      • #4
        But orton was a winner with the bears now he's a winner here....















        At practice




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        • #5
          I look at being a "winner" in the same way that you can make a distinction between calling somebody a "quarterback" or a "wide receiver" or a "linebacker" and instead you can call them a "football player".

          It means they might always do what they're supposed to do or how they're supposed to do it, but they always make that one play when you need it most to win you the game. I think Tebow is a "winner" in that sense.

          Of course, there are different types of winners. There are cerebral winners (Brady, Manning, etc.) and there are the types of winners that you see with Tebow, Elway, etc.

          Not that I think Tebow is as good as Elway, but as far as being considered "football players" and "winners", they do it largely the same way.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by 12and4 View Post
            Hey, would you look at that? A tebow thread!


            regarding the phrase that gets thrown around here more than any other, what does that even mean?

            This is not a knock on any QB on our roster. I just want to know what you mean when you say tebow is a winner (maybe that concept is foreign to me, as a broncos fan )

            Does winning at a high school and college level transfer over into the pro's? Kellen Moore is on track to have the most wins by any QB ever in NCAA, or very close to it (I think he'll get it). Does that make him a "winner"? Does that mean he will be a great NFL QB and be a "Winner" in the nfl?

            I just don't get that argument at all.

            Not saying tebow doesn't like to win, everybody does. But calling him a winner is kinda premature.

            Tom Brady wasn't a "winner", neither was Rod Smith and a bunch of other fellas. Although Brady and Smith are incredibly smart... which helped them become winners in the pros.

            What makes him a winner? Maybe I'm understanding it wrong.


            *NOT AN ARGUMENT AGAINST TEBOW*
            I think you have to have experienced him in college to really understand it. he just does whatever he has to do to win .

            when UF lost to GA and GA did that classless celebration thing it burned in him until the next year and he tore them apart.

            When Percy Harvin hurt his ankle on a hit from FSU and their fans cheered that he was hurt Tebow demanded that he run the ball cause "he wanted to hit someone" ..Bobby Bowden said after the game that he had never seen 1 man drag so many defenders into the end zone.

            When Tebow took over his sophmore year the team wasnt a cohesive unit and it really showed on the field Tebow recruited some other guys viewed as leaders and together they made that team a family and almost unstopable.

            and we cant forget "the promise" He didnt shrug off that loss ..he took ownership of it even though it wasnt really his fault but he owned it and we did not lose another game until the sec championship the following year.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by 12and4 View Post
              Hey, would you look at that? A tebow thread!


              regarding the phrase that gets thrown around here more than any other, what does that even mean?

              This is not a knock on any QB on our roster. I just want to know what you mean when you say tebow is a winner (maybe that concept is foreign to me, as a broncos fan )

              Does winning at a high school and college level transfer over into the pro's? Kellen Moore is on track to have the most wins by any QB ever in NCAA, or very close to it (I think he'll get it). Does that make him a "winner"? Does that mean he will be a great NFL QB and be a "Winner" in the nfl?

              I just don't get that argument at all.

              Not saying tebow doesn't like to win, everybody does. But calling him a winner is kinda premature.

              Tom Brady wasn't a "winner", neither was Rod Smith and a bunch of other fellas. Although Brady and Smith are incredibly smart... which helped them become winners in the pros.

              What makes him a winner? Maybe I'm understanding it wrong.


              *NOT AN ARGUMENT AGAINST TEBOW*
              Orton was supposedly a winner until he came to Denver. Everyone quoted his record there but no one questioned why Chicago was willing to unload "a winner". People see what they want to see and it is my opinion that the "winner" statement is just used to prove he has overcome every hurdle he has been given and done it well. Which is essentially their way of saying, if A and B, then obviously C. I like who Tebow is as a person and I want to see him get his shot but if he isn't the guy he isn't the guy. That being said, we need to find out if he can be that guy because this crap that is going out on the field every Sunday is getting absurd.

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              • #8
                IDK but,.......

                There are people that go through the motions and "see if IT will happen"
                and there are people that make it happen, actually "will IT to happen"

                Do you work any where?

                Look around the office or shop and you'll see the people that go through the motions and "see if IT happens" and you'll see the people that "make IT happen".

                While some people are busy saying IT's impossible.
                Someone else is doing IT.

                Even when IT is actually impossible.
                There is someone trying to obtain that impossible IT or DIE trying.

                Some people have IT and some don't. Those who don't have IT trigger defense mechanisms when they see someone that does.

                We were all born equal (generically speaking, actually even before birth some genetics make one better then another) but, through the process of natural selection some people ARE (become) better then others.
                Last edited by marcus_miller; 09-30-2011, 04:26 PM.
                I hate the Defenseless Receiver rule and the fines. Posted since '07. 2011 rule addition :nono: backhand a fool!

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by 12and4 View Post
                  Hey, would you look at that? A tebow thread!


                  regarding the phrase that gets thrown around here more than any other, what does that even mean?
                  *
                  It's not an extrapolation based on statistics or winning games, in the numerical sense. I've watched almost every snap he's ever taken.

                  It's a comment on Tebow's overall talent and athletic ability. His reaction time, instincts, and coordination give him a great ability to do "that which needs to be done." He tends to be hard to tackle, he tends to protect the ball, he tends to be willing to throw the ball down the field, but does not throw interceptions at a high right.

                  He tends to stay "on schedule" in terms of down and distance. What others are seeing as a tendency to "take off" from the pocket (which is a valid criticism), grows from a long standing habit he formed: if it's not there, get a few yards if you can. 2d and 7 is better than 2 and 10. If it happens again, 3rd 4 is better than 3rd and 7. You've seen how he is on the goal line -- he tries to have every set of downs end with at least a shot of picking up the first as if it were a goal line play (including going for it on 4th). Over the course of a game, this adds up. Tebow led offenses tend to have deceptively high rates of scoring.

                  His aerobic and muscular conditioning is, I think, in a world class league with Lance Armstrong. Tebow almost always gets better over the course of a game, stronger, and faster compared to everyone else. When everyone else is tired, he looks fresh. This has a statistical tendency to produce winning. Notice the 17 point second half last year, or the two drives against the Chargers.

                  He has a freakish level of accuracy on the long ball. For whatever reason, his mechanics are conducive to the long throws. This means that he is hard to beat, because if you get ahead, you will see the longer, more gambling throws. And he has a propensity to complete them. (Plus, his tendency to run for first downs tends to bring the defense in and draw single coverage somewhere at 20+ yards, so he dumps it over the top).


                  Most of all, most importantly -- he's just an athletic guy in terms of his reactions. His running ability stems from that, but it also translates into throwing and scrambling. He has a set of instincts (or maybe just decision-making) that minimizes bad plays and maximizes good ones (or at least non-bad ones).

                  That's a reason why it seems he looks bad in preseason, but you look at the stat-line and it wasn't. Or why it seemed like he struggled against the Chargers (and he did), but he ends up putting an impressive amount of points on the board, with a hail mary attempt to win it. (Not a win, but the tendency was there).

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                  • #10
                    I go by him being mic'd up on the Houston Texans game, he get's pumped!
                    It's that attitude, it fires people up.
                    Of course, I wish they had one of Orton, but maybe he'll get his chance, see him actually in a game, if he is pumped or not.

                    I say it is more attitude than actual wins.
                    sigpic

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Hoserman117 View Post
                      I look at being a "winner" in the same way that you can make a distinction between calling somebody a "quarterback" or a "wide receiver" or a "linebacker" and instead you can call them a "football player".

                      It means they might always do what they're supposed to do or how they're supposed to do it, but they always make that one play when you need it most to win you the game. I think Tebow is a "winner" in that sense.

                      Of course, there are different types of winners. There are cerebral winners (Brady, Manning, etc.) and there are the types of winners that you see with Tebow, Elway, etc.

                      Not that I think Tebow is as good as Elway, but as far as being considered "football players" and "winners", they do it largely the same way.
                      Well, in respect to elway, tebow has yet to prove he is a winner. We can't just throw that around. Elway EARNED it. Tebow is being given it by the fans. Hopefully he will earn it as well.

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                      • #12
                        I don't know what's the "winner" argument. Maybe people think that Tebow will keep the team alive with his plays and show leadership. Keep his head up high until the final whistle, bringing a more intense energy to the game. Maybe a "winner" means a really good football player that can inspire the rest of the team. But I'm not sure. "He is a winner just because he is a winner, he just wins" is not a valid argument.

                        I don't buy the "intangibles" argument. Because the desire, work ethic, etc... It's something that almost every starting QB must have in the NFL. There will be a Michael Vick, who did not prepare like he should in Atlanta, or Vince Young with the Titans, and their natural abilities allowed them to start in the NFL. But usually the starting QB has the intangibles to work hard, be prepared and lead his team on the field. It's not an uncommon trait.

                        And I don't want to turn this thread into P&R but I'm an atheist, so I don't care about Tebow's religion, I don't support him because of his beliefs.

                        I like him simply because I think he is a really good football player. I like the "tangibles". He is tough, plays with intensity and his skills make me feel that a big play can happen any time. The guy is aggressive on the field, he takes on defenders, likes to throw deep and throws a good deep ball. Makes plays with his legs. Had a 40-yard TD run in his first start after people said he would not be able to run in the NFL. Ran for 199 yards in 3 games.

                        He likes to run over defenders and I think the OL and the rest of the offene feed off his attitude. You can put a nasty DL against him and he does not care. And he is just scratching the surface of the player he can become. Everything else will come with experience. He will get better the more he plays. Tebow is more talented than any other QB on the roster and I don't think he will improve on the bench or just watching game film.

                        Tebow must learn how to use proper footwork under pressure. How to be accurate on intermediate routes under pressure. Release the ball quicker under pressure. When the bullets are flying, not when he is wearing shorts and throwing to a WR that's wearing pajamas. I have no doubt that he will become a starting QB, he just needs to play and grow with the experience. I just don't know where he will get the opportunity.
                        sigpic

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Terrell Davis
                          “Yeah, he (Tebow) should be the guy right now,” Davis told the NFL Network. “We’ve seen Kyle Orton play. He’s probably maxed out on his talent. He’s a good quarterback, but ya know I think Tim brings something a little special to the table. Obviously he’s an athletic quarterback. He’s exciting to watch. He gives the Broncos the best chance to win right now. And I’m saying that.”

                          “When Tim came out of college, I was one of the skeptics who thought his game didn’t translate well to the NFL game,” Davis said. “But he has intangibles that you just can’t buy. He’s a winner. And watching him last year, the last three games he did play, you know, he just finds a way to get the job done. When he does that, he just elevates everybody’s game around him and so, yeah, I became a fan.”

                          “You know it’s like the Michael Jordan effect,” Davis said. “When Michael plays, how do(es) everybody else around you play? Forget how Tim is playing. He wasn’t great all the time. But when you see everybody else around him and how he motivated everybody else to play well, that’s the true sign of a champion, the true sign of a winner.”
                          10 char
                          Last edited by lolcopter; 09-30-2011, 02:24 PM. Reason: TD#30 > *

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by 12and4 View Post
                            Well, in respect to elway, tebow has yet to prove he is a winner. We can't just throw that around. Elway EARNED it. Tebow is being given it by the fans. Hopefully he will earn it as well.
                            Elway was given the opportunity to earn it. He struggled quite a bit in his first few years. Most franchise qb's are born from a team commiting to them early, and giving them time and resources to make them successful. Where do you think the Patriots would be if they kept Bledsoe and shipped off Brady? What if the Colts shipped off Manning, because he was struggling for his first few years?

                            Even when these franchise rookies struggled early, they were kept and given chances because you could see the flashes of greatness, along with their physical ability. In the limited time we've seen Tebow, he's already had alot of flashes of "franchise" ability, along with normal rookie mistakes. I'd go into more detail, but I think Jay3 said it about as well as it can be said.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by LSIGRAD09 View Post
                              I go by him being mic'd up on the Houston Texans game, he get's pumped!
                              It's that attitude, it fires people up.
                              Of course, I wish they had one of Orton, but maybe he'll get his chance, see him actually in a game, if he is pumped or not.

                              I say it is more attitude than actual wins.
                              I think this post makes the most sense of all the other ones.

                              Some people brought up college games, which doesn't matter much at all to me in the Pros since it is very very different.

                              Yes, he has fire and an obvious love for the game. He does get very pumped up in the heat of battle.

                              I remember during that mic'd up game he said "theres only one person that gets the ball here" or something to that effect. Some people liked him saying it, but I think it wasn't what a coach would want to hear, since it comes off a little selfish and shows a lack of confidence in the rest of the team. If the coach thinks we should run the ball, you don't tell the coach "no coach I'd rather punch it in myself".

                              thats just the way I saw it and maybe I am reading into that too much... but I don't like the QB saying that at all.

                              Hopefully that fire he experiences late in games doesn't effect his game. Hopefully it doesn't bring back his happy feet and impatience.

                              I'm not yet ready to see tebow in the game (i know, how dumb right??).. I don't think of it as "tebow's on the bench" but rather "our backup is ready to go if our starter doesn't play right".

                              It's not a matter of me liking orton more than tebow, but rather me supporting the starting QB over the backup (who, historically, always gets all the fans praise).

                              In a general sense, I bet its awesome being a backup QB, getting credit for things you don't do and never having to actually play... but when you have to go out there, oh lord you better produce or you'll get the ax quicker than the starter.


                              I guess i've been thinking of it wrong when people call him a winner... because he's not a winner... yet. but he is passionate. He does want to improve. It's just a matter of if he will or not.

                              It just may turn out that he doesn't produce this year, and we have no choice but to let him go and find another guy that can hop into the system and produce quickly, while not having a big future with the franchise (orton 2.0). This team is close to being great and we need a QB that can handle the greatness right away.

                              If that be the case then so be it, but I'd rather we find our franchise QB for the next 15 or so years sooner rather than later, or we'll be in a downward spiral for another 5 or so years

                              I think the reason some of you guys put so much faith in tebow is because we NEED him to be as good as we SAY he is. thats what the team needs DESPERATELY.

                              this is a random ass post that is all over the map just disregard it unless you have nothing better to do

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