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  • Football 101

    Greetings!

    I have recently taken an interest in football and have been trying to learn more about the game. This has been a rough couple years to become a Broncos fan, but I love Denver and I respect this team's history, so here I am.

    I have been learning about football from the ground up; I knew almost nothing about the game. I have been reading lots of sites and bugging my friends with silly questions, so I was hoping you guys would be able to help me out.

    I wanted to start a thread where I and others could discuss the game itself; the basics, the rules, and the nuances. I have been surprised that what is essentially a simple game has so many fine points and I have discovered that a few of my friends who have followed the game for years are confused by some of these details.

    So, my first question is about a I was watching a game and my friend said, "are you kidding me? The wishbone?" and acted extremely offended and ashamed of what he was witnessing. He was too upset to tell me what was going on.

    Could someone explain to me: What is a wishbone, why did we do it, and why was my friend weeping?

  • #2
    Originally posted by Pistachia View Post
    Greetings!

    I have recently taken an interest in football and have been trying to learn more about the game. This has been a rough couple years to become a Broncos fan, but I love Denver and I respect this team's history, so here I am.

    I have been learning about football from the ground up; I knew almost nothing about the game. I have been reading lots of sites and bugging my friends with silly questions, so I was hoping you guys would be able to help me out.

    I wanted to start a thread where I and others could discuss the game itself; the basics, the rules, and the nuances. I have been surprised that what is essentially a simple game has so many fine points and I have discovered that a few of my friends who have followed the game for years are confused by some of these details.

    So, my first question is about a I was watching a game and my friend said, "are you kidding me? The wishbone?" and acted extremely offended and ashamed of what he was witnessing. He was too upset to tell me what was going on.

    Could someone explain to me: What is a wishbone, why did we do it, and why was my friend weeping?
    The Wishbone is a formation with 2 WR a FB and 2 RBs. It's meant to run a triple option with the FB acting as lead blocker. I know that might not make a ton of sense, but here is the wiki page. It's more eloquent than I am, and a little light reading never killed anyone. (That I'm aware of.)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wishbone_formation
    "People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."
    - Soren Aabye Kierkegaard

    "Try to learn something about everything and everything about something."
    - Thomas Henry Huxley

    Go BRONCOS!

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Pistachia View Post
      Greetings!

      I have recently taken an interest in football and have been trying to learn more about the game. This has been a rough couple years to become a Broncos fan, but I love Denver and I respect this team's history, so here I am.

      I have been learning about football from the ground up; I knew almost nothing about the game. I have been reading lots of sites and bugging my friends with silly questions, so I was hoping you guys would be able to help me out.

      I wanted to start a thread where I and others could discuss the game itself; the basics, the rules, and the nuances. I have been surprised that what is essentially a simple game has so many fine points and I have discovered that a few of my friends who have followed the game for years are confused by some of these details.

      So, my first question is about a I was watching a game and my friend said, "are you kidding me? The wishbone?" and acted extremely offended and ashamed of what he was witnessing. He was too upset to tell me what was going on.

      Could someone explain to me: What is a wishbone, why did we do it, and why was my friend weeping?
      I think only your friend's therapist can answer that one.
      sigpic

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      • #4
        Ok, thanks for the link.

        Here is what I got, from the last paragraph of the article: The wishbone formation has been obsolete, even at the high school and college levels since 1971. My friend was upset (no, he wasn't actually shedding tears) because he was shocked to see an NFL team in 2011 using a formation that was effectively destroyed by a high school coach 40 years ago.

        So, does anyone have a theory regarding why we did that?
        Last edited by Pistachia; 10-31-2011, 07:34 PM.

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        • #5
          How would you defend the Broncos?

          Not many NFL teams run it, but I'd try a 44 Stack. Have the ends run contain, and shoot the gaps while pressing the receivers. Cover 2, so safeties have the deep help while the Sam and Rover cover the flat on obvious passing downs.

          Anyone else have any schemes?
          sigpic

          Hooray, beer!

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          • #6
            We don't run the wishbone, or at least I've never seen it. Can someone explain what they're talking about when they say we've run the wishbone? Triple option is not the same thing as the wishbone.
            sigpic
            Thank you to my grandfather jetrazor for being a veteran of the armed forces!

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            • #7
              The 4-3 is the way to go in dealing with the option. The Ends needs to squeeze down but keep there shoulders square. The ends have to stay tight to the tackles and be disiplined enough to ignore the back diving into the line. (Jets game a great example, the end bit and Tebow ran around him for a game winning TD)

              The sam LB becomes the C gap defender on the strong side and a safety is down on the pitch guy.

              There should be an overload on the guard thus collapsing things fast.

              this is why the Vikings might be tough. They are built to defend us.
              sigpic

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              • #8
                Originally posted by EddieMac View Post
                The 4-3 is the way to go in dealing with the option. The Ends needs to squeeze down but keep there shoulders square. The ends have to stay tight to the tackles and be disiplined enough to ignore the back diving into the line. (Jets game a great example, the end bit and Tebow ran around him for a game winning TD)

                The sam LB becomes the C gap defender on the strong side and a safety is down on the pitch guy.

                There should be an overload on the guard thus collapsing things fast.

                this is why the Vikings might be tough. They are built to defend us.
                Ok, but are you talking about the wishbone or triple option? Defending the two are not the same.
                sigpic
                Thank you to my grandfather jetrazor for being a veteran of the armed forces!

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by CoryWinget81 View Post
                  How would you defend the Broncos?

                  Not many NFL teams run it, but I'd try a 44 Stack. Have the ends run contain, and shoot the gaps while pressing the receivers. Cover 2, so safeties have the deep help while the Sam and Rover cover the flat on obvious passing downs.

                  Anyone else have any schemes?
                  Play a one gap 3-4 defense. Bring the OLB up on the line of scrimage. Bring a safety down into the box as a spy on Tebow and trust the secondary that Tebow and this offense will not beat you down the field passing.

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                  • #10
                    2-4-5 with bunkley and thomas at 1 tech and doom and miller playing more stand up DEs who move and wesley woodyard being an in the box SS. well he'd be taking the position of the NB but playing more as a in the box SS and there'd still be 2 cbs and 2 safetys so it may be more of a 2 5 4
                    Last edited by Kyousukeneko; 11-30-2011, 02:03 AM.
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                    • #11
                      We're not even running a classic triple option, much less a wishbone.

                      We're generating a consistent run push out of the shotgun formation, which should be the real story here. Pro teams have tried for years to get the same run threat out of shotgun that they get out of under center. We've achieved it.

                      There are some plays where there are technically three options, but it's the the triple option play with a B back, A back, etc. And it's out of a formation that can be a shotgun/pass play.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Kyousukeneko View Post
                        2-4-5 with bunkley and thomas at 1 tech and doom and miller playing more stand up DEs who move and wesley woodyard being an in the box SS. well he'd be taking the position of the NB but playing more as a in the box SS and there'd still be 2 cbs and 2 safetys so it may be more of a 2 5 4
                        Woodyard would be playing the Antler here? That's actually a really good idea.
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                        Hooray, beer!

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Al Wilson 4 Mayor View Post
                          Ok, but are you talking about the wishbone or triple option? Defending the two are not the same.
                          Sorry AL I think you posted while Iwas trying to type my response to CW. I was tired and took a long time to get those few words typed in, haha. I was talking defense against the Triple option. But really the 4-3 would still be the best IMO against the wishbone and played the same way as the triple option.

                          There is the 6-1-4 but then we are really getting into high school football. I think it was called the "backbone" defence. Getting way out of my confort zone there. haha
                          Last edited by EddieMac; 11-30-2011, 07:11 AM.
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                          • #14
                            One of the things that I find most interesting about our varied and evolving running attack is that it seems that there isn't a definitive book on how to stop it yet. You can stuff the middle like the Jets did, but if you lose contain on the outside then Tebow will burn you. The Chargers did a pretty good job of containment on the outside, but McGahee pounded them up the middle.

                            For several years now, and for a variety of reasons, the NFL has been turning into a passing league. The running game over this time has become fairly basic. In response, many defenses have been built to stop the pass. You have these teams with high flying passing offenses coupled with defenses that are built to stop the pass and play with the lead (see: the Colts).

                            And then, here come the Broncos - with a running game that is so antiquated (sorry, couldn't think of another word) yet so complex (relatively speaking) that most analysts don't even know what to call it. The nomenclature itself is befuddling people. It's no wonder defenses have difficulty stopping it at times. Schematically, they're not built to stop it, and personnel-wise (coaches included) they haven't seen anything like it in this lifetime. I'm guessing that these defensive players HATE learning how and having to stop it.

                            I hope that Tebow, the coaches & co. continue to tweak it and evolve it because once they become comfortable passing the ball more then the defensive adjustments to our running game will open up huge plays in the passing game.

                            It's a sack of the conventional wisdom; and I love it!

                            Winter is Coming!

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                            • #15
                              Wishbone is a formation the Broncos haven't used to run Triple Option, nor do I think they will. The have used the I formation, usually Slot or Wing, various Single Back formations and Double Wing.

                              As far as defending it is concerned, the problem the Broncos present formation-wise is the great number of tight formations they are using (i.e., two tight ends). They are often tight both under center and in direct snap/shotgun formations. Often they add a Wing or a slot (1x1 yard off OT on the split side of the formation). Double Wing and unbalanced tandem tackle/trips are two of the nastier formations for defenses.

                              I once coached a split-six defense which some might call a 4-4 stack although we never stacked the OLBs. It was designed to stop the many Wing-T teams we faced then. Properly coached and played it was effective. However, Option teams (Wishbone, Veer, Spread Option) used to give that D trouble.

                              I would try a Double Eagle/Bear look (i.e., T-N-T/3-0-3 front). The Jets used this a bit against the Broncos. If presented with a Tight look, I guess I'd have my Ends in 7/9 technique. That could be a problem dealing with Option since it leaves the Tackles uncovered. Maybe put the Ends in 6 tech so they can help with C Gap? Those Tight and Tight Wing formations are a major problem. T-N-T should take away dive, leaving Mike with primary force and the outside backer with secondary force and the Corner with pitch. However, that means if there was a WR on that side, he is released and open unless covered by the FS rotating over to playside.

                              If confronted with the Double Eagle look, it would be a temptation to run Speed Option from Wing I toward the Wing using the FB as lead blocker. Hashmarks in the NFL are too close together.
                              Last edited by samparnell; 11-30-2011, 01:49 PM. Reason: addendum.
                              "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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