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Not the QB's - its the system

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  • #61
    Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
    I don't think Mark Schlereth and Alfred Williams would trash their credibility for a paycheck, no. And since you have nothing to prove that they're uncredible, you're just making baseless accusations against them simply because you disagree with them.

    Answer this - how is it remotely possible that the Broncos have given up more sacks in two games with Tebow behind center, than they did in FIVE games with Orton under center, playing with the EXACT same offensive line, if that's not at least largely on the quarterback switch?
    Before we get into stats and articles...

    Do you feel that Orlando Franklin's pass blocking was very good against the Lions?

    Was Zane Beadle's pass blocking very good?

    What about Kuper?

    Regarding the sacks, I already addressed this above.
    Last edited by DarkHorse26; 11-01-2011, 10:12 AM.
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    • #62
      Originally posted by DarkHorse26 View Post
      Before we get into stats and articles...

      Do you feel that Orlando Franklin's pass blocking was very good against the Lions?

      Was Zane Beadle's pass blocking very good?

      What about Kuper?
      I personally don't think Franklin was particularly good, no. Not from what I visually saw.

      Beadles was better.

      Kuper held Suh to one tackle and no sacks, so I'd say that was pretty good.
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      • #63
        Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
        I personally don't think Franklin was particularly good, no. Not from what I visually saw.

        Beadles was better.

        Kuper held Suh to one tackle and no sacks, so I'd say that was pretty good.
        Now that is a fair assessment. Unlike what Al was spewing and Stink was agreeing with.

        That is all I am saying, the rest is conjecture.
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        • #64
          Originally posted by Broncos-R-Great View Post
          Exactly,
          For everything McDaniels is criticized for, he did put his QBs in the best position to succeed. He built his system and customized the plays around his QB, just look at Kyle Orton's stats both with and without McDaniels, he was a vastly different QB under McDaniels.

          Orton with McDaniels:
          28 games, 61% comp, 270 yards per game, 41 TD, 18 INT

          Orton without McDaniels:
          39 games, 55% comp, 165 yards per game, 38 TD, 37 INT

          This shows the importance of building an offense to suit your QB. If you try to force your QB into a system you will end up with what we have now, like trying to put a square peg into a round hole.
          What he said...100%!!

          You build and play to the strength of those that you have. I think we can all agree that Alex Smith has pretty much sucked since he arrived in the league....did he suddenly have an epiphany in the the off-season?....Did he find a genie in a bottle?.....No he now has a coach that has structured a system around him and there are better pieces in place as well. Look through the history of the NFL at how often QB's have been in the wrong system and failed only to succeed once they were traded to where there was a better fit.

          Do I think Tebow is the long term answer?....Nope, I'd love him to be since that would mean we could use our first round pick to fill a hole on D that we need to fix (secondary for example) but if we don't give him the system to fit (only 6 underneath routes all day....come on man are you kidding me??!!) then he will fail.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by DarkHorse26 View Post
            This isn't about Tebow or Orton, it was about our O-Line being called flawless. But now that you mention it, I find it interesting that the O-Line was blamed for Orton's play and the running game in the first 4 games.

            3/4's of Tebow's sacks are on him but our line isn't exactly doing him any favors and I would have the same worry for any QB behind center at this point.
            O line was not blamed. No one chants Tebow if they think the O line is to blame.

            They wanted Tebow because Orton was choking, not the O line.
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            • #66
              Originally posted by Bronco51 View Post
              The problem though is that Tebow is trying to learn minimum basics on the job. And that is not acceptable. I hear people say let's give it a couple of seasons, but we tried that with Orton knowing we would not go anywhere. Why waste another season if you know it's not going to work or have strong doubts that it will work? They can't afford to be patient, they need to kickstart the rebuild now. And you do that by starting with the most important position on the field. They can't wait and hope that he will get the basics down in a year or two.
              Based on your logic, would i be correct in assuming that if we drafted andrew luck that you would only give him one season? i have said it before elway did not look very good in his first 2 or 3 seasons, so should we have traded him away because he did not look good. the truth is that it is going to take more than 11 games to figure out what tebow can do and if you think we should draft another 1st round qb every time a qb does not perform well in his first 11 starts then we are in for a longer rebuilding time than we all think.
              My Adopted Bronco - Eddie Royal


              “Life is not a journey to the grave with intentions of arriving safely in a pretty well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming ... WOW! What a ride!” - Indian Larry

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              • #67
                Originally posted by broncosfan719 View Post
                Based on your logic, would i be correct in assuming that if we drafted andrew luck that you would only give him one season? i have said it before elway did not look very good in his first 2 or 3 seasons, so should we have traded him away because he did not look good. the truth is that it is going to take more than 11 games to figure out what tebow can do and if you think we should draft another 1st round qb every time a qb does not perform well in his first 11 starts then we are in for a longer rebuilding time than we all think.
                I highly doubt they will draft a QB who lacks basic QB skills ever again. And what is it with this comparison to Elways seasons? It just as easy to argue that JaMarcus looked horrible his first two seasons as well......should he still be starting so he can work out the kinks? Heck, for that matter why isn't Quinn getting a shot to work on his game? You have the luxury to say give it time because it's not your job on the line. The NFL is a what have you done for me lately league. Tebow has this season to prove he can play the position and he better get cracking because there are no more Miami's left on the schedule.

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                • #68
                  I'd say it's the system and the close minded FO.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Bronco51 View Post
                    I highly doubt they will draft a QB who lacks basic QB skills ever again. And what is it with this comparison to Elways seasons? It just as easy to argue that JaMarcus looked horrible his first two seasons as well......should he still be starting so he can work out the kinks? Heck, for that matter why isn't Quinn getting a shot to work on his game? You have the luxury to say give it time because it's not your job on the line. The NFL is a what have you done for me lately league. Tebow has this season to prove he can play the position and he better get cracking because there are no more Miami's left on the schedule.
                    well how do you know who has basic qb skills? tebow looked good in college, his accuracy was not great but it was good and his record shows he could win games, so do you pass on luck because luck is in a system that is custom fit for him, and say he would not make it cause he won't be calling his own plays or that he plays in a weak confrence? you never know what you got until you give them time to play and adapt to the team and system they are playing in. and quinn should have got his shot last year when orton was stinkin up the place, but it was the coaching staff made that decision.
                    My Adopted Bronco - Eddie Royal


                    “Life is not a journey to the grave with intentions of arriving safely in a pretty well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming ... WOW! What a ride!” - Indian Larry

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by broncosfan719 View Post
                      well how do you know who has basic qb skills? tebow looked good in college, his accuracy was not great but it was good and his record shows he could win games, so do you pass on luck because luck is in a system that is custom fit for him, and say he would not make it cause he won't be calling his own plays or that he plays in a weak confrence? you never know what you got until you give them time to play and adapt to the team and system they are playing in. and quinn should have got his shot last year when orton was stinkin up the place, but it was the coaching staff made that decision.
                      The coaches are pros and have infinite amounts of time evaluating players. I doubt they would need more than this season to gauge Tebow as an NFL QB. It's not like they drafted Tebow as a can't miss QB when they took him. It was a project, and everyone knew it. Luck will have his own expectations to live up to. But he will not come with the same questions or liabilities as Tebow.

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