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How much credit should John Fox get for our season?

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  • #46
    Originally posted by johnlimburg View Post
    How the hell did you come to these breakdowns
    Let me break it down for you

    (30% )Fans that pushed hard for Tebow to start gets the most credit
    because if they didn't do that, Tebow is still probably a 3rd stringer.

    (30%) Tebow. Remember when KO was still the starter, almost all games were
    close and KO failed to rally/will the team to get the W. Tebow on the other
    hand was able to perform on clutch situation and come up with the W.

    (30%) for Defense and Offense. The success we are getting lately is because
    we're playing A game. They believing on something that wasn't there when KO
    is at helm.

    (10%) Fox and Co. Despite of the doubts they have on Tebow and they had no choice for them to start Tebow, I give the credit after the Lions game for creating a plan that will match Tebow's skill set in order for him to become productive and so far he's been producing. I wish they could've pulled that couple games early but it is what it is.

    So to sum it all up 60% Players 30% Fans and 10% Fox

    imho.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by T_T View Post
      Let me break it down for you

      (30% )Fans that pushed hard for Tebow to start gets the most credit
      because if they didn't do that, Tebow is still probably a 3rd stringer.
      I really hope this is not the reason a experienced head coach like John Fox would bench a player. I think by this thinking Kyle Orton deserves more credit because without his awful play in the first 5 weeks he wouldn't have been benched. And the fans do not put on a helmet on game day. They are not a part of the success on the field. However they have influence with noise and what not. But they don't play.

      (30%) Tebow. Remember when KO was still the starter, almost all games were
      close and KO failed to rally/will the team to get the W. Tebow on the other
      hand was able to perform on clutch situation and come up with the W.
      No denying Orton was god awful in the clutch while Tebow is an ace in the clutch. I don't think there is a % to put on it besides as an offense it was one third of a very good football team. I don't think Tim Tebow is more of a reason than the defense for winning games.

      (30%) for Defense and Offense. The success we are getting lately is because
      we're playing A game. They believing on something that wasn't there when KO
      is at helm.
      This is crap. Is Tim making the receivers play worse. Because before they didn't drop balls. It is just the way it is. Some receivers are playing bad. This defense is playing great. And Tim does deserve credit for some of the run game because of his threat but this run game is THE BEST in the enitre NFL. I think they contribute more then 15% to this team. Tebow included.

      (10%) Fox and Co. Despite of the doubts they have on Tebow and they had no choice for them to start Tebow, I give the credit after the Lions game for creating a plan that will match Tebow's skill set in order for him to become productive and so far he's been producing. I wish they could've pulled that couple games early but it is what it is.
      10% really. This staff adjusted and changed offensive philosophies mid season and done it with success.

      So to sum it all up 60% Players 30% Fans and 10% Fox

      imho.
      There is no % per individual group. The coaching staff is doing an amazing job. The players are playing great and this is the definition of team football. 3 phases all contrinbuting as much as the next. No one is bigger than the team and each unit comes through for the next.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by BroncoFanBoy View Post
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcRlk...&feature=g-all

        First of all, I think it's hilarious that Smith is texting when Bayless is talking at first. Funny stuff

        Second, I like Bayless, since he always supported Tebow, but I disagree. Tebow is NOT the complete reason our season turned around. He's helped, but Fox has done a great job reviving our running game, helped our defense, and has been a great coach in general. I like Fox. IMO, he's a great head coach and I'm happy to have him.

        Third, boy does this debate get heated
        Fox should get a huge amount of credit, the whole coaching staff has done a fantastic job with no offseason to work with.
        "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."sigpic

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by theshiverman View Post
          Fox should get a huge amount of credit, the whole coaching staff has done a fantastic job with no offseason to work with.
          And considering what he took over.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by johnlimburg View Post
            And considering what he took over.
            Yeah, and you can see what a differance a real pro coach can have on a team just by looking at the Defense and Special Teams, i mean just those two units alone are light years ahead of what we saw last season, and theres a whole lot of the same players out there from last season who are now actually playing like real NFL players , last year it looked like everyone was washed up , clueless or on vacation, i think the players believe in Tebow that he can get the job done and i think the players like and respect John Fox and want to play hard for him.
            "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."sigpic

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by theshiverman View Post
              Yeah, and you can see what a differance a real pro coach can have on a team just by looking at the Defense and Special Teams, i mean just those two units alone are light years ahead of what we saw last season, and theres a whole lot of the same players out there from last season who are now actually playing like real NFL players , last year it looked like everyone was washed up , clueless or on vacation, i think the players believe in Tebow that he can get the job done and i think the players like and respect John Fox and want to play hard for him.
              Yeah if you listen to interviews from this week with Mario Haggan and Britton Colquitt they make it pretty clear the difference in attitude and culture from last year to this year.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by BroncoFanBoy View Post
                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcRlk...&feature=g-all

                First of all, I think it's hilarious that Smith is texting when Bayless is talking at first. Funny stuff

                Second, I like Bayless, since he always supported Tebow, but I disagree. Tebow is NOT the complete reason our season turned around. He's helped, but Fox has done a great job reviving our running game, helped our defense, and has been a great coach in general. I like Fox. IMO, he's a great head coach and I'm happy to have him.

                Third, boy does this debate get heated
                Fox deserves some.

                But the people who get lost in all this and deserve MOST of the credit are the fans. They were loud, stupid, aggressive and unreasonable in their hardcore demand that Tebow get played and they forced Fox and Elway to play Tebow, when they did NOT want to play Tebow.

                The one thing that is being lost in all the gladhanded patting of selves on back by the organization is that Tebow would have never got a chance if not for the pressure from fans.

                Now that the team is winning Fox and company get credit.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by bloop View Post
                  Fox deserves some.

                  But the people who get lost in all this and deserve MOST of the credit are the fans. They were loud, stupid, aggressive and unreasonable in their hardcore demand that Tebow get played and they forced Fox and Elway to play Tebow, when they did NOT want to play Tebow.

                  The one thing that is being lost in all the gladhanded patting of selves on back by the organization is that Tebow would have never got a chance if not for the pressure from fans.

                  Now that the team is winning Fox and company get credit.
                  Tebow fan ?

                  Orton forced the hand of the coaches. That is why Tebow played. If the coaches played Tebow because of fan pressure shame on them.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    i would say 30-40, i mean i would be saying he should be COY, minus the fact he didn't start tebow out of the gate when it was obviously the best option
                    sigpic
                    oakland raders gm
                    latavis murray trade bait

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      John Fox all the way. He's an old school coach, very experienced in the NFL and has the respect of the players.

                      He's a likeable guy and I can see why the players must enjoy playing for him.

                      It's old school power football. Run the ball, play hard on D and don't make mistakes on ST.

                      Simple, and effective.

                      I'm glad he's our coach.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by johnlimburg View Post
                        Tebow fan ?

                        Orton forced the hand of the coaches. That is why Tebow played. If the coaches played Tebow because of fan pressure shame on them.
                        They played Tebow because they had given up on the season and had no means to deny the fans who were pushing for a 1st round pick to play. Do you not even remember 2 months ago? Is that too far back? Not even a Tebow fan and it's clear that's why they played him. Not even sure how anyone can deny that unless they didn't follow the Broncos back then and are relying solely on press reports today glowing about Fox.

                        John gets credit for deftly taking credit for Tebow after he started winning games. He clearly changes his tune around the Jets game. It's true that if he had stubbornly refused to embrace Tebow like many coaches would have had, the locker room might be less united. He gets credit for that

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          It is a mistake to draw conclusions from what coaches say publicly and think that paints a picture of the lockerroom.

                          It was necessary to start Kyle Orton and give him a chance to succeed. The players needed to see that.

                          Benching Orton was a coaching decision embraced by the team. The results since then speak for themselves. The fans had nothing to do with it.
                          "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by samparnell View Post
                            It is a mistake to draw conclusions from what coaches say publicly and think that paints a picture of the lockerroom.

                            It was necessary to start Kyle Orton and give him a chance to succeed. The players needed to see that.

                            Benching Orton was a coaching decision embraced by the team. The results since then speak for themselves. The fans had nothing to do with it.
                            What's not a mistake then? Draw conclusions based on conjecture? Base it on nothing? Fox said repeatedly that Tebow was not ready to start as justification for starting Orton. It's not like Orton was this behemoth on the sideline who had to be played. Denver was publicly floating rumors about Orton being traded to Miami before the season even started.

                            You have some revisionist thinking going on, why would they need to give Orton a "chance to succeed" when he was a tradebait scrub who had already been benched last season? What contingent were they trying to satisfy in the locker room? Why would they need to play Orton to win over the locker room when Tebow had already started at the tail end of last season, was the presumptive starter during the lockout? Was there grumbling last year when Tebow was playing that Orton should play? I guess you're privy to some hush hush information about that as well.

                            After the preseason the management made explicit statements to the effect that Tebow was not ready and therefore starting Orton. It was a demotion because Tebow could not pass in workouts, not because Orton was this superstar they had to satisfy due diligence on. You're making things up or misremembering.

                            It was clearly stated that Tebow was not ready so Orton was starting. I'm not even a Tebow fanatic and you can clearly check that from my posts if you cared to.

                            It's not even logical to say "the fans had nothing to do with it" when there was so much attention placed on fan pressure the entire first half of the season. Even if you disagree with me, how can you definitively say that dismissing the huge amount of empirical evidence? Including chanting in the stadium, billboards on the freeway, news all over the national media etc. It takes away credibility from your post.

                            Do you not even remember even a month back when Tebow was "game to game?" I don't understand the revisionist thinking here. The results "speaking for themselves" is Tebow gutting out ridiculous wins at Miami, vs Jets etc week to week and holding onto his job.

                            People should get due credit and due blame. John Fox gets credit for seeing where the bandwagon was headed (and the wins) and jumping onboard with both feet standing, especially when they saw success with Tebow's feet and they decided to go with it a few games back.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by bloop View Post
                              They played Tebow because they had given up on the season and had no means to deny the fans who were pushing for a 1st round pick to play. Do you not even remember 2 months ago? Is that too far back? Not even a Tebow fan and it's clear that's why they played him. Not even sure how anyone can deny that unless they didn't follow the Broncos back then and are relying solely on press reports today glowing about Fox.
                              I was here every day. I follow the Broncos extremely closely. I know the pressure from the fans. But I do not think Fox gave up on the season. At 1-3 and Orton still playing awful it was time for a change and thats what happened. And that change was a good one clearly. He did not change the player due to the fans. He changed him because of awful QB play. That is it. The fans were all over his case and the Broncos case for over one month. Some guy from Kentucky and his buddies got a billboard or tried to. That guy fell off the face of the earth quicker than you could blink but anyway there was pressure well before the change and the change wasn't made. Fox made the change based off of performance.

                              John gets credit for deftly taking credit for Tebow after he started winning games. He clearly changes his tune around the Jets game. It's true that if he had stubbornly refused to embrace Tebow like many coaches would have had, the locker room might be less united. He gets credit for that
                              So he wasn't all in with Tebow before the Jets game. So when he and his coaches decided to change an offense to help Tim succeed after the Lions game they didn't support him. Okay.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                There are many things John Fox has done to help the Denver Broncos become a winning team.

                                Obsessing over the Orton/Tebow controversy, long since resolved, ignores many other things. As far as that particular issue is concerned, drastically changing the offense midseason and enjoying the success that change has produced is dramatic and worthy of recognition. That decision alone speaks louder than anything Fox has said in public.

                                There are many good decisions Fox has made. There are organizational reasons for the current win streak. But, most of all, the way the entire team is playing football is his doing. That's what coaches do. They get the team ready to play by instilling confidence in each other and in the coaching staff.
                                "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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