Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

I Like Tebow....But It's A Passer's League

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #76
    Post of the week!!! Great work crazy8.

    Everyone on both sides of the tebow debate should read this.

    QUOTE=Crazy8;4251676]No one can argue that it's a passing league. But when you watch a Rodgers or a Brees, sure they go downfield, but not as much as Tebow goes downfield.

    That's what I kept saying all year. People would point at Tebow completing 40-something percent of his passes. But I'd say that these passes were all down the field.

    When you take the official stat of Yards per attempt, it shows Tebow at 6.38. That is due to his awful completion percentage, which to me is due to the awful play-calling. I understand taking a few shots down the field. I can't understand having more than a few shots down the field unless they are utterly wide open. I'm talking broken coverages.

    To me, with 8 or 9 in the box versus Cover 1, Cover 0, or Cover 3, we should've been attacking the flats, the curls, and the outs mostly. Like against the Patriots, if you notice, the D is overplaying the seams and the deep routes, and even the deep middle routes because that's what they expect from us.

    That leaves the underneath open. How many times did we attack underneath against the Patriots? It wasn't much. So, basically we're attacking the teeth of their coverage.

    Now, I'm not going to say it was all McCoy's fault, because it wasn't. I think our QB has a bit of a greedy mentality and disregards the underneath routes. Those, to me, are the routes he should be looking at first. He should be looking deep, sure, but that's to pull the coverage vertically before he comes underneath. If the defense is slow to react, then sure, go for it deep. But defenses won't make a habit of being slow to react vertically for long.

    I keep talking about the Lions game where Tebow was playing in a scheme where he's screwed. Right? He was 18 for 39 in that game for 172 yards and 1 TD and 1 INT. We had 9 vertical routes against a Cover 3. Tebow saw 1 corner out there versus 1 wideout and took a shot. Bad move when that 1 corner has leverage over the top. I really wish he would stop doing that unless he's more adept at the back shoulder throw. Anyway, those 9 passes against horrible coverage shouldn't have been called or thrown. Take those 9 plays away and he was a respectable 18 for 30 for 172 yards 1TD and 1 INT. That's not screwed. That's what we should've been doing to develop this guy.

    I agree with you that Tebow needs to develop. I think I'm too hard on Mike McCoy because Mike McCoy didn't want to go the option route because I think he thought the same as me. It would slow the growth of Tebow the passer. And, though it won us some games, I wish more had been devoted to developing the short passing game. It comes with reps, and that's what we need to do.

    After the Pittsburgh game, I kept saying that playing offense that way wasn't sustainable. Averaging 31 yards a completion is definitely not sustainable. I also keep saying, give me a 4 for 5 for 28 yards versus a 1 for 5 for 28 yards. Because the 4 for 5 for 28 yards is sustainable.

    But to me, it seemed like we kept going down the field. We were attacking the deep thirds, the hole under the safeties, and the deep halfs. It's just my opinion, but that's not a sustainable attack. If you send 4 verticals against a cover 3, once they get into that 30 yard range, 1 player can cover 2 verticals. So that principle never made sense to me. Even if you look the deep middle safety off, you're looking the offside corner over to where you want to go. Not good. But I digress.

    I agree with you that Tebow needs to develop into a passer. But we need to give Tebow the opportunity to run a sustainable attack as a passer. Those little 3 or 4 yard passes are still a good 3 or 4 yards. If that's what the D is giving you, take it. All of that eventually opens up the downfield stuff.

    The attack I want to run is a lot like a West Coast offensive attack. A lot of movement by the QB. Roll him out, cut the field down, throw some short, high-percentage passes. If you get 3 yards out of it? Fine, take it. It's 3 yards more than an incomplete pass would give you. The emphasis wouldn't be on big plays down the field. It would be on simply 1st downs. Move the chains. Keep that TOP clock running.

    That's what I mean by giving Tebow a sustainable passing attack.[/QUOTE]
    Family, country, rugby, football

    I posted in the epic Peyton's NeckBones thread and all I got was this lousy T-Shirt!

    Comment


    • #77
      As much as I'd love for him to be elite, I'd be more than happy if his skills peaked at the level of Plummer. Just enough to shut up the "he can't throw" nonsense

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by #87Birdman View Post
        Well I agree with league with the Defensive PI because if it was just 15 yards once your pass 15 yards and your beat and they are going to get a big gain just tackle the WR because even if you get hit with the flag that is just 15 yards you gave up and not a potential TD if they catch it and take it the distance. Now there are other rules I don't agree with, and yes they are becoming to offensive as a league. I think the CB should be able to keep fighting with the WR until the ball is thrown, and not restricted to the 5 yard zone. But the PI needs to stay the same.
        What if the roles were reversed in that scenario?? (WR tackles CB who is obviously going to get a pick and return, not necessarily for a TD, but a returnable INT nonetheless)

        The defense gains 10 yards, that's it. All these rules are supposed to equal the playing field and/or protect players, but that doesn't exactly seem fair to me, does it??

        I may be in the minority
        Don't give up... Don't ever give up

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by PhoenixDread View Post
          As much as I'd love for him to be elite, I'd be more than happy if his skills peaked at the level of Plummer. Just enough to shut up the "he can't throw" nonsense
          I for one did not say he can't throw......I said he needs to work on mechanics, but more important, his ability to read Ds and react to them HAS TO IMPROVE.

          That's not nonsense........in case you were referring to my post(s).

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by SM19
            Because... that's not actually true? At least three out of the four remaining teams called more passing than running plays this year, and possibly all four, depending on how many of Alex Smith's running plays were designed vs. scramble. Each team had more adjusted yards per passing attempt than yards per rushing attempt.

            The Giants and Pats were pretty clearly pass-heavy; as an aside, the Giants had the least effective running game in the league with 3.5 yards per carry. The Ravens were also pretty pass-heavy, with 544 passing attempts and 33 sacks to 459 rushing attempts. The Niners were almost perfectly balanced, with 451 passing attempts and 44 sacks to 498 rush attempts. Neither the Ravens nor the Niners had an especially effective passing attack, but what they did have was excellent pass defense. That, more than their running games, has gotten them to this point.
            I like it when members do some research....the more we do that, the more data we all have to assess with.

            :thumb:

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by Southtown View Post
              The cloned child of Dan Marino & John Elway would not even stop Fox from using a running focused offense. While he is coach, no matter who is QB, this team will think run first on 1st, 2nd, and lots of times on 3rd down too. That is John Fox.

              This will never be a passing team. Never. So, the key is to be able to execute (much better) when passing plays are called. If that happens the offense becomes much more productive.

              They don't need to do anything drastically different ( I would like some bootlegs called tho). They just need to do what they did more efficiently.

              Great Post. Whether I agree or disagree, I respect the work that went into your post.
              I was wondering which clone would be better, Marino/Elway or Montana/Farve ? :-)

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by CanDB View Post
                I for one did not say he can't throw......I said he needs to work on mechanics, but more important, his ability to read Ds and react to them HAS TO IMPROVE.

                That's not nonsense........in case you were referring to my post(s).
                I wasn't referring to your post. I apologize if I made it look that way. He'll definitely improve with help from Elway. By how much though, is what remains to be seen.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by SM19
                  Because... that's not actually true? At least three out of the four remaining teams called more passing than running plays this year, and possibly all four, depending on how many of Alex Smith's running plays were designed vs. scramble. Each team had more adjusted yards per passing attempt than yards per rushing attempt.

                  The Giants and Pats were pretty clearly pass-heavy; as an aside, the Giants had the least effective running game in the league with 3.5 yards per carry. The Ravens were also pretty pass-heavy, with 544 passing attempts and 33 sacks to 459 rushing attempts. The Niners were almost perfectly balanced, with 451 passing attempts and 44 sacks to 498 rush attempts. Neither the Ravens nor the Niners had an especially effective passing attack, but what they did have was excellent pass defense. That, more than their running games, has gotten them to this point.
                  That's great data for sure. I think the point I was more trying to make was these teams have won this year based on solid D play and not "airing it out" like the Pats, Pack, or Saints. Additionally, while I don't have data to back it up, I assume Baltimore and San Fran have a lot of their "passing attempts" from short screen, etc. (which in my book are essentially runs) -- which I actually wish Denver would run more often (remember that screen to Moreno against San Diego...beauty).

                  Again, I don't disagree that the Broncos should go more pass heavy. I just doubt it will ever happen no matter who the OC, as long as John Fox is the coach.

                  In my book, always follow what Bill Belichick is doing ASAP. That guy is a genius. The 2 TE scheme he's been implementing is a thing of beauty.

                  btw - I'm loving this objective thread. Such a breath of fresh air.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by PhoenixDread View Post
                    I wasn't referring to your post. I apologize if I made it look that way. He'll definitely improve with help from Elway. By how much though, is what remains to be seen.
                    Cool bud......sorry for my part.

                    :thumb:

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by RustyGator View Post
                      That's great data for sure. I think the point I was more trying to make was these teams have won this year based on solid D play and not "airing it out" like the Pats, Pack, or Saints. Additionally, while I don't have data to back it up, I assume Baltimore and San Fran have a lot of their "passing attempts" from short screen, etc. (which in my book are essentially runs) -- which I actually wish Denver would run more often (remember that screen to Moreno against San Diego...beauty).

                      Again, I don't disagree that the Broncos should go more pass heavy. I just doubt it will ever happen no matter who the OC, as long as John Fox is the coach.

                      In my book, always follow what Bill Belichick is doing ASAP. That guy is a genius. The 2 TE scheme he's been implementing is a thing of beauty.

                      btw - I'm loving this objective thread. Such a breath of fresh air.
                      THis is definitely the way to discuss, debate....even argue to some degree. Being objective trumps subjectivity and all that emotional stuff that can get in the way. Don't get me wrong, I love passion....as long as it is blanced with some logic.

                      And as for Belichick....I don't like him, but he has vision.....teams don't know how to defend those two big dudes, along with Welker and company. Too many problems. Brady has a field day out there.

                      :thumb:
                      Last edited by CanDB; 01-18-2012, 11:00 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        I personally think all we need a little better play calling, a little better play by Tebow, a little better play by the OL and a little better hands from the guys getting the ball thrown to them.

                        At this point I can not believe anyone who has watched what the Broncos have gone through the past 3-4 years wants to change the qb now.

                        Maybe after 2012 if Tebow does not show improvement we move on but at this point I think some people actually do think he is Jesus the way they expect him to play RIGHT NOW with zero full offseasons in the NFL, almost zero time being prepared to be the starting qb in the offseason with an offense that was designed after week 7

                        Omg Tebow why aren't you as good as Rodgers and Brady RIGHT NOW...your baby Jesus
                        Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Hadez View Post
                          I personally think all we need a little better play calling, a little better play by Tebow, a little better play by the OL and a little better hands from the guys getting the ball thrown to them.

                          At this point I can not believe anyone who has watched what the Broncos have gone through the past 3-4 years wants to change the qb now.

                          Maybe after 2012 if Tebow does not show improvement we move on but at this point I think some people actually do think he is Jesus the way they expect him to play RIGHT NOW with zero full offseasons in the NFL, almost zero time being prepared to be the starting qb in the offseason with an offense that was designed after week 7

                          Omg Tebow why aren't you as good as Rodgers and Brady RIGHT NOW...your baby Jesus
                          Great post, but you're not talking about the real Baby Jesus are you ? That tends to get to get people in trouble around these parts! :-) (GB#15)

                          Comment

                          Working...
                          X