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The GOAT (in my opinion)

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  • The GOAT (in my opinion)

    With all the talk of the upcoming super bowl Tom Brady is getting tons of pub and props (deservedly so) and many are labeling him as the best QB of all time (tying Elway for most QB Super bowl starts). I beg to differ. And here are some reasons why:

    Super bowl 21 (Denver 20, Giants 39)
    1986 Denver Broncos (Premier players other than John Elway) *Could be a few more per team give or take.

    Karl Mecklenberg (LB), Dennis Smith (S), Tom Jackson (LB), Louis Wright (DB), Mark Jackson (WR)

    1986 New York Giants (Premier players other than Phil Simms)

    Leonard Marshall (DL), Mark Bavaro (TE), Carl Banks (LB), Lawrence Taylor (LB), Joe Morris (RB), Jim Burt (OL)

    (outmatched)

    Super Bowl 22 (Denver 10, Redskins 42)
    1987 Denver Broncos (Premier players other than John Elway)
    Same as above (excluding Louis Wright) adding wide receivers Vance Johnson, and Ricky Nattiel (3 amigos)

    1986 Washington Redskins (Premier players other than Doug Williams)
    Charles Mann (DL), Dexter Manley (DL), Art Monk (WR), Timmy Smith (RB), Daryl Green (DB), Clint Didier (TE)

    (outmatched)

    Super bowl 24 (Denver 10, 49ers 55)
    1989 Denver Broncos (Premier players other than John Elway)
    3 amigos, Karl Mecklenburg, Steve Atwater, Dennis Smith

    1989 San Francisco 49ers (Premier players other than Joe Montana)
    Charles Haley (DL), Ronnie Lott (S), Tom Rathman (FB), Jerry Rice (WR), John Taylor (WR), Roger Craig (RB), Tim McKyer (DB)

    (clearly outmatched)

    1997 and 1998 Denver Broncos roster (Back to back Super Bowl Champions) (Other than John Elway)
    Steve Atwater (S), Terrell Davis (RB), Jason Elam (PK), Howard Griffith (FB), Ed McCaffery (WR), Tom Nalen (OL), Trevor Price (DL), Shannon Sharpe (TE), Mark Schlereth (OL), Neil Smith (DL), Rod Smith (WR), Gary Zimmerman (Hall of fame offensive lineman).



    If John Elway would have had the talent that surrounded him in Super bowls 32 and 33, the outcomes of Super Bowls 21, 22, and 24 would have been far different. Elway never had a featured running back in all of his super bowl losses.

    John Elway could have been a four or five time super bowl winning quarterback. I'd say 3 at the least. Tom Brady (although he's a beast) is yet another QB that was and still is surrounded by talent, a significant factor in his Super bowl wins.

    Call me a homer but #7 did more with less and in my opinion he is THE GOAT and the QB spot my friends.
    Keep the
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  • #2
    You will get no argument from me about your posts. Well maybe the exception of the 3 amigos, they aren't actually what you would call household names, as receivers go.
    People should not be afraid of their governments, governments should be afraid of their people.



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    • #3
      Umm... He has more SB rings, better stats in every single important category ( except wins) which he will pass next year most likely. More playoff wins and might end up with 4+ rings.

      Yeah, elway is good.. Top 10 but he ain't Brady. He ain't Montana neither and I hate joe Montana.

      Making super bowls doesnt mean jack squat. Tell that Jim Kelly who made 4 in a row ... More than anybody ever did.

      Fact of the matter is Brady, Manning, Bree's and Rodgers are the new and improved Montana, Marino, elway and young.
      Family, country, rugby, football

      I posted in the epic Peyton's NeckBones thread and all I got was this lousy T-Shirt!

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      • #4
        To me personally I can't name any one player the GOAT since there are so many factors that go into how one plays in this sport. There is a top level elite status that I would put players in, but trying to pick just one would be impossible unless they all played the same teams with the same team.

        So I would say Elway and Brady both are in that level with out a doubt and they both are extremly good players, and I don't think there would be any argument in that




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        • #5
          Originally posted by JHoward View Post
          With all the talk of the upcoming super bowl Tom Brady is getting tons of pub and props (deservedly so) and many are labeling him as the best QB of all time (tying Elway for most QB Super bowl starts). I beg to differ. And here are some reasons why:

          Super bowl 21 (Denver 20, Giants 39)
          1986 Denver Broncos (Premier players other than John Elway) *Could be a few more per team give or take.

          Karl Mecklenberg (LB), Dennis Smith (S), Tom Jackson (LB), Louis Wright (DB), Mark Jackson (WR)

          1986 New York Giants (Premier players other than Phil Simms)

          Leonard Marshall (DL), Mark Bavaro (TE), Carl Banks (LB), Lawrence Taylor (LB), Joe Morris (RB), Jim Burt (OL)

          (outmatched)

          Super Bowl 22 (Denver 10, Redskins 42)
          1987 Denver Broncos (Premier players other than John Elway)
          Same as above (excluding Louis Wright) adding wide receivers Vance Johnson, and Ricky Nattiel (3 amigos)

          1986 Washington Redskins (Premier players other than Doug Williams)
          Charles Mann (DL), Dexter Manley (DL), Art Monk (WR), Timmy Smith (RB), Daryl Green (DB), Clint Didier (TE)

          (outmatched)

          Super bowl 24 (Denver 10, 49ers 55)
          1989 Denver Broncos (Premier players other than John Elway)
          3 amigos, Karl Mecklenburg, Steve Atwater, Dennis Smith

          1989 San Francisco 49ers (Premier players other than Joe Montana)
          Charles Haley (DL), Ronnie Lott (S), Tom Rathman (FB), Jerry Rice (WR), John Taylor (WR), Roger Craig (RB), Tim McKyer (DB)

          (clearly outmatched)

          1997 and 1998 Denver Broncos roster (Back to back Super Bowl Champions) (Other than John Elway)
          Steve Atwater (S), Terrell Davis (RB), Jason Elam (PK), Howard Griffith (FB), Ed McCaffery (WR), Tom Nalen (OL), Trevor Price (DL), Shannon Sharpe (TE), Mark Schlereth (OL), Neil Smith (DL), Rod Smith (WR), Gary Zimmerman (Hall of fame offensive lineman).



          If John Elway would have had the talent that surrounded him in Super bowls 32 and 33, the outcomes of Super Bowls 21, 22, and 24 would have been far different. Elway never had a featured running back in all of his super bowl losses.

          John Elway could have been a four or five time super bowl winning quarterback. I'd say 3 at the least. Tom Brady (although he's a beast) is yet another QB that was and still is surrounded by talent, a significant factor in his Super bowl wins.

          Call me a homer but #7 did more with less and in my opinion he is THE GOAT and the QB spot my friends.
          Keep the
          By the way if your only measuring SB ... Bradshaw would be the number on qb of all time. Bart Starr has 2 rings is he as good as Elway?

          Your argument is specious and suspect. True unadulterated homerism. Nice try though.
          Family, country, rugby, football

          I posted in the epic Peyton's NeckBones thread and all I got was this lousy T-Shirt!

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          • #6
            I agree with your conclusion. Brady is unquestionably a great quarterback, but a large portion of his success and achievements have been aided by the immense amount of talent he's surrounded with and consistently-great coaching and offensive schemes. Say what you will about Belichick, but he's arguably the greatest coaching mind in NFL history.

            For the early SuperBowls, Elway was stuck with Dan Reeves, and there wasn't a cohesive offensive "system" to speak of. Brady runs his system incredibly well, but he's always had a brilliant play-caller to help him along. Elway had to deal with a lot more broken-down plays and "backyard football" instances that Brady has ever had to do. I think this contributed to the number of Elway's late-game comebacks--he's a clutch guy who stepped it up and took games over when the pressure was on (as an aside, we saw glimpses of a similar trait in Tebow this season).

            Elway put those teams in the '80s on his back and carried them to the SuperBowl, but in football one player can't do it all himself. Brady has had a lot more help, both on the field and on the sidelines, so Elway still gets the nod for GOAT because he accomplished the same with far less to work with.

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            • #7
              GOAT's are measured with rings theses days.

              Joe Montana would be the GOAT at his position. Until Brady wins another he shouldn't be in the discussion

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              • #8
                Originally posted by rst08tierney View Post
                GOAT's are measured with rings theses days.

                Joe Montana would be the GOAT at his position. Until Brady wins another he shouldn't be in the discussion
                Umm they have the same amount of rings. And Bradshaw has 4. Thereby the GOAT is Bradshaw!!! Settled.
                Family, country, rugby, football

                I posted in the epic Peyton's NeckBones thread and all I got was this lousy T-Shirt!

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Oilersfan34 View Post
                  Umm... He has more SB rings, better stats in every single important category ( except wins) which he will pass next year most likely. More playoff wins and might end up with 4+ rings.

                  Yeah, elway is good.. Top 10 but he ain't Brady. He ain't Montana neither and I hate joe Montana.

                  Making super bowls doesnt mean jack squat. Tell that Jim Kelly who made 4 in a row ... More than anybody ever did.
                  I hear this argument a lot, and I strongly disagree. People act like there is some shame in losing the SuperBowl. You're still the second-best team in the NFL! You are the Conference Champion! That means a lot, and as football fans we need to stop acting like the SuperBowl is the only game that means anything all season. Division titles matter. Playoff wins matter. Conference Championships matter. SuperBowl rings are hugely important but that doesn't mean we must ignore any other accomplishments.

                  Making a SuperBowl still means you're better than 30 other teams in the NFL that season. IMO, that should mean something, regardless of the outcome of the final game.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by rst08tierney View Post
                    GOAT's are measured with rings theses days.

                    Joe Montana would be the GOAT at his position. Until Brady wins another he shouldn't be in the discussion
                    If that's the only way we rank players, then you're arguing that Trent Dilfer was a better QB than Dan Marino.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Oilersfan34 View Post
                      Umm they have the same amount of rings. And Bradshaw has 4. Thereby the GOAT is Bradshaw!!! Settled.
                      Montana has 4 rings too...Super Bowl Champion (XVI, XIX, XXIII, XXIV)

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                      • #12
                        Tom Brady's superbowl loss was on a last second TD that started with the lucky catch off the helmet. Before that they were undefeated the entire season. Elway's losses were blow outs. Plus, Brady didn't have the greatest of talent surrounding him either.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Oilersfan34 View Post
                          By the way if your only measuring SB ... Bradshaw would be the number on qb of all time. Bart Starr has 2 rings is he as good as Elway?

                          Your argument is specious and suspect. True unadulterated homerism. Nice try though.
                          Yeah whatever you want to call it Oilersfan34. Oh wait a minute, by the look of your name I am thinking that you like the team that were once the houston oilers. Is that right? I would hope not. The oilers definitely have no room in this conversation being that the organization has never been to a Super Bowl. EVER!!! They dont even exist anymore HA HA!!!
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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Oilersfan34 View Post
                            Umm... He has more SB rings, better stats in every single important category ( except wins) which he will pass next year most likely. More playoff wins and might end up with 4+ rings.

                            Yeah, elway is good.. Top 10 but he ain't Brady. He ain't Montana neither and I hate joe Montana.

                            Making super bowls doesnt mean jack squat. Tell that Jim Kelly who made 4 in a row ... More than anybody ever did.

                            Fact of the matter is Brady, Manning, Bree's and Rodgers are the new and improved Montana, Marino, elway and young.
                            Marino, IMO is the best QB ever. He never had an arsenal of WR's, he had little to no running game ever, and the league at the time was different as it encouraged aggressive play style by CB's.... He carried a marginally talented team all over the place for a long, long time... from a pure QB skill perspective, he was the best.
                            A super bowl victory is the only thing that matters in a season. So to show improvement you have to get closer than we were last year. So the AFCC game is a good answer if we only match what we did last year it is a failure. The Giants were 9-7 and won it all so record or first round bye mean nothing unless you win it all-

                            #87Birdman wrote it- adding Manning, the Broncos should be held to it, and certain posters think otherwise and we know who you are.....

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Oilersfan34 View Post
                              Umm... He has more SB rings, better stats in every single important category ( except wins) which he will pass next year most likely. More playoff wins and might end up with 4+ rings.

                              Yeah, elway is good.. Top 10 but he ain't Brady. He ain't Montana neither and I hate joe Montana.

                              Making super bowls doesnt mean jack squat. Tell that Jim Kelly who made 4 in a row ... More than anybody ever did.

                              Fact of the matter is Brady, Manning, Bree's and Rodgers are the new and improved Montana, Marino, elway and young.
                              Did you ever see Elway play? Stats never tell the whole story especially now in this over inflated pass happy QB friendly league.

                              John played in a far different time, things were a lot different in the 80's and 90's from today.
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