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Broncos/Patriots vs. Giants/Patriots - a Comparison

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  • Broncos/Patriots vs. Giants/Patriots - a Comparison

    After the game last night, I went through and looked at the stats of the Broncos two games vs. the Patriots this year, and compared them against the Giants two games vs. the Patriots this year. I didn't list every single stat, just a few interesting ones from all 4 games, and here they are:

    Broncos Offense vs. Patriots Defense

    Points: 33
    Total Yards: 645
    1st Downs: 38
    3rd Down Conversions: 11-28 (39%)
    Turnovers: 4
    Sacks: 9
    Total Plays: 129
    Average Gain Per Play: 5.15


    Giants Offense vs. Patriots Defense

    Points: 45
    Total Yards: 757
    1st Downs: 49
    3rd Down Conversions: 9-25 (36%)
    Turnovers: 2
    Sacks: 3
    Total Plays: 139
    Average Gain Per Play: 5.45


    Patriots Offense vs. Broncos Defense

    Points: 86
    Total Yards: 960
    1st Downs: 57
    3rd Down Conversions: 8-18 (44%)
    Turnovers: 2
    Sacks: 2
    Total Plays: 136
    Average Gain Per Play: 7.15

    Patriots Offense vs. Giants Defense

    Points: 37
    Total Yards: 787
    1st Downs: 44
    3rd Down Conversions: 11-27 (41%)
    Turnovers: 5
    Sacks: 4
    Total Plays: 137
    Average Gain Per Play: 5.7

    _____________________________________________

    Draw your own conclusions. Mine are as follows:

    1) Against the Patriots defense, the Broncos offensive output actually compares fairly decently with the Super Bowl winning Giants offensive output against the Patriots defense. The Broncos actually had a better 3rd down conversion rate than the Giants. Overall, makes one go "hmmmm...." since the Broncos are not a "high octane" offense and the Giants are.

    2) Turnovers and Sacks were the 2 biggest differences between the Broncos and Giants in how they performed against the Patriots defense. Obviously, turnovers are huge and sacks can be huge. In a broader sense, sacks usually are an indicator of one of three things, or a combination of those same three things. QB holding the ball too long; Offensive Line getting whacked; Receivers not getting open. In the Broncos two games against the Patriots, I think the primary issue is that the Offensive Line was getting manhandled. Tebow holding the ball too long and the Receivers not getting open might have factored into things in a smaller way in those 2 games (only talking about those 2 games, not the season as a whole), but I think the sacks were mostly on the Offensive Line.

    3) Turnovers and Sacks against the Patriots Offense was a huge difference between the Broncos and Giants, with the Giants forcing twice the sacks and more than twice the turnovers against the Patriots as the Broncos did.

    4) That "horrible" defense of the Patriots held the Super Bowl Champions to only 12 more total points over 2 games than the Broncos scored against the Patriots over 2 games. And of those 12 more points, 4 of them were given to the Giants last night (assuming the Giants would have made the chip-shot field goal had they not scored the touchdown) at the end of the game when the Patriots let the Giants score with a minute to go so they could get the ball back.

    I've heard multiple NFL "experts" in the past few weeks talk about how much better the Patriots defense was towards the end of the season. And yet, some of those same "experts" beat on the Broncos for "only" scoring as many points as they did against those same Patriots, even though it was an average of less than a touchdown difference than the Super Bowl Champions scored against the Patriots over 2 games. Double standard? Yep.

    5) It's obvious that the Patriots Offense did much better against the Broncos Defense than against the Giants Defense overall, but I think the biggest two things were that the Broncos Defense didn't get consistent pressure on Brady, and they gave up too many big plays. Thinking of that wide open Chad Johnson TD still makes me sick. I don't remember a whole lot about the first Giants/Patriots game this year, but last night the Giants gave up very few big plays to the Patriots.

  • #2
    neat breakdown.

    I think the thing that sticks out the most to me is our team really isn't at the next level yet.

    More importantly our defense isn't ready for where we made it to this year. It might also be a slight indication of how unprepared our DC & staff were as well. Who knows.

    Comment


    • #3
      Same thing versus the Ravens.

      The Broncos DEFENSE is the real issue.

      The Broncos will be real contenders when their defense doesn't give up 40 points in a game EVER.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by tzinc View Post
        Same thing versus the Ravens.

        The Broncos DEFENSE is the real issue.

        The Broncos will be real contenders when their defense doesn't give up 40 points in a game EVER.
        Quoted for truth.

        The bottom line is that while having an elite QB exponentially increases your chances of winning a title, in the end the mantra of "defense wins Championships" still holds.

        And people will argue that with the exception of the 2000 Ravens, the last decade of Super Bowl winning teams were all offensive powerhouses. However, that isn't true.

        The 2001 Pats won really because of special teams, as did the 2003 Pats. The 2002 Bucs won because of solid defense. The Colts and the Bears in SuperBowl XLI were locked in a dead heat until Kelvin Hayden picked off Grossman's pass and ran it back for a TD...only to be followed by a Bob Sanders interception. The two SuperBowls won by the Giants were because of their defensive lines. The Steelers over the Cardinals in SuperBowl XLIII turned on Harrison's ridiculous interception return. The Saints' win over the Colts in 2010 was a result of Tracy Porter's pick-6 of Manning. And last year, it was the Packers' defense's ability to force fumble-after-fumble from the Steelers that tipped the game in their favor.

        I think even after all these years, Mike Ditka still has it right. Good defense, good special teams play, and an ability to run the ball are the keys to winning.

        In the end if you gave me a choice between a below-average QB (say, Tebow) with an elite defense (e.g. the 2000 Ravens) versus an elite QB (say, Brady) with a below-average defense (like the Pats had this year), I would take the former over the latter all day.
        Last edited by SinePari; 02-06-2012, 10:02 AM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by SinePari View Post
          Quoted for truth.

          The bottom line is that while having an elite QB exponentially increases your chances of winning a title, in the end the mantra of "defense wins Championships" still holds.

          And people will argue that with the exception of the 2000 Ravens, the last decade of Super Bowl winning teams were all offensive powerhouses. However, that isn't true.

          The 2001 Pats won really because of special teams, as did the 2003 Pats. The 2002 Bucs won because of solid defense. The Colts and the Bears in SuperBowl XLI were locked in a dead heat until Kelvin Hayden picked off Grossman's pass and ran it back for a TD...only to be followed by a Bob Sanders interception. The two SuperBowls won by the Giants were because of their defensive lines. The Steelers over the Cardinals in SuperBowl XLIII turned on Harrison's ridiculous interception return. The Saints' win over the Colts in 2010 was a result of Tracy Porter's pick-6 of Manning. And last year, it was the Packers' defense's ability to force fumble-after-fumble from the Steelers that tipped the game in their favor.

          I think even after all these years, Mike Ditka still has it right. Good defense, good special teams play, and an ability to run the ball are the keys to winning.

          In the end if you gave me a choice between a below-average QB (say, Tebow) with an elite defense (e.g. the 2000 Ravens) versus an elite QB (say, Brady) with a below-average defense (like the Pats had this year), I would take the former over the latter all day.
          Great post!

          Comment


          • #6
            ala Dan Marino and the Dolphins.........arguably the best passer in the game EVER, no rings

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            • #7
              One other thing I forgot to mention....I have mentioned this multiple times in the past, but it is very well worth mentioning again. I think that Eli Manning throws as many if not more "wobbly" passes than Tebow does, and he has been like that ever since I've been watching him (Eli). Some people have said it's because his home stadium in New York is windy. That may be true, but I'm pretty sure there wasn't a wisp of wind inside Lucas Oil Stadium and he made some horrific looking "wounded duck" passes, which he does on a regular basis. If they're on target, though, his receivers usually catch them, regardless of how beautiful or ugly the spiral was to get them there. I hope people can please stop blaming the Bronco receiver's drops on some "wobbly" throws here and there by Tebow.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by ohiotebow View Post
                One other thing I forgot to mention....I have mentioned this multiple times in the past, but it is very well worth mentioning again. I think that Eli Manning throws as many if not more "wobbly" passes than Tebow does, and he has been like that ever since I've been watching him (Eli). Some people have said it's because his home stadium in New York is windy. That may be true, but I'm pretty sure there wasn't a wisp of wind inside Lucas Oil Stadium and he made some horrific looking "wounded duck" passes, which he does on a regular basis. If they're on target, though, his receivers usually catch them, regardless of how beautiful or ugly the spiral was to get them there. I hope people can please stop blaming the Bronco receiver's drops on some "wobbly" throws here and there by Tebow.

                I couldn't agree more finally someone with some common sense and not outright bias. Great thread and with some great post great job guys.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by ohiotebow View Post
                  One other thing I forgot to mention....I have mentioned this multiple times in the past, but it is very well worth mentioning again. I think that Eli Manning throws as many if not more "wobbly" passes than Tebow does, and he has been like that ever since I've been watching him (Eli). Some people have said it's because his home stadium in New York is windy. That may be true, but I'm pretty sure there wasn't a wisp of wind inside Lucas Oil Stadium and he made some horrific looking "wounded duck" passes, which he does on a regular basis. If they're on target, though, his receivers usually catch them, regardless of how beautiful or ugly the spiral was to get them there. I hope people can please stop blaming the Bronco receiver's drops on some "wobbly" throws here and there by Tebow.
                  Not just Eli I watched Alex Smith throw a ton of wobbly passes. Not putting Smith in the same category as Eli as a passer. But I agree with your assessment.

                  Sure we would love to see him throw nice tight spirals all of the time but I am willing to bet that comes with more playing time.
                  People should not be afraid of their governments, governments should be afraid of their people.



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                  • #10
                    Eli had more than a few underthrows last night too. Some were yards short.
                    Decimating the competition, leaving in the wake a blind ambition.

                    elecshoc
                    You will be for ever known as the truth see-er

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                    • #11
                      Maybe im crazy but I like the wobblers. Its always aweseome to see a slow motion replay of a wounded duck fluttering around but still somehow ends up exactly where it needs to be.

                      As for the catchability of a wobbler, IMO The WRs get paid specifically to catch the ball so it shouldnt matter if its a tight spiral, or end over end..when I play catch with my 10 year old nephew he throws quite a few ducks but i have no problem catching them.
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                      • #12
                        U all are kidding right? Brady completed 67 % of his passes and if use the Tebow scale ..... u know the one where it factors in drops.... hes around 75%. Eli the SB MVP completed 75 % of his passes. Both QB's were brilliant in the short and intermediate area's of the passing game. U all can wish Timmy better all u want, but he isnt even on the same planet as these 2 guys as an NFL QB. U all want to put 11 working parts together to make an elite defense a very tough thing to do. I hear u all sayin "We need a better defense". I dont care who is QBing the Broncos we need to get better on defense. My question to all the Tebow fanatics do we need the Ravens of 2000 or with Timmy can we get by with the broncos defense of 98 ?
                        My friends over at Sports Radio Interviews sent me a link to an interview Pat Bowlen did with a Chicago-area radio station. While there is nothing earth-shattering here. Below is a segment of the transcript -

                        What are the Bears getting in Jay Cutler?

                        “They’re getting an extremely talented young quarterback.”


                        Some one Please name me the last successful NFL QB that had to be taught how to throw the ball correctly.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by it'sjustagame View Post
                          U all are kidding right? Brady completed 67 % of his passes and if use the Tebow scale ..... u know the one where it factors in drops.... hes around 75%. Eli the SB MVP completed 75 % of his passes. Both QB's were brilliant in the short and intermediate area's of the passing game. U all can wish Timmy better all u want, but he isnt even on the same planet as these 2 guys as an NFL QB. U all want to put 11 working parts together to make an elite defense a very tough thing to do. I hear u all sayin "We need a better defense". I dont care who is QBing the Broncos we need to get better on defense. My question to all the Tebow fanatics do we need the Ravens of 2000 or with Timmy can we get by with the broncos defense of 98 ?
                          Well, we got to the playoffs and won a game in which we were told not to even show up for with the 2011 broncos defense.....so i guess with the 98 broncos defense and not sacrificing 4 games to the god of mediocrity, we might be a 10 win team.....realistically.
                          "A 'W' is a 'W' and it doesn't matter how you get it. If you win ugly, it's still a 'W.' Mechanics don't play the game, people do." -Floyd Little

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                          • #14
                            Simply put, Giants got pressure on Brady with 4, and could drop 7 in coverage, also played them man to man, didn't let them get a free release off the LOS.

                            Both QB's made the big throws from 7-15 yards, the elite ones make those throws, both QB's were brilliant.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by TheThreeAmigos View Post
                              Well, we got to the playoffs and won a game in which we were told not to even show up for with the 2011 broncos defense.....so i guess with the 98 broncos defense and not sacrificing 4 games to the god of mediocrity, we might be a 10 win team.....realistically.
                              AND.................. we got our a$$ handed to us twice by the loser of the SB. Eveerybody blames the loses on the defense. I was wondering did they change the rules for us in both those games. Did NE not have to kick the ball off to the broncos after they scored? In the first game we scored 7 points in the second half. In the second game we scored 10 points in the whole game. In order for the broncos to compete at the level to win sb our Qb has to be elite. Lets take a look at the past few winners. Eli, Rodgers , Brees, Rothlesberger, Payton, Eli. Brady, Payton, and Warner have been on the losing teams. What part of Tebows games looks like any of these guys throwin the football. Hang ur hat on that one win against a broken team all u want.Even with all of Timmys heroics we needed a center to snap the ball over Bens head to have a chance at that one also. Timmys gonna have to get light years better throwing the ball for us to be competitive. This is a 3-4 win team that smoke and mirrored to a place where they shouldnt be in the draft. U all realise we are drafting behind a team that beat us 45-10 , the Lions. This little run hurt us much more than helped us
                              My friends over at Sports Radio Interviews sent me a link to an interview Pat Bowlen did with a Chicago-area radio station. While there is nothing earth-shattering here. Below is a segment of the transcript -

                              What are the Bears getting in Jay Cutler?

                              “They’re getting an extremely talented young quarterback.”


                              Some one Please name me the last successful NFL QB that had to be taught how to throw the ball correctly.

                              Comment

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