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Drew Litton on Elway, Manning & Tebow : Ouch!

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  • Originally posted by itswutz4dinna View Post
    That's like saying Slowick isn't bad because we had Marquand Manuel. Talent and coaching are both important in the NFL, although I believe there is less parity in the talent department.

    Tebow isn't a world-beater right now but McCoy isn't doing him any favors. They both suck but I happen to think McCoy sucks harder. You have to remember that Orton started the first five games. Unless Jabbar Gaffney is the most valuable receiver in the league then McCoy and Fox are a terrible combo. In fact it's eerie how similar it is to Shanny-Slowick besides the getting the HC fired part.
    Why do you keep bringing up Bob Slowick? He was a multiple time failed NFL DC who did a poor job in Denver and when Shanahan was told to rapleace him Shanahan refused, both were then dismissed.

    McCoy is a first time NFL OC who MANY in both the media and NFL felt did a tremendous job with the "QB" he was given. No one in the Broncos organization or media called for McCoy's head.

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    • Originally posted by BroncoDonko View Post
      Your facts aren't facts. It is not a "fact" that Tebow was the worst passing quarterback in the NFL. In fact, none of your statements are facts. And none are particularly well conceived. The more tape teams had, the worse he played? The best game of his career was the second-to-last game he played. Now I'm sure you'll dismiss that as an anomaly. Orton's game against the Packers "proves it's more about match-ups", but naturally, Tebow throwing for 300+ against the best defense in the NFL in a playoff game meant nothing.
      No, I will admit that was the best game of his career, and I'm sure that Pittsburgh not believing he could hit those passes and continuing to play him against the run had NOTHING to do with his having some success as a passer. Also helping Tebow was the fact that Pittsburgh's offense was so hopelessly hobbled, with a crippled QB, an offense without both their first and second string running backs and us able to get to a crippled QB before he could get rid of the ball.

      But don't let me interrupt your rationalizations...

      Some people, like you, can't even admit that our quarterback play improved from Orton to Tebow. That's an absolute bare minimum. If you can't admit that much, you aren't capable of a rational conversation regarding Tebow. We were 1-4 under Orton this season, after going 3-10 with him last season and finishing 2-7 with him the previous season. That's 6-21 in his past 27 starts. We went 8-5 with Tebow, including a playoff win. If you want to believe that our defense (which allowed 35 first half points to the Patriots in our last game, finished the season ranked 24th in points allowed and 28th in turnovers forced) went from awful to amazing between Week 5 and Week 6, more power to you. Sounds rational to me. If you want to believe our running game went from 93 yards per game to 200 yards per game between Week 5 and Week 6 based on John Fox's system being installed, I guess that works too. Tebow must be a friggin' leprechaun with all the good luck he had between Week 5 and 6. It's really too bad Orton didn't hang around. If the worst quarterback in the league could take us to the second round, Orton might have won the Super Bowl.
      Not at all. I think both Tebow and Orton need a lot of help to even get to a super bowl at this point, much less win one.

      And if you watched the same games I did, and screamed at the TV and at Tebow as much as I did for the first 55 minutes of regulation for his poor, incompetent play, then you know as well as I that NO ONE could call Tebow a good QB with a straight face.

      But he played well in the final five minutes of regulation, didn't he?

      And had the defense not improved dramatically from the worst in the NFL the year before to being around 20th overall in the NFL, and had Tebow's heroics not come, for the most part, against teams with .500 or worse records, I'm thinking we wouldn't have seen the heroics.

      As for the tape issue, I can give you one very good example: teams still tended to relax back into a prevent in the final five minutes of a game, even though they had shut Tebow down completely in the first 55 minutes. Once they did that, and gave Timmy room to operate, he performed well.

      Then teams realized that they have to play him hard and shut him down for the full 60 minutes instead of going into a prevent and Tebow played poorly. Buffalo, for example, was not a particularly good team and yet they shut Timmy down and didn't give him a prevent and room to operate in the final five minutes.

      Just think, if Timmy could have been a real NFL passer and not played so badly in that game, we might not have had to back into the playoffs to get that game with an injured Steelers team.
      You Tell 'em Justice is coming. You tell 'em I'M coming!sigpic

      Comment


      • Originally posted by BroncoDonko View Post
        Lol at QBR. According to QBR, Tebow had the best postseason game in NFL history against the Steelers. Who could trade that kind of potential?!?! Best game of all time, against the #1 defense? Lordy, we've got Steve Young and Dan Marino all wrapped up in one. (Note: this is sarcasm, QBR is an atrocious statistic that has existed for like 18 months)

        Also, total passing yards is a total joke to bring up. Tebow only played 11 regular season games and averaged the fewest pass attempts per game of any QB in the league. He was not last in yards per attempt.
        No, he was last in completion percentage and perhaps wouldn't have been had he been less hesitant to release the ball to the receiver on time and instead stood around in the backfield for long periods of time waiting for a receiver to get WIDE open down the field.
        You Tell 'em Justice is coming. You tell 'em I'M coming!sigpic

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        • Originally posted by Mk2_Tebow View Post
          Elway never drafted Tebow.
          Elway is sick of Tebow Mania (generated by the media, not Tebow's fault)
          Sorry, but after seeing the influx of Tebow's gator fans here since he was drafted, I think I can truly say that tebowmania is not generated by the media but by Tebow fans, both the Gator fans and the fans who became Tebow fans when he got here.

          It really is a true grassroots movement.
          You Tell 'em Justice is coming. You tell 'em I'M coming!sigpic

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          • The Buffalo game also featured a 17-point swing without Tebow attempting a pass. Not exactly great playcalling.

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            • Originally posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
              I agree but they wouldn't be looking for a true competition if they had all their faith in Tebow.
              Fair enough. Do you think the Cowboys have all their faith in Romo? There are probably only a handful of teams that would say that.

              But here's where our exchange started...

              Originally posted by catsigater View Post
              Originally posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
              I think this just shows how little Tebow is developing. If Tebow was developing well, I thin k they would stick with him instead of looking for a replacement.
              C'mon. It's Peyton Manning.
              My by now extremely belabored point was they weren't looking for a replacement. Someone to challenge him, sure, that's public knowledge.

              Then Peyton became available.

              I think you and I both agree the Broncos aren't at all confident Tebow is the long-term answer. But they did feel like he had shown enough to be named the starter going into TC next year. (Which is exactly what he deserved by his performance, no more and no less.)

              You seem to think they were still looking to replace him. I see no evidence of that, and if you're going to say, "Look, they're going after Peyton, so they were definitely looking to replace him," my answer is still the same...

              "Hey, it's Peyton Manning."

              Comment


              • Originally posted by itswutz4dinna View Post
                The Buffalo game also featured a 17-point swing without Tebow attempting a pass. Not exactly great playcalling.

                Yeah, Timmy was a great QB that day
                You Tell 'em Justice is coming. You tell 'em I'M coming!sigpic

                Comment


                • Originally posted by itswutz4dinna View Post
                  I think pursuing the local McDonald's manager to be our OC would send the same message. Mediocre is actually quite impressive when you have Mike "I want to set more records than Bob Slowick" McCoy as a coordinator. Aaron Rodgers might be out of the league by now if he was groomed by this man.
                  And yet, as has been pointed out to you again and again, while some fans, particularly Tebow fans, want to blame McCoy for the bad play of the offense, nobody in the NFL is blaming McCoy, or he wouldn't have been requested to interview for multiple head coaching jobs by people in the NFL that know coaching.

                  it's just Tebow fans trying to pass the buck for their boy's inconsistent and often bad play.
                  You Tell 'em Justice is coming. You tell 'em I'M coming!sigpic

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by rogue719 View Post
                    Yeah, Timmy was a great QB that day
                    I actually think Tebow played pretty well that game. Every QB has mistakes at some point. Tebow's were mostly in garbage time. I saw Cam Newton have a similar performance, except with the game on the line. Again, this isn't baseball.

                    Do I think Tebow is a good QB right now? No, he's decent to kinda bad. I think he has the potential to be great one day. I'm not as confident as Fox who says he WILL be great though. I just think it is strange to think a front office would set up a player for trade by gushing over them. They gave KO 2.5 years without nearly as much praise.

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                    • Originally posted by catsigater View Post
                      Fair enough. Do you think the Cowboys have all their faith in Romo? There are probably only a handful of teams that would say that.

                      But here's where our exchange started...



                      My by now extremely belabored point was they weren't looking for a replacement. Someone to challenge him, sure, that's public knowledge.

                      Then Peyton became available.

                      I think you and I both agree the Broncos aren't at all confident Tebow is the long-term answer. But they did feel like he had shown enough to be named the starter going into TC next year. (Which is exactly what he deserved by his performance, no more and no less.)

                      You seem to think they were still looking to replace him. I see no evidence of that, and if you're going to say, "Look, they're going after Peyton, so they were definitely looking to replace him," my answer is still the same...

                      "Hey, it's Peyton Manning."
                      EFX were trapped by the Tebow-maniacs. They couldn't get rid of him without a fan rebellion.

                      Then Peyton Manning became available.

                      He's Denver's "get out of jail free card.". They couldn't convince the fans to allow Orton or Quinn to start over Tebow. Even talk of bringing legitimate competition for Tebow was met with anger.

                      But there's no way to object to Peyton Manning replacing Tebow. Polls in Denver show a 2 to 1 fan preference for Manning.

                      Elway has a way of ridding himself of an inherited QB that he never cared for. With Manning, Elway can jettison Tebow and select a young QB more to his liking who can be properly developed while Manning helps them rebuild the team.

                      I can't imagine a happier situation for EFX.
                      "That's a crap question."
                      - Kyle Orton

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by catsigater View Post
                        Fair enough. Do you think the Cowboys have all their faith in Romo? There are probably only a handful of teams that would say that.

                        But here's where our exchange started...



                        My by now extremely belabored point was they weren't looking for a replacement. Someone to challenge him, sure, that's public knowledge.

                        Then Peyton became available.

                        I think you and I both agree the Broncos aren't at all confident Tebow is the long-term answer. But they did feel like he had shown enough to be named the starter going into TC next year. (Which is exactly what he deserved by his performance, no more and no less.)

                        You seem to think they were still looking to replace him. I see no evidence of that, and if you're going to say, "Look, they're going after Peyton, so they were definitely looking to replace him," my answer is still the same...

                        "Hey, it's Peyton Manning."
                        Tebow was only named the starter since he was the only one on the team besides Weber. Who else would be named the starter? Weber?
                        sigpic

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                        • Originally posted by nyuk nyuk View Post
                          That made me laugh.

                          If Manning were to sign and Tim were to stay, I think Tim would benefit from the experience.:thumb:
                          My Opinion isn’t determined by what the Popular Opinion is. Sometimes I agree with the Majority, Sometimes I Don’t. If My Opinion is Different than Yours, I have to Ask One Question:
                          You Mad Bro?
                          Don’t Be A Mean Girl

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                          • Originally posted by broncolee View Post
                            That made me laugh.

                            If Manning were to sign and Tim were to stay, I think Tim would benefit from the experience.:thumb:
                            i don't think there's a qb in the nfl who wouldn't benefit from peyton's knowledge

                            it's not like he'd make anyone dumber, not even brady

                            that said , the jury's out on if peyton will ever even be good again, he may be worse than tebow post-injury.

                            but peyton is a smart guy at the least.....maybe make him a qb coach if all else fails.....
                            sigpic

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                            • Originally posted by neckbeard View Post
                              They couldn't convince the fans to allow Orton or Quinn to start over Tebow.
                              Orton had all the opportunity in the world and he sucked. No one to blame but Orton for Orton's failure. When he finally lands somewhere else, you'll have another sandbox to cry in.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by itswutz4dinna View Post
                                I actually think Tebow played pretty well that game. Every QB has mistakes at some point. Tebow's were mostly in garbage time. I saw Cam Newton have a similar performance, except with the game on the line. Again, this isn't baseball.
                                You think he played "pretty well?" He took us to scores on the first drive of the game and then three and outs the remainder of the first half. Then a scoring drive on the first drive of the second half and sucked the remainder of the game with four turnovers, two of them returned for touchdowns.

                                Do I think Tebow is a good QB right now? No, he's decent to kinda bad.
                                Thank you, this is the entire point. Timmy is at best a mediocre QB with potential at this point. And the real issue is, NOBODY knows what his ceiling is, but we can extrapolate that if he doesn't learn to be an NFL quality passer, he won't have much more ceiling than he did last year.

                                For that reason, I have no problem, if we can get Manning, to getting rid of Timmy if he doesn't want to ride the pine and learn to be the kind of QB that can start and succeed in the NFL.
                                You Tell 'em Justice is coming. You tell 'em I'M coming!sigpic

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