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Peyton Manning to John Elway: “No doubt” I’ll play at MVP level

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  • Peyton Manning to John Elway: “No doubt” I’ll play at MVP level

    Payton Manning is truly one of the greatest QBs ever. The nicest thing about the trade is that it is probably going to solidify our fanbase in the manner it was under Elway sooo long ago (and mostly also under Plummer 2003-2005).

    I will miss Tebow as I saw something special in the way he played (a raw Elway (mindset)/Plummer (mindset/dual threat) hybrid). I think that he has great potential, but there is also no doubt that right now Payton Manning is a major upgrade.

    The scary scenario to me is not his age, not his neck but his historic performance against the Chargers. Payton Manning was our nemesis and the Chargers his. How great would Plummer have been in the eyes of fans if we had not been humiliated by Payton in 2003 & 2004. What would it have done for Payton if Chargers didn't knock him out of the playoffs every time.

    Cold hard football facts has this article that hammers it out - Scary

    The move for Manning will be good for Bronco Country for the next couple of years, and only time will tell whether it was right or wrong. It is going to be interesting to see but the Manning/Rivers angle is a bit scary

    Rivers, not Manning, best of the AFC West
    Cold, Hard Football Facts for March 21, 2012

    By Tony Cocco
    Cold, Hard Football Facts man behind the scenes

    The “Where Will Peyton Go?”soap opera is now over. And with the future Hall-of-Fame QB taking his talents to the Rocky Mountains, the football “pundits,” and a few Denver players are beside themselves with orgasmic joy at the thought of what a healthy Manning can do for a Broncos team that came out of nowhere to win the AFC West in 2011.

    You might say they've contracted a dangerous case of Spinal Manningitis, a 14-year-old pigskin parasite that can be cured only with a huge dose of the Cold, Hard Football Facts.

    Of course, we’ve already done our best Lee Corso impression (“not so fast, my friends”) by pointing out the fact that Manning is joining a Denver team with a bad defense -- a defense that was worse than most of the “bad” defenses that allegedly hampered Eli’s older brother’s ability to win more than a single Super Bowl during all those 12- and 14-win seasons in Indianapolis.

    What we haven’t done yet since Manning agreed to rid John Elway of the Tim Tebow monster that lurks under his bed every night, is to point out something that should be obvious if one would just bother to examine the statistical evidence:

    San Diego’s Philip Rivers is still the most productive quarterback in the AFC West.

    Before the angry, pitchfork-carrying mobs of Manning worshippers descend upon the CHFF cardboard box world-headquarters, let us do what we always do and simply point out the facts.

    Rivers has been a better QB than Manning in each of the last three regular seasons in which both men played a full slate. As the table below shows, between 2008 and 2010, Rivers threw just one fewer TD pass than Manning – with 300 fewer attempts!

    Rivers also tossed fewer interceptions (33 vs. 45) with a lower INT rate (2.2 vs. 2.5) had significantly higher passer ratings and, quite impressively, pulled off a rare “three-peat” on the CHFF Quality Stats tote board, as he topped the NFL in Real Passing Yards Per Pass Attempt (which takes into account the impact of sacks) each of those three seasons.

    2008 Comp. Att Pct. Yards YPA Real YPA TD INT Rating
    Rivers 312 478 65.3 4009 8.39 7.67 34 11 105.5
    Manning 371 555 66.8 4002 7.21 6.83 27 12 95

    2009 Comp. Att Pct. Yards YPA Real YPA TD INT Rating
    Rivers 317 486 65.2 4254 8.75 7.96 28 9 104.4
    Manning 393 571 68.8 4500 7.88 7.35 33 16 99.9

    2010 Comp. Att Pct. Yards YPA Real YPA TD INT Rating
    Rivers 357 541 66.0 4710 8.71 7.76 30 13 101.8
    Manning 450 679 66.3 4700 6.92 6.62 33 17 91.9



    The 2010 season was a particularly dominating performance by Rivers. He averaged nearly 2.0 yards MORE per attempt than Manning, passing for 10 more yards over the course of the season on 138 fewer attempts.

    Rivers' personal average per attempt topped 8.3 yards per toss all three years, putting him on a very short list of elite passers to accomplish this feat three years in a row. This list includes:
    Johnny Unitas (1963-65)
    Kurt Warner (1999-2001)
    and Steve Young, who did it four straight seasons (1991-94).
    Topping 8.3 YPA is truly an impressive feat, especially over such a high number of pass attempts. Even many of the greats fail to do it consistently.

    Dan Marino topped 8.3 YPA in his career only once, in his legendary 1984 season (9.01 YPA). Same for Peyton Manning. He, too, has topped 8.3 YPA only once in his career, back in his record-setting 2004 campaign (9.17 YPA).

    Bottom line: purely in terms of passing the ball over the past several seasons, Rivers has been far more productive on fewer opportunities, and has been especially superior in his ability to get the ball downfield.

    Rivers is 30 and in the “meaty” part of an NFL quarterback’s prime years.He’s coming off a “down” year in which he still completed 63 percent of his passes, threw for more than 4,600 yards, tossed 27 TD passes (20 INTs) and had a passer rating of 88.7, while finishing fifth in the NFL in Real Passing Yards Per Attempt.

    Manning, on the other hand, turns 36 in a few days, hasn’t played a real football game since January 2011, and has had anywhere from two to five neck surgeries in the last 18 months, depending on whom you believe. Obviously, if you were going to start a franchise today and needed a QB, Rivers would be the smarter choice.

    Rivers and the Chargers consistently beat Manning and the Colts.Rivers is 4-1 against Manning’s Colts since taking over as San Diego’s full-time QB in 2006, including a 2-0 record in the post-season. It should be noted Rivers had help at QB in one game: In the 2007 AFC divisional playoffs at Indianapolis, Rivers was having a sensational game (14 of 19, 264 yards, 3 TD, 1 INT, 133.2 passer rating) but had to leave with a knee injury. It fell to backup QB Billy Volek to lead San Diego’s offense on the winning TD drive late in the fourth quarter.

    Rivers’ numbers in those five games against Manning’s Colts: 90 for 133, 1,058 yards, 5 TD, 4 INT, 91.6 passer rating.

    No NFL squad has given Manning more trouble over his career in Indianapolis than the Chargers, a team that Manning’s Broncos will have to face twice per season. If one includes the Chargers’ shocking upset win against a then 13-0 Indy team late in the 2005 regular season (Drew Brees, not Rivers, was the starting QB for SD that day), Manning is just 1-5 in his last six games against San Diego (1-4 against Rivers; 0-2 in the post-season).

    His numbers in those six games: 181 for 283, 1,916 yards, 11 TD, 15 INT, 74.5 passer rating.

    Sure, Rivers took something of a step back in 2011, with 20 INT and an 88.7 passer rating. But he was still on the field. Manning was not, of course. And Rivers was still getting the ball down the field fairly pretty well, with 4,624 passing yards and 7.3 YPA. Manning averaged 6.8 YPA in his last season on the field.

    We know. We can see the hate mail coming already. Peyton Manning is above reproach. And anyone that challenges the “Denver Broncos are going to win the Super Bowl” hysteria deserves to die of cancer, as one eloquent Twitter fan posted to us recently.

    But the reality of the situation, here in March 2012, is this: Manning’s been on a slow decline over the past several seasons, he’s well into the back-nine of his productive years by any rational definition, he joins a team that had a very bad defense in 2011, he's historically struggled against the Chargers, and he’s not even the most productive quarterback in his new division, the AFC West.

    That title belongs to Philip Rivers.
    Payton Manning is truly one of the greatest QBs ever. The nicest thing about the trade is that it is probably going to solidify our fanbase in the manner it was under Elway sooo long ago (and mostly also under Plummer 2003-2005).

    I will miss Tebow as I saw something special in the way he played (a raw Elway (mindset)/Plummer (mindset/dual threat) hybrid). I think that he has great potential, but there is also no doubt that right now Payton Manning is a major upgrade.

    The scary scenario to me is not his age, not his neck but his historic performance against the Chargers. Payton Manning was our nemesis and the Chargers his. How great would Plummer have been in the eyes of fans if we had not been humiliated by Payton in 2003

  • #2
    That analyst doesn't know what he's talking about.


    Bad defense? Lol.


    Worse than most Colts defense? LMAO

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by BroncoFanDK View Post
      Payton Manning is truly one of the greatest QBs ever. The nicest thing about the trade is that it is probably going to solidify our fanbase in the manner it was under Elway sooo long ago (and mostly also under Plummer 2003-2005).

      I will miss Tebow as I saw something special in the way he played (a raw Elway (mindset)/Plummer (mindset/dual threat) hybrid). I think that he has great potential, but there is also no doubt that right now Payton Manning is a major upgrade.

      The scary scenario to me is not his age, not his neck but his historic performance against the Chargers. Payton Manning was our nemesis and the Chargers his. How great would Plummer have been in the eyes of fans if we had not been humiliated by Payton in 2003 & 2004. What would it have done for Payton if Chargers didn't knock him out of the playoffs every time.

      Cold hard football facts has this article that hammers it out - Scary

      The move for Manning will be good for Bronco Country for the next couple of years, and only time will tell whether it was right or wrong. It is going to be interesting to see but the Manning/Rivers angle is a bit scary

      Payton Manning is truly one of the greatest QBs ever. The nicest thing about the trade is that it is probably going to solidify our fanbase in the manner it was under Elway sooo long ago (and mostly also under Plummer 2003-2005).

      I will miss Tebow as I saw something special in the way he played (a raw Elway (mindset)/Plummer (mindset/dual threat) hybrid). I think that he has great potential, but there is also no doubt that right now Payton Manning is a major upgrade.

      The scary scenario to me is not his age, not his neck but his historic performance against the Chargers. Payton Manning was our nemesis and the Chargers his. How great would Plummer have been in the eyes of fans if we had not been humiliated by Payton in 2003
      If we get a healthy Peyton Manning this will be a steal, even at $20 million a year. If not...
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      Adopted Bronco: Von Miller

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      • #4
        No, the real scary Peyton Manning scenario is him failing to better Tim Tebow's record of getting the Broncos to a .500 record and the second round of the NFL playoffs.

        If that happens, John Elway will instantly go from "Broncos legend" to "the dope who dumped Tebow".

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Nap Lajewie View Post
          No, the real scary Peyton Manning scenario is him failing to better Tim Tebow's record of getting the Broncos to a .500 record and the second round of the NFL playoffs.

          If that happens, John Elway will instantly go from "Broncos legend" to "the dope who dumped Tebow".
          Instantly? Really? Insightful!
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          Adopted Bronco: Von Miller

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          • #6
            Originally posted by BroncoFanDK View Post
            Payton Manning is truly one of the greatest QBs ever. The nicest thing about the trade is that it is probably going to solidify our fanbase in the manner it was under Elway sooo long ago (and mostly also under Plummer 2003-2005).

            I will miss Tebow as I saw something special in the way he played (a raw Elway (mindset)/Plummer (mindset/dual threat) hybrid). I think that he has great potential, but there is also no doubt that right now Payton Manning is a major upgrade.

            The scary scenario to me is not his age, not his neck but his historic performance against the Chargers. Payton Manning was our nemesis and the Chargers his. How great would Plummer have been in the eyes of fans if we had not been humiliated by Payton in 2003 & 2004. What would it have done for Payton if Chargers didn't knock him out of the playoffs every time.

            Cold hard football facts has this article that hammers it out - Scary

            The move for Manning will be good for Bronco Country for the next couple of years, and only time will tell whether it was right or wrong. It is going to be interesting to see but the Manning/Rivers angle is a bit scary

            Payton Manning is truly one of the greatest QBs ever. The nicest thing about the trade is that it is probably going to solidify our fanbase in the manner it was under Elway sooo long ago (and mostly also under Plummer 2003-2005).

            I will miss Tebow as I saw something special in the way he played (a raw Elway (mindset)/Plummer (mindset/dual threat) hybrid). I think that he has great potential, but there is also no doubt that right now Payton Manning is a major upgrade.

            The scary scenario to me is not his age, not his neck but his historic performance against the Chargers. Payton Manning was our nemesis and the Chargers his. How great would Plummer have been in the eyes of fans if we had not been humiliated by Payton in 2003
            This is a great post! Chock full of interesting facts and comparisons. Thanks for sharing
            I WAS A BRONCO FAN BEFORE I WAS BORN

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Nap Lajewie View Post
              No, the real scary Peyton Manning scenario is him failing to better Tim Tebow's record of getting the Broncos to a .500 record and the second round of the NFL playoffs.

              If that happens, John Elway will instantly go from "Broncos legend" to "the dope who dumped Tebow".
              Wrong
              Bring Back ORANGE Sunday!!!

              Tim Tebow combines the intensity of Ray Lewis with the throwing ability of... Ray Lewis.

              "It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."-Andrew Jackson

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Nap Lajewie View Post
                If that happens, John Elway will instantly go from "Broncos legend" to "the dope who dumped Tebow".
                No, he won't.



                RE: the article, I really like reading CHFF stuff and have done for a long time now. That being said I often get the impression that they get a bit caught up in their numbers, and forget that sometimes you just need to watch the game. For example, our defense wasn't as bad (on the field) as their statistical analysis in previous articles made it out to be. Regarding the Rivers/Manning stuff, you can't argue with history. But Peyton's on a new team and the Chargers are not as good as they once were.

                Looking at isolated statistics alone, you could make the case that Philip Rivers is currently the most productive QB in the AFC West. Fair enough (for now). But you know if you went into a sports bar (anywhere except SD) and tried to make a case for Philip Rivers being the "better" quarterback, you'd be laughed out of town. Take from that what you will.
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                - ★ -
                2012 Adopt a Bronco : Joe Mays

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Nap Lajewie View Post
                  No, the real scary Peyton Manning scenario is him failing to better Tim Tebow's record of getting the Broncos to a .500 record and the second round of the NFL playoffs.

                  If that happens, John Elway will instantly go from "Broncos legend" to "the dope who dumped Tebow".
                  Ridding your team of a first round bust is never a bad thing.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    According to profootballreference.com, Peyton Manning's career record against the Chargers is 4-3 (.571).
                    "That's a crap question."
                    - Kyle Orton

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by neckbeard View Post
                      According to profootballreference.com, Peyton Manning's career record against the Chargers is 4-3 (.571).
                      Hopefully, that will improve.
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                      Adopted Bronco: Von Miller

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                      • #12
                        I'm actually very surprised by the amount of fear and trepidation I'm sensing from Broncos fans. You guys have been through a lot in the last 13 years, huh?
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                        Rogue Colts Fan

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Indy View Post
                          I'm actually very surprised by the amount of fear and trepidation I'm sensing from Broncos fans. You guys have been through a lot in the last 13 years, huh?
                          Fear and trepidation? Hardly. I just want to see a healthy Peyton Manning.
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                          Adopted Bronco: Von Miller

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by neckbeard View Post
                            According to profootballreference.com, Peyton Manning's career record against the Chargers is 4-3 (.571).
                            The last time we lost to them in the playoffs left a stain on Manning's name. The whole deal was warped. We had a 13-3 season and opened the divisional round @ home against the chargers. During the game the Bolts lost both their starting QB (Rivers) and their starting RB (LT) and they still won. It was a smudge on the Colts and Manning's rep.

                            That's why the perception that the Bolts own him, strictly because of the ridiculousness of that game.
                            sigpic
                            Rogue Colts Fan

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                            • #15
                              I'm nervous for Peyton and nervous about his health. But, I don't worry about him specifically in relation to the Chargers. Though, I think they may compete for the division. They should be much better than they have been the past couple of years.

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