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Joe Mays vs. Nate Irving

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Gbt31 View Post
    This was a very surprising read on Joe Mays.
    http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog...e-linebackers/
    +CP

    For people who're too lazy to click the link, the low-down is that Joe Mays (58 tackles on run snaps last year) made the tackle on 18.01% of run snaps run by the opposing offense, which puts him 7th in the league. If you take into account where the tackles were being made in relation to the distance and the down (i.e. was the tackle a "win" for the D) - of his 58 tackles, 46 were "wins". He had the 3rd most "wins" in the league.

    Which leads you on to...

    To fully appreciate the how many stops a defender has made, you need to once again look at how much they’re on the field. That’s what brought the Run Stop Percentage Signature Stat to life; that desire to measure how often defenders were responsible for offensive failures relative to how often they were on the field.

    It’s through this stat we see that the Denver Broncos may have scored themselves a bargain with the re-signing of Joe Mays, as their middle linebacker led the league with a stop percentage of 14.29%. He was joined at the top by NaVorro Bowman who had an identical number as both men frequently left their mark on running backs.

    1. Joe Mays, DEN
    2. NaVorro Bowman, SF
    3. Brian Cushing, HST
    4. Ray Lewis, BLT
    5. Perry Riley, WAS

    Of course, there’s more to playing linebacker and contributing in run defense than making tackles and defensive stops–you need to be able to stand-up blockers, blow-up fullbacks, and re-direct runners–but it doesn’t hurt if you can make those plays that result in a defensive win. The Run Stop Percentage does as good a job as any at showing who is really getting it done.
    If he can stop taking poor angles and clean up the missed tackles, then we're set at MLB for now.
    There's no reason to think it's not possible for him to improve - he's shown he can already.

    We'll see...
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    • #47
      I like mays he brings some aggression to our D with that being said he needs to work on his form tackling
      I hate seeing him go for a big "hit" only to see the ball carrier bounce off and continue to gain
      Yards he also seems stiff at the hips when he tries to turn and tackle in his back peddle he just falls down
      With an arm tackle

      I don't know How good irving is but I hope he's the future

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      • #48
        Mays is one of those players who made me notice him. I didn't have to go looking, suddenly there was this guy popping people and seeming to be in on a lot of important stops. So for that reason, I like Mays quite a bit. However, I don't feel like I have seen enough of Irving to have much of an opinion one way or the other yet.
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        • #49
          Mays is pretty good against the run but there's times where he misses tackles and it ends up being a long gain. The Isaac Redman run where goodman caught him from behind is the play I think of now when I think of Mays.

          And I know this might not be his fault but seeing him covering Gronk against pats was horrible.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Kazmo View Post
            Mays is no where near Wilson even with taking the leadership out of the equation. Wilson could play sideline to sideline unlike Mays who is relagated to inside the tackle work basically. I hope Mays doesn't see the starting MLB spot because he just isn't a good 4-3 MLB. What is he best at? Hitting people. What is he bad at? Hitting the right people, finding people to hit, taking people down when they aren't in optimal hitting range. I just want a real leader at MLB again
            Why do you say he does not play like Wilson? Both Wilson and Mays try and knock people over instead of wraping them up. Both missed tackles on occasion but usuallly their hits stop people in their tracks. Neither one are exceptionally good in pass coverage.

            Mays does play side to side and if you are refering to him hurting DJ last year it was actually on a play that went to the opposite side of Mays and as he was persuing he helped gang tackle a the player. Unfortunately DJ's arm was wrapped around the other player and when Mays hit the pile it dislocated DJ's elbow.

            Could have happened to anyone and it is certainly not May's fault. It just was a freak thing. Mays is a pretty fearless player and he hits hard, just like Wilson.

            Thats my take on it any way and I am sticking to it!
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            • #51
              I have no clue.

              Honestly, no idea.

              We'll see in camp, Mays was acceptable last year and we don't know how Irving is doing.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by one_bad_55 View Post
                Why do you say he does not play like Wilson? Both Wilson and Mays try and knock people over instead of wraping them up. Both missed tackles on occasion but usuallly their hits stop people in their tracks. Neither one are exceptionally good in pass coverage.

                Mays does play side to side and if you are refering to him hurting DJ last year it was actually on a play that went to the opposite side of Mays and as he was persuing he helped gang tackle a the player. Unfortunately DJ's arm was wrapped around the other player and when Mays hit the pile it dislocated DJ's elbow.

                Could have happened to anyone and it is certainly not May's fault. It just was a freak thing. Mays is a pretty fearless player and he hits hard, just like Wilson.

                Thats my take on it any way and I am sticking to it!
                Al Wilson didn't miss many tackles at all. Mays isn't a sideline to sideline defender. He has to rely on the OLBs to force the run back towards him or slow it down long enough for him to get there. Al Wilson could run it down before the RB had time to get to the edge. Wilson was the 3rd best LB during his days behind Ray Lewis and Brian Urlacher. And Al Wilson was great in coverage, he wasn't good at actually catching the ball but he could get down the deep middle of the field in the cover 2 and cover TEs one on one if he had to. But he didn't have to do that because for most of his career we had a S that was capable of matching up against the TEs one on one. Al Wilson rarely ever took a false step, Mays does it all the time.

                Irving is going to start this season. Bringing up Mays run stopping percentage from last year doesn't mean much to me. All it means is that our DTs did their job and didn't let the interior o-linemen get to them and Mays got to fill the holes on the runs to the inside. Mays is still going to be bad at anticipating plays, that really isn't something you can get better at. He doesn't have the instincts to get much better than he is now. Instincts aren't something you can really improve. Mays isn't a read and react player, he's a 2 down thumper that plays at his best when he's torpedoing full speed towards the LoS and that's basically a 3-4 TED LB. 4-3 MLBs have to be able to read and react, I think Irving will do better at that

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                • #53
                  Al Wilson

                  Originally posted by one_bad_55 View Post
                  Why do you say he does not play like Wilson? Both Wilson and Mays try and knock people over instead of wraping them up. Both missed tackles on occasion but usuallly their hits stop people in their tracks. Neither one are exceptionally good in pass coverage.

                  Mays does play side to side and if you are refering to him hurting DJ last year it was actually on a play that went to the opposite side of Mays and as he was persuing he helped gang tackle a the player. Unfortunately DJ's arm was wrapped around the other player and when Mays hit the pile it dislocated DJ's elbow.

                  Could have happened to anyone and it is certainly not May's fault. It just was a freak thing. Mays is a pretty fearless player and he hits hard, just like Wilson.

                  Thats my take on it any way and I am sticking to it!
                  Al Wilson could cover a seam receiver, in Tampa 2, as deep as that receiver wanted to go. This is beyond Mays' range in man coverage.

                  He could consistently take good angles, shed blocks make big hits on ball carriers form C Gap to C Gap. Mays' triangle of responsibility is a gap less.

                  Al Wilson was the master of short zone coverage and knew his area and how to break on the ball; he was feared in in the Hook/Drag Zone. Mays sometims gets a little lost.

                  Al Wilson was a true leader and QB of the D. Mays not as much.

                  It may be unfair to compare Mays to Wilson who is the greatest Mike Backer in a split front D the Broncos have ever had. The Broncos liked Mays enough to re-sign him. It will be interesting to see the Mays/Irving competition.
                  "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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                  • #54
                    In all honesty I'm a big fan of Mays..

                    Yeah he's not the best at the position.. but man I love seeing him hit people.. It's just so... WHAM!!!.. I love it.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by samparnell View Post
                      Al Wilson could cover a seam receiver, in Tampa 2, as deep as that receiver wanted to go. This is beyond Mays' range in man coverage.

                      He could consistently take good angles, shed blocks make big hits on ball carriers form C Gap to C Gap. Mays' triangle of responsibility is a gap less.

                      Al Wilson was the master of short zone coverage and knew his area and how to break on the ball; he was feared in in the Hook/Drag Zone. Mays sometims gets a little lost.

                      Al Wilson was a true leader and QB of the D. Mays not as much.

                      It may be unfair to compare Mays to Wilson who is the greatest Mike Backer in a split front D the Broncos have ever had. The Broncos liked Mays enough to re-sign him. It will be interesting to see the Mays/Irving competition.
                      Thanks Sam, people forget he was the identity of the team for nearly a decade. He was truly a special player.
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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Al Wilson 4 Mayor View Post
                        Thanks Sam, people forget he was the identity of the team for nearly a decade. He was truly a special player.
                        Good ole Big Al

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Al Wilson 4 Mayor View Post
                          Thanks Sam, people forget he was the identity of the team for nearly a decade. He was truly a special player.
                          So which of you three is actually Al Wilson? I have an official Al Wilson Jersey I need a signature on.

                          There is no doubt that Al was "one of" my favorite Broncos LB. All I am saying is when Mays hits people it reminds me of Al. Thats all, nothing more nothing less. :thumb:

                          If Mays was as good as Wilson we wouldn't be having this discussion, now would we?

                          I have not seen enough of Nate to say either way so until Nate can step up and out preform Mays than Mays is the man.
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                          2014 Adopted Bronco - DeMarcus Ware - 2015 Adopted Bronco - Von Miller

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by one_bad_55 View Post
                            So which of you three is actually Al Wilson? I have an official Al Wilson Jersey I need a signature on.

                            There is no doubt that Al was "one of" my favorite Broncos LB. All I am saying is when Mays hits people it reminds me of Al. Thats all, nothing more nothing less. :thumb:

                            If Mays was as good as Wilson we wouldn't be having this discussion, now would we?

                            I have not seen enough of Nate to say either way so until Nate can step up and out preform Mays than Mays is the man.
                            I agree I loved al Wilson weve been missing his leadership since he retired mays may hit hard but there's
                            A lot more to playing middle linebacker then hard hits

                            I agree also Irving got into a car accident and we don't know how well hell play just hope he's
                            Good

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by one_bad_55 View Post
                              So which of you three is actually Al Wilson? I have an official Al Wilson Jersey I need a signature on.

                              There is no doubt that Al was "one of" my favorite Broncos LB. All I am saying is when Mays hits people it reminds me of Al. Thats all, nothing more nothing less. :thumb:

                              If Mays was as good as Wilson we wouldn't be having this discussion, now would we?

                              I have not seen enough of Nate to say either way so until Nate can step up and out preform Mays than Mays is the man.
                              It's him.

                              Nice card collection btw. Do you have a Rich Jackson? He was a good friend of Floyd.
                              "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by samparnell View Post
                                It's him.

                                Nice card collection btw. Do you have a Rich Jackson? He was a good friend of Floyd.
                                Lots more, however when they are added it just looks like a big blob on the screen when I get it to the required size. Had to pick a limited few.

                                There are many players that are honorable mentions that are not on the list. :thumb:
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                                2016 Adopted Bronco - Derek Wolfe
                                2014 Adopted Bronco - DeMarcus Ware - 2015 Adopted Bronco - Von Miller

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