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  • Acedude
    replied
    JD nor Beadles are at the All-Pro level, but OK for now.

    Leave a comment:


  • phaytal
    replied
    Despite Saturday going elsewhere, I still voted for JD's the future now.

    Walton, along with the rest f our O-Line showed huge promise from the Detriot game on. (Lets just ignore the way KC and NE owned us for the sake of my argument, because they flat out shut our offense down, and I do not think that falls on the O-Line whatsoever)

    Everyone in the league played us run-first, yet we were still able to get positive yardage up the gut, and manhandle very impressive D-Lines. Walton was a big part of that push. He improved week to week. Neither McGahee nor Tebow are edge runners, and both averaged around 5 ypc for the season, which is hugely impressive. To add to that, Walton is fairly nimble, and is able to pull if necessary.

    I might be overstating a bit, but I think Walton has a chance to play a similar role as Jeff Saturday, who, in my opinion, is the smartest, and best pass blocking center to ever play the game. Right now he is a better run blocker than pass blocker, but last year he showed signs of brilliance (see the way he absolutely owned the Jets gap blitzes). Hopefully Peyton can teach him how to be an elite pass blocker as well.

    My 2c.

    Leave a comment:


  • MarshallMoss
    replied
    I just want to say thumbs up to everyone who has contributed with their opinions. I personally have been enlightened by all sides of the argument. I wish most threads would go in this direction...but I guess that is just wishful thinking

    It looks like at the end of the day, we as fans, have very mixed feelings on JD and Beadles for that matter...let us see how much of an impact another years experience and the Manning effect will have on these two young linemen.

    Leave a comment:


  • VikingBronco
    replied
    good post

    Originally posted by samparnell View Post
    I charted the plays of most of the games in 2011 and posted my observations.

    Since I've been interested in O-Line play for a long time, I watched each guy on each play until I could see what he was doing.

    Those who have played/coached the game know the truth of "There ain't a horse that's never been rode and ain't a cowboy that's never been throwed."

    I can remember seeing an EZ view of Brian Urlacher being run over by Jerome Bettis on his way to a score. Does that mean he sucks?

    My take on Walton is that he is a good run blocker who needs some work on his pass blocking. Since pass blocking is easier to coach and do than run blocking and he has a good position coach, he will improve in that area. Luke Richesson and staff will have their shot at working with each position group.

    To say that the Broncos couldn't run to their left is as idiotic as saying Tebow couldn't throw while moving to his right. McGahee's longest run of the season was to the left, unbalanced line at Oakland, I believe. Tebow threw a TD pass while moving to his right, against Chicago, I think.

    I would be glad to talk OL with anyone who knows the difference between a base, base away, down, fold, reach, scoop, influence, pull to trap/lead/kickout/seal. Instead, one guy reads and believes PFF and everyone else piles on the bandwagon.

    To so many, the solution is always cut the player and fire the coach. That sentiment may come from those who have done neither.
    Good post. One worth reading!

    Leave a comment:


  • JW7
    replied
    Two things that I believe should be noted of Walton and Beadles.

    #1 - They both have started 42 total games in just two season (8 Preseason and 2 Playoff games included)

    #2 - They faced 8-9 people in the box last year due to Tebow's passing ability.

    I think both players have had growing pains and struggles but I think we have a fairly young line that will only get better.
    Last edited by JW7; 04-02-2012, 01:24 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • crash123go
    replied
    Originally posted by jhildebrand View Post
    They weren't rookies this year!

    The line was an issue when orton played this year. Orton was the QB who "gve us the best chance to win" in part because he could do everything Tebow couldn't from the POCKET.

    Meh. I think the draft will be telling. I think if the right DT isn't available, Denver may seriously look at OL. They have 96 Million reasons to.
    I think that its not only DT, but if a talented defensive player is there they will take em but if they are gone I'm kinda hoping for konz cause he could really completed our line with great power inside

    Leave a comment:


  • jhildebrand
    replied
    Originally posted by MarshallMoss View Post
    In all fairness...they were two rookies, that's a lot of pressure. It's not like Walton had the luxury of being put with a seasoned O-line like Pouncey had his rookie season...to add, Orton must have one of the worst QB pocket presence I have ever witnessed, and we had no running game so teams were teeing up on us!

    I'm not saying Walton is the answer, but I think it is unfair to judge him until he gets a chance to prove himself 3 years in with a somewhat conventional offense.
    They weren't rookies this year!

    The line was an issue when orton played this year. Orton was the QB who "gve us the best chance to win" in part because he could do everything Tebow couldn't from the POCKET.

    Meh. I think the draft will be telling. I think if the right DT isn't available, Denver may seriously look at OL. They have 96 Million reasons to.

    Leave a comment:


  • crash123go
    replied
    I will go off of what I see and watch in the games and that is that the middle of our oline is one of the best at double teams, these boys are still young and are getting better. If Walton hadn't gotten beaten up twice by wilfork he would've had a great season. Each one of our lineman is great at something but not everything, beadles is great at pulling if not one of the best pulling gaurds in football, kuper is great at pass blocking and Walton is a great double team center. The entire oline improved the past 2 seasons and will improve again this year

    Leave a comment:


  • MarshallMoss
    replied
    The reality is the line was bad with Orton and Tebow. There were several occasions where Orton was sacked before getting to a 3rd step in a 3 step drop. Almost always the pressure came from the middle to left side of the line-Walton and Beadles.
    In all fairness...they were two rookies, that's a lot of pressure. It's not like Walton had the luxury of being put with a seasoned O-line like Pouncey had his rookie season...to add, Orton must have one of the worst QB pocket presence I have ever witnessed, and we had no running game so teams were teeing up on us!

    I'm not saying Walton is the answer, but I think it is unfair to judge him until he gets a chance to prove himself 3 years in with a somewhat conventional offense.

    Leave a comment:


  • Papa-pwn
    replied
    Wakton's alright in pass protection, but didn't seem to do too well in run blocking.

    Leave a comment:


  • jhildebrand
    replied
    Originally posted by MarshallMoss View Post
    I think our whole line was pretty bad with pass protection under Tebow...just to hard to protect with conviction when you have no idea what the Qb is going to do.
    The reality is the line was bad with Orton and Tebow. There were several occasions where Orton was sacked before getting to a 3rd step in a 3 step drop. Almost always the pressure came from the middle to left side of the line-Walton and Beadles.

    Leave a comment:


  • MarshallMoss
    replied
    Settling for Walton would be settling for mediocrity. A running QB makes pass protection easier for o linemen since defenses have to play to contain the QB. he could barely do that.

    Double team? Can't even do that properly.

    He has trouble selling the snap. Been that way since he was drafted. In the playoffs the Pats took advantage.

    You guys who are defending him only give him credit for his run blocking. How many teams have had running QBs and NOT been able to run the ball?

    With Orton under center, run blocking was non-existent.

    He gives up pressure up the middle consistently. How many times has Tebow been flushed out of the pocket? A lot.

    Same for Orton. Only he's too slow so he makes our tackles look bad once the DE chases him down.

    Our QBs have not been able to step up in the pocket much with Walton under center. Manning will chew him out if this continues.
    Very good points...but I cannot believe it is this extreme of an answer. I think our whole line was pretty bad with pass protection under Tebow...just to hard to protect with conviction when you have no idea what the Qb is going to do. Than you factor the enormous amount of energy consumed in trying to extend either throwing plays or block downfield with one of the most sophisticated running games...you can see why it would be easy to get run over and not hold up the point of attack, especially as the game wears on.

    I think our O-line had an unfair amount put on them last year...there is no O-line in football the was asked to do so much in so little time like ours.

    Not only will Manning allow our O-line to conserve more energy because of his quick reads and release...Manning will also demand perfectly executed plays, that will create a consistency and cohesiveness our line has not be able to demonstrate. When you have this going for you there is a sense of conviction and confidence that we have not seen since the Terell Davis/Elway years!

    I think we truly cannot judge Walton until after this upcoming season. He has been through more than any young C probably ever has in one year:

    - John Fox sophisticated run system
    - Unpredictable/inconsistent QB
    - very young line to execute all this with

    If anything...I can't wait to see how mature mentally and physically our whole line is this year after going through such a grueling year. Last year's experience will make a huge growth impact on our entire line for this year...

    Bank it!

    Leave a comment:


  • jhildebrand
    replied
    Originally posted by JakeNbake View Post
    So you say all our players suck... and our team sucks.

    So that makes you creditable? I'm not really sure that's how it works.
    Where did I say all our players suck?

    Let me help you, Baked. I DIDN'T! Last time I checked there are 33 starters on a football team. Moreno, Orton, and Walton hardly make up the whole team

    The point being made is there are many posters here who can't think and post for themselves. They follow the masses. The point is the unpopular opinion, even when it is shown to be the right opinion , is drowned out, criticized, attacked, and ridiculed by the masses. The only thing more disturbing than that is the massive amount of sterilizing to the threads themselves! The critical has often been removed.

    What makes me credible is I don't buddy up with other posters. I don't troll threads telling people to go root for another team. I can post based on my own thoughts and opinions without regard to what is popular or what others think!

    Then there are the bogus posts that don't add to the thread. That don't have a take on the topic. That put words in people's mouths. That don't have an opinion nor add to the discussion. Basically like yours above and most of yours.

    Leave a comment:


  • rst08tierney
    replied
    Its all TEBOWS FAULT

    Leave a comment:


  • samparnell
    replied
    Walton

    I charted the plays of most of the games in 2011 and posted my observations.

    Since I've been interested in O-Line play for a long time, I watched each guy on each play until I could see what he was doing.

    Those who have played/coached the game know the truth of "There ain't a horse that's never been rode and ain't a cowboy that's never been throwed."

    I can remember seeing an EZ view of Brian Urlacher being run over by Jerome Bettis on his way to a score. Does that mean he sucks?

    My take on Walton is that he is a good run blocker who needs some work on his pass blocking. Since pass blocking is easier to coach and do than run blocking and he has a good position coach, he will improve in that area. Luke Richesson and staff will have their shot at working with each position group.

    To say that the Broncos couldn't run to their left is as idiotic as saying Tebow couldn't throw while moving to his right. McGahee's longest run of the season was to the left, unbalanced line at Oakland, I believe. Tebow threw a TD pass while moving to his right, against Chicago, I think.

    I would be glad to talk OL with anyone who knows the difference between a base, base away, down, fold, reach, scoop, influence, pull to trap/lead/kickout/seal. Instead, one guy reads and believes PFF and everyone else piles on the bandwagon.

    To so many, the solution is always cut the player and fire the coach. That sentiment may come from those who have done neither.

    Leave a comment:

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