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  • Greatness

    I don't know if this thread belongs here or not, but here I go.

    How do you define who belongs among the greatest QBs of all time? WE ALL AGREE that ELWAY is the GOAT, but how do you define the rest?

    Is it stats? If that's the case, then Brett Favre's up there.
    Is it rings? If that's the case, then Bradshaw and Montana are up there.

    So, how do YOU personally judge the greats?
    "Happiness is just an illusion, filled with sadness and confusion." Jimmy Ruffin

  • #2
    I judge them based on my own opinion of watching them. A combonation of stats and wins imo. IMO Brady is the best QB in the league, and has been for a while. He puts up great seasons with mediocre WR's. It was only until 2007, that he finally got a legit WR. He had 14-2 seasons, SB MVP's, 3 Superbowls, and legit seasons statwise with WR's like Givens and Patton, and what not.

    Some say its all about SB's, and some say its all about stats, but I think they both go hand in hand. Now if Peyton can win a SB or 2 with us, and continue on with his great career, then he may end up as the greatest. For having great stats at every category, plus having multiple SB rings, and being the only starting QB to win a SB with 2 different teams.

    Just my opinion though, but its a combo of both.
    :salute: :goz: :salute:

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    • #3
      Combination, though I favor stats more than rings. Championships are a team accomplishment. Some QB's have been lucky to have had a great defense, etc. to help them out. (My SN gives you an idea of who I think the greatest is *smile*)
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      • #4
        Originally posted by socalpeytonfan View Post
        Combination, though I favor stats more than rings. Championships are a team accomplishment. Some QB's have been lucky to have had a great defense, etc. to help them out. (My SN gives you an idea of who I think the greatest is *smile*)
        The problem that I have with Peyton being among the greatest is that he's 9-10 in the POs & Vinnateri is the one who beat BAL en route to the SB.
        The problem I have with Brady being included is that ever since "Spygate" came out, he's been .500 or worse in the playoffs, but hey that's just me.

        MY PERSONAL LIST: (In case anyone cares)

        Elway
        Favre
        Marino
        Montana
        "Happiness is just an illusion, filled with sadness and confusion." Jimmy Ruffin

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        • #5
          Originally posted by HUMCALC View Post
          The problem that I have with Peyton being among the greatest is that he's 9-10 in the POs & Vinnateri is the one who beat BAL en route to the SB.
          The problem I have with Brady being included is that ever since "Spygate" came out, he's been .500 or worse in the playoffs, but hey that's just me.

          MY PERSONAL LIST: (In case anyone cares)

          Elway
          Favre
          Marino
          Montana
          Yea, but since spygate, Brady has still gone to 2 SB's, and has had a 16-0 season and 2 14-2 seasons. Still pretty damn good.

          I really don't think SpyGate is the reason why the Pats won those SB's.
          :salute: :goz: :salute:

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          • #6
            It's hard to define "Greatness" among QB's in this league let alone rank them.

            There are many contributing factors in how "great" a QB is. To me, it's the overall career accomplishments that always includes a "team" around them. Our beloved Elway is amongst the best there is no doubt, but to define all of them and to even name some that missed out on holding the trophy could be a chore.

            How many great QB's made it to the Super Bowl and lost? Does that mean they aren't worthy of recognition because they lost the big game after what they actually accomplished in that particular year?

            So many QB's are judged on rings and thank goodness John got his there at the end. Imagine if he hadn't won a ring. Would that change the way we think about him being our great guy for so many years?

            With Peyton coming to town, we have a great one after what he did in Indy. Manning is a huge land for us and I can't believe that they let him go. Their loss is our gain.

            That means Manning is amongst this "greatness" talk
            :usa: *** God Bless Our Military Men And Women*** :usa:

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            • #7
              Originally posted by BroncosPWNn00bs View Post
              I judge them based on my own opinion of watching them. A combonation of stats and wins imo. IMO Brady is the best QB in the league, and has been for a while. He puts up great seasons with mediocre WR's. It was only until 2007, that he finally got a legit WR. He had 14-2 seasons, SB MVP's, 3 Superbowls, and legit seasons statwise with WR's like Givens and Patton, and what not.

              Some say its all about SB's, and some say its all about stats, but I think they both go hand in hand. Now if Peyton can win a SB or 2 with us, and continue on with his great career, then he may end up as the greatest. For having great stats at every category, plus having multiple SB rings, and being the only starting QB to win a SB with 2 different teams.

              Just my opinion though, but its a combo of both.
              This.

              That's how I see it. As a combo of both, but based on my own opinion of watching them.
              I also agree with what you said about Brady, but it wont be admitted on a forum where he is hated. I also agree that spygate plays little to no role in NE's super bowl win.

              Frankly I think Brady is better than Manning, Manning is smarter.

              But with my opinion of watching them, I also include how they react on the field, sidelines, with teammates in game. Their character, are they in it for the love of the game or are they just in it for easy money.

              Edit: In for the record I think Brett is the GOAT.
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              • #8
                1. Wins with Championships (Division, Conf and Super Bowls) counting for allot
                2. TDs (passing and rushing) and Passing Yards
                3. Ability to make other players better then they are. I can write a paragraph on all what this means.
                4. Clutch. Can write another paragraph

                All those can be higher then the other depending on the situation. If I was serious and had time I would come up with a complex rating system.

                IMO if Elway played for NY, Pitt or Dallas he would be top 5 in NFL players all time in most polls.

                On the opposite end, Favre is way overated. People love him but imo of players who will are in the HoF (cuz we all know he will be) he is the least clutch all time. They do not keep track but if they did I am sure he lost more games, including more IMPORTANT games, with bad plays then any other QB who is considered great.

                Elway essentially took two seperate teams to the Super Bowl and the lesser team he took there three times. No one has ever done that as QB.
                Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

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                • #9
                  It's both stats and rings. But I think Steve Young is the best QB of all time.

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                  • #10
                    I would agree that it's combination. Stats and superbowl titles matter.

                    Stats-wise, greatest would be Favre.
                    Titles-wise, it would be Montana and Bradshaw.

                    For talent-wise around them, the ones who did the best with little or no talent until later in their careers would be Elway and Brady.
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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by BroncoFanBoy View Post
                      I would agree that it's combination. Stats and superbowl titles matter.

                      Stats-wise, greatest would be Favre.
                      Titles-wise, it would be Montana and Bradshaw.

                      For talent-wise around them, the ones who did the best with little or no talent until later in their careers would be Elway and Brady.
                      Yes, but Elway did it in spite of the system, and Brady did it as a part of the system. Big difference.

                      Brady is a solid QB, but he isn't in my top-5 all-time. He certainly isn't better than Peyton. I am not sure if he is even better than Big Ben. Put Ben behind the O-lines that Brady had been behind, and see what happens. He may win more titles and put up even better numbers.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post
                        It's both stats and rings. But I think Steve Young is the best QB of all time.
                        I have always wondered what a Steve Young after SF would have done for TB. I mean he sucked horrible in TB before going to SF but what would have happened there after he leaned everything he learned in SF.

                        Right now I do not even think Young is top 5 QB but I do wish I could have seen what he would do without all that talent and coaching around him.

                        I also really like he as a off the field player.

                        All we know is what we have seen and imo now that I think about it Young could possibly not make my top 10 list if I went back to the 70s and 60s.

                        Montana definately showed me allot when he went to KC but Elway took lesser teams then those KC teams to the Super Bowl. The fact Montana could not get them to that game shows me he is not as good as Elway.

                        Same with Steve Young. I doubt he could raise a teams level a play like Elway did.
                        Last edited by Hadez; 05-28-2012, 06:45 AM.
                        Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

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                        • #13
                          Just because a QB didn't get a ring doesn't mean they are not a great QB. If you are talking about the QB only you have to judge them on how they can carry a team no matter what they have to work with. This is why I think Elway is one of the best ever to play the game. He was able to carry his teams to multiple Superbowls when honestly they had no business even being there. It wasn't until later in his career that they gave him a good defense and a running game that balanced the team.

                          You look at QB's like Montana that had a ton of gifted players around him his entire career so even though he won more SB's I do not have him as high on my list. Bradshaw and Stabach would also fall in this same category with great teams around them that allowed them to win many SB's.

                          Marino was a great QB because they won inspite of the teams he played on. Fran Tarkington won a lot of games but they never had that great team behind him.

                          There are a lot of great QB's in the past that never won a ring that did take their teams to that next level but never won a SB.

                          Getting a ring is great but I do not know one QB that has done it all by themselves.
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                          Samparnell - Adopted Coach & Mentor
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                          • #14
                            agree totally with you One Bad.

                            Fouts and Marino both deserve to be considered imo

                            Kelly is easier to consider but he deserves to be considered as well

                            It is why I would consider wins and count all types of "championships" like Division and Conf as well.

                            A qb does not play defense and imo Marino and Fouts do not have a ring because of their defenses for the most part.

                            The QB does not block, run and catch passes and imo Elway lost three super bowls because of all the greatest QBs in the talk Elway played with the worse offensive talent around him until his last 3-4 years as a QB.

                            It is also the coaching...and not just the head coach. Was watching the NFL Network show about our Super Bowl win vs GB and it is amazing how many coaches on that team have gone on to win playoff games as head coaches.

                            I do value getting a ring high but not near as high as the Dallas, Pitt and SF people who use it as the one all be all reason to put their players into the HoF
                            Last edited by Hadez; 05-28-2012, 07:45 AM.
                            Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

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                            • #15
                              I don't think Brady is really all that great. He's a great QB for coming out of the 5th-6th round or wherever he came from, but like many say, he is a system QB BIG TIME. He's had the greatest coach pretty much of all time to be with, and Belichick is an absolute genius despite the spygate scandal. When Brady went down in game 1 a few years ago and they put in Matt Cassel, a guy who hasn't played a game of football since High school he went 11-5, once Cassel goes to the Chiefs, he sucks. I believe the same thing with Brady, he's just getting all the spotlight for Belichicks incredible coaching and gameplanning. Also the Pats can always somehow grab multiple 1st round picks every year and somehow have lots of $$$ to grab decent players to fit the system, which hensforth makes Belichick the X factor behind the Patriots Success and Tom Brady.

                              The list of the greatest for me goes like this:

                              John Elway: Super Clutch, the best complete all around QB. Took many not so great teams and put them on his back to multiple superbowls.

                              Dan Marino: Held many records before the NFL turned into pass happy league. Super quick release, was always the reason for the Dolphins success. Just never had enough talent around him to take it to the house.

                              Peyton Manning: Same for the Dolphins, never surrounded really with help or talent of any kind. Defensively especially. Always turned a Mediocre team into a playoff caliber team with his play. Great Leader and on-field coach. Without Manning this past year look at what happened....

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