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  • Peyton&Eli_fan
    replied
    Things we don't know that would help:

    1) Whose car is it? It's important whether he knew there was a gun in the glove compartment or not.

    2) What was thrown at the car. Was it anything that could have caused bodily harm? (still not an excuse to brandish a gun, but could make it more understandable)

    3) Were there any physical threats made prior to them showing the guns (see same comment as above)

    Leave a comment:


  • Peyton&Eli_fan
    replied
    Vic Lombardi ‏@VicLombardi
    Other key questions to be answered in the Dumervil investigation: a gun found in the glove. Who did the car belong to?
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    Leave a comment:


  • BroncoSexyDaddy
    replied
    Not that Doom is a police officer.But what would happen if she threw at a police officer,would he draw a gun? Just wondering!

    Leave a comment:


  • Peyton&Eli_fan
    replied
    Originally posted by ramanboy33 View Post
    What other posters have been saying about the right to defend your vehicle under Florida law is incorrect. That came from a poster (EddieMac) who was quoting an article about the extension of Florida's castle doctrine. He quoted it out of context. The law basically considers your car, when you're in it, to be your home and allows for one to use up to deadly force if their car is intruded while they are in it. Here's the actual text of the Florida law:


    776.013 Home protection; use of deadly force; presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm:

    (1) A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if:

    (a) The person against whom the defensive force was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered, a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against that person’s will from the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle; and
    (b) The person who uses defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred.


    This doesn't seem to even remotely apply to this incident.
    exactly - it's just saying that car invasion is the same as home invasion. Defending your property doesn't mean you can use or threaten violence if someone hurts your property.

    Leave a comment:


  • Peyton&Eli_fan
    replied
    Vic Lombardi ‏@VicLombardi
    There's also the matter of a third person arrested, which did not show up on police report. Who is that third person?
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  • Peyton&Eli_fan
    replied
    Originally posted by Broncos2024 View Post
    He was in his car when it was attacked so without having significant law experience you can't say if he's allowed to go out of that to defend his property.
    Having someone throw something at your car is not the same as someone trying to enter your car while you are in it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Broncos2024
    replied
    Originally posted by ramanboy33 View Post
    What other posters have been saying about the right to defend your vehicle under Florida law is incorrect. That came from a poster (EddieMac) who was quoting an article about the extension of Florida's castle doctrine. He quoted it out of context. The law basically considers your car, when you're in it, to be your home and allows for one to use up to deadly force if their car is intruded while they are in it. Here's the actual text of the Florida law:


    776.013 Home protection; use of deadly force; presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm:

    (1) A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if:

    (a) The person against whom the defensive force was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered, a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against that person’s will from the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle; and
    (b) The person who uses defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and
    forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred.


    This doesn't seem to even remotely apply to this incident.
    He was in his car when it was attacked so without having significant law experience you can't say if he's allowed to go out of that to defend his property. The whole thing doesn't matter because no defensive force was used.

    Leave a comment:


  • ramanboy33
    replied
    Originally posted by MajorFriend View Post
    This is exactly what I was trying to say. He may have the right to defend his property under Florida law, but I'm sure that was possible without exiting the vehicle and brandishing a gun.
    What other posters have been saying about the right to defend your vehicle under Florida law is incorrect. That came from a poster (EddieMac) who was quoting an article about the extension of Florida's castle doctrine. He quoted it out of context. The law basically considers your car, when you're in it, to be your home and allows for one to use up to deadly force if their car is intruded while they are in it. Here's the actual text of the Florida law:


    776.013 Home protection; use of deadly force; presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm:

    (1) A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if:

    (a) The person against whom the defensive force was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered, a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against that person’s will from the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle; and
    (b) The person who uses defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred.


    This doesn't seem to even remotely apply to this incident.
    Last edited by ramanboy33; 07-16-2012, 03:53 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Remedy
    replied
    Originally posted by DaFace View Post
    Eh, full disclosure, I'm a frequent poster (and former admin) of a Chiefs site. I live in Denver, so I follow Broncos news pretty closely. I created an account a long time ago, but only drop by on rare occasions. I just find stuff like this fascinating, so I dropped by to see what the discussion was like around here.
    we all can't be perfect hahahaha..... I just found it/find it funny when you have someone with a older join date with so few posts all of a sudden come alive.

    good stuff either way sir(or mam)

    Leave a comment:


  • MajorFriend
    replied
    Originally posted by ramanboy33 View Post
    Nobody's pretending the "victims" didn't have anything to do with the incident. The whole thing seemingly started with some idiot women cutting Dumervil off. Horns then blared, insults were hurled - I'd bet dollars to donuts her husband was mouthing off big time to Dumervil and his buddies. I have little doubt the Victoria Secret witness is correct when she says the women threw something at Dumervil's car.

    This here is pure speculation on my part, but she probably threw some handy piece of trash (a McDonald's cup or something). But I don't care if she threw a car seat with her kid in it causing a huge dent to Dumervil's Range Rover. That is no legal or moral justification to then get out of your car, advance upon her, and threaten her with a brandished gun. That's not the prevention of an assault or defense of property - it's an assault against her.

    How far do you see his "rights" in that regard extending? After brandishing his gun, could he have drawn it and shot her through her car window?
    This is exactly what I was trying to say. He may have the right to defend his property under Florida law, but I'm sure that was possible without exiting the vehicle and brandishing a gun.

    Leave a comment:


  • MajorFriend
    replied
    Originally posted by DaFace View Post
    You guys are confusing all the stand your ground stuff pretty badly here. It only applies in the case of someone threatening someone's life. To make it clearer, if I came at your car with a can of spray paint and violently sprayed paint all over the place, there are no circumstances under which you could pull a gun and be in the clear.

    If I came at your car with a baseball bat, you might have an argument, but again, it has to do with fearing for one's life.

    Unless whatever they threw was something potentially deadly, stand your ground has absolutely nothing to do with this.
    This is true in Colorado, but I'm not sure how Florida's law reads.

    In any case it doesn't matter if what the witnesses are saying his true. He was neither defending his life nor his property. If he had stayed in his car and she had approached him that might be a different story depending on the specifics of Florida's law, and the actions of the woman approaching his car (i.e. was she carrying a weapon).

    Leave a comment:


  • DaFace
    replied
    Originally posted by Remedy View Post
    Aye... I was going to say something a long those lines. good stuff sir.


    Not related whatsoever but 10 posts in 6 years and you made like 7 of them today. impressive. haha
    Eh, full disclosure, I'm a frequent poster (and former admin) of a Chiefs site. I live in Denver, so I follow Broncos news pretty closely. I created an account a long time ago, but only drop by on rare occasions. I just find stuff like this fascinating, so I dropped by to see what the discussion was like around here.
    Last edited by DaFace; 07-16-2012, 03:35 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • ramanboy33
    replied
    Originally posted by MH Stampede View Post
    What is threatening or not, is a very subjective thing. What isn't threatening to me, might be to you.

    Now dont get me wrong here, Elvis getting out of his vehicle was stupid, as was lying to the cop.

    But lets not pretend that the "victims" here had absolutely nothing to do with how this incident played out.
    Nobody's pretending the "victims" didn't have anything to do with the incident. The whole thing seemingly started with some idiot women cutting Dumervil off. Horns then blared, insults were hurled - I'd bet dollars to donuts her husband was mouthing off big time to Dumervil and his buddies. I have little doubt the Victoria Secret witness is correct when she says the women threw something at Dumervil's car.

    This here is pure speculation on my part, but she probably threw some handy piece of trash (a McDonald's cup or something). But I don't care if she threw a car seat with her kid in it causing a huge dent to Dumervil's Range Rover. That is no legal or moral justification to then get out of your car, advance upon her, and threaten her with a brandished gun. That's not the prevention of an assault or defense of property - it's an assault against her.

    How far do you see his "rights" in that regard extending? After brandishing his gun, could he have drawn it and shot her through her car window?
    Last edited by ramanboy33; 07-16-2012, 03:34 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Remedy
    replied
    Originally posted by DaFace View Post
    You guys are confusing all the stand your ground stuff pretty badly here. It only applies in the case of someone threatening someone's life. To make it clearer, if I came at your car with a can of spray paint and violently sprayed paint all over the place, there are no circumstances under which you could pull a gun and be in the clear.

    If I came at your car with a baseball bat, you might have an argument, but again, it has to do with fearing for one's life.

    Unless whatever they threw was something potentially deadly, stand your ground has absolutely nothing to do with this.
    Aye... I was going to say something a long those lines. good stuff sir.


    Not related whatsoever but 10 posts in 6 years and you made like 7 of them today. impressive. haha

    Leave a comment:


  • Orange Pants
    replied
    Originally posted by EddieMac View Post
    Just a little fuel to this fire. This a a portion of a 2005 article when the castle doctrine was signed into law in Florida:



    It appears the defence of ones vehicle is covered by that law. Now we wait and see if this is applicable in this case.
    So this means that Doom is innocent, as long as he can prove that his car was in danger. Shouldn't be too difficult for Harvey.

    Leave a comment:

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