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  • johnlimburg
    replied
    Originally posted by olgrouch View Post
    I agree with most of your post, having a little trouble w/ only keeping 3 true dt's on the roster though.
    Originally posted by Atwnbroncfan View Post
    Your insane if you think we will only keep 3 DTs. Versatile or not. None of the DEs have the size. Teams would be able to rush for 300 plus a game on us.
    Derek Wolfe according to Denver Broncos.com is heavier then Vickerson and Unrein. That isn't right just as it isn't right Malik Jackson is only 270. I think both are plenty big enough to play inside. Especially Wolfe. And yes it probably wont happen but if Beal plays well again I would prefer to keep him around and let Bannan or Unrein leave. And in case of an injury you could call upon anyone of Unrein, Bannan or Siliga because they probably wont get jobs anywhere else either.

    And when you look at it our nickel defense more then likely will feature no true defensive tackles. Robert Ayers and Derek Wolfe will more then likely play in the middle. So the snap rotation will be pretty spread out for the 3 inside guys anyway in my situation. And you would get to keep Beal and Jackson. Which is important in my opinion.

    Leave a comment:


  • Denver Mike
    replied
    Originally posted by JBBronco1 View Post
    Dave's vids are entertaining, and I like them, but I don't see Elway playing for the Colts.

    I see him playing baseball for a year, and then going back into the 1984 draft, where he is drafted #1 overall by Cincinnati(They got Tampa's pick in a trade for Jack Thompson). Elway probably goes on to lead the Bengals to three or four SB's over the next 16 years, and a few SB titles.

    As for Denver, I can see them staying with DeBerg because Reeves liked him. Also, Mark Herrmann may have gotten a shot at the job as well(I have a copy of the 1981 Viking-Bronco MNF game, and the announcers said that Reeves liked Herrmann a lot, and that he was going to be the future).

    Denver may have stayed in contention in the 80's, but they don't get to the SB until they draft Brett Favre in 1991 and sign Reggie White as a FA. Favre leads Denver to five SB's in the 90's and OO's. Dan Reeves stays in Denver all his career, and retires in 2004.

    Wow.. that must be some rockin' herbs.

    Leave a comment:


  • dukes88
    replied
    Originally posted by Hadez View Post
    From what I understand Wolfe is real good one vs one on pass rushing. They planned on using him early downs as DE and later passing downs as DT.

    I do not think this changed because of hunter injury. Only thing that changes is some snaps will now be up for grab.

    Does Wolfe get em? Ayers? Someone else?

    My guess is the coaches will let the players compete for the snaps
    I agree that Wolfe is built to play all 3 downs, even more so than Ayers. He will play the edge on early downs and will apply pressure without getting run over in the process. Ayers has done that well over the past couple years. The issue has been on 3rd down - Wolfe is versatile to play at any position on the line and Doom/Miller can help as they press the QB. Doom cannot play all 3 downs (or at least should not). We need to rotate these guys better and if we can stay healthy (minus one already) we have a really versatile group to rotate out there - just like the 2-time Super Bowl Champs do... it really does work. Wolfe can play the JPP role for us. The combine numbers for these two 6'5" guys are not that far off - Wolfe actually showed more strength and athleticism, was 25 pounds heavier (295 to JPP at 270). I know I may be reaching, JPP is a true difference maker already and may have a higher ceiling. But, you have to like Wolfe's size and ability already.

    Leave a comment:


  • JBBronco1
    replied
    Dave's vids are entertaining, and I like them, but I don't see Elway playing for the Colts.

    I see him playing baseball for a year, and then going back into the 1984 draft, where he is drafted #1 overall by Cincinnati(They got Tampa's pick in a trade for Jack Thompson). Elway probably goes on to lead the Bengals to three or four SB's over the next 16 years, and a few SB titles.

    As for Denver, I can see them staying with DeBerg because Reeves liked him. Also, Mark Herrmann may have gotten a shot at the job as well(I have a copy of the 1981 Viking-Bronco MNF game, and the announcers said that Reeves liked Herrmann a lot, and that he was going to be the future).

    Denver may have stayed in contention in the 80's, but they don't get to the SB until they draft Brett Favre in 1991 and sign Reggie White as a FA. Favre leads Denver to five SB's in the 90's and OO's. Dan Reeves stays in Denver all his career, and retires in 2004.

    Leave a comment:


  • crash123go
    replied
    Originally posted by Letswinplz77 View Post
    I have a question about our D-line and Wolfe. Even before Hunter went down, Wolfe was talked about and listed as a Defensive End. My question is why? What does he bring on the edge that is an improvement over Ayers, Beal or Jackson? AND, is he not better inside than Bannon, Unrein or Vickerson?

    I understand versatility, but I've also thought you use a player where he plays best. Is the coaching staff actually saying that Wolfe is a better End than Tackle. ANd more than that, are they saying he's a better End than Ayers and Beal? Just not sure what criteria they are using here, so anyone who knows how they've come to this point, feel free to clue me in. Thanks.
    He was playing as a starter as a DE in our 3-4 packages and was playing DE in our heavy package

    Leave a comment:


  • BluenOrnge4Life
    replied
    The simple answer is it's about putting your best lineup out there. Doom, Bannan, Ty Warren, & Wolfe are probably better than Doom, Ty Warren, Wolfe, and Ayers. Wolfe is a pass rusher and it's best to have him out there. You can never have enough pass rushers out there... and we might have a nice triple threat with VON, Doom, and Wolfe all on the field at the same time.

    Also, it's still early in the preseason so this might get tweaked before we're playing a meaningful game.
    Last edited by BluenOrnge4Life; 08-17-2012, 09:16 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Atwnbroncfan
    replied
    Originally posted by johnlimburg View Post
    It looks like we will have a very nice, versatile rotation all along the defensive line this season. Hunter will probably go to IR and with the deep young talent there is at Defensive End then having the guys who can kick inside are great to have. And everyone of our Defensive Ends exept for Dumervil can do that. They are all big bodies who could kick inside if asked to.

    I think regardless of what the depth chart says they both will be playing and playing a lot. With defensive lineman starting isn't an important stat. The amount of snaps they play is what matters.

    I think with this versatility we will be able to keep Beal because we can afford to cut one of the defensive tackles. My prediction is Justin Bannan or Mitch Unrein gets cut and the defensive line looks like this on the depth chart:

    - Warren
    - Vickerson
    - Unrein/Bannan

    - Dumervil
    - Ayers
    - Wolfe
    - Jackson
    - Beal


    And if I could guess what the criteria is for whole plays more. I would guess that it will come down to run defense. Why ? Because both more then likely wont offer much edge rush. So I think who ever can defend the run the best will get more snaps.

    And I am also sure that Ayers and Wolfe will be playing together a lot this year. Them two guys will probably be in the game both inside at times with Dumervil and Miller on the ends. And then we will also see a combination with one of them at end and one inside.
    Your insane if you think we will only keep 3 DTs. Versatile or not. None of the DEs have the size. Teams would be able to rush for 300 plus a game on us.

    Leave a comment:


  • jonathanrivers
    replied
    Originally posted by Letswinplz77 View Post
    I have a question about our D-line and Wolfe. Even before Hunter went down, Wolfe was talked about and listed as a Defensive End. My question is why? What does he bring on the edge that is an improvement over Ayers, Beal or Jackson? AND, is he not better inside than Bannon, Unrein or Vickerson?

    I understand versatility, but I've also thought you use a player where he plays best. Is the coaching staff actually saying that Wolfe is a better End than Tackle. ANd more than that, are they saying he's a better End than Ayers and Beal? Just not sure what criteria they are using here, so anyone who knows how they've come to this point, feel free to clue me in. Thanks.
    The other guys in this thread have it right. I'll elaborate a bit.

    On running downs, a big, strong disruptive presence like Wolfe is more valuable at end than he is at DT. Like gl47 said, it would be an easy assignment to double down a C/G on Wolfe --- because he would be the most disruptive threat and the most likely to get penetration. On the end, the offense can't double him up as easily. On sure running downs, you could also think about having Ayers --- a pretty good run stopper ---and Wolfe on the field at end at the same time. A 4 down line of Ayers, Warren, Bannan and Wolfe would be MUCH MORE strong at the point of attack than a line of Dumervil, Warren, Wolfe, Ayers...if that makes sense?

    On passing downs, Wolfe can play inside because there's less of a chance the O-line can double team him with Von and Dumervil coming off the edges. You could see an overshifted odd front with 3 down lineman...Dumervil, Wolfe/Ayers, and Warren...with Von standing up at the line on the end opposite Doom...this is the look we gave on many pass downs last year...basically a 3-3-5 that looks like a 4-2-5 due to Von's alignment. The advantage here is that Wolfe can give you that push/disruption in the middle that Marcus Thomas and Ryan McBean could not last year.

    Sorry for the longwindedness. But you essentially give your defense a matchup advantage when you move a versatile guy in different situations like we plan on doing. With the way we mix and match Von and Doom all over the field...opposing D coordinators are going to have one more headache to deal with a guy like Wolfe thrown in the mix.

    Leave a comment:


  • olgrouch
    replied
    Originally posted by johnlimburg View Post
    It looks like we will have a very nice, versatile rotation all along the defensive line this season. Hunter will probably go to IR and with the deep young talent there is at Defensive End then having the guys who can kick inside are great to have. And everyone of our Defensive Ends exept for Dumervil can do that. They are all big bodies who could kick inside if asked to.

    I think regardless of what the depth chart says they both will be playing and playing a lot. With defensive lineman starting isn't an important stat. The amount of snaps they play is what matters.

    I think with this versatility we will be able to keep Beal because we can afford to cut one of the defensive tackles. My prediction is Justin Bannan or Mitch Unrein gets cut and the defensive line looks like this on the depth chart:

    - Warren
    - Vickerson
    - Unrein/Bannan

    - Dumervil
    - Ayers
    - Wolfe
    - Jackson
    - Beal


    And if I could guess what the criteria is for whole plays more. I would guess that it will come down to run defense. Why ? Because both more then likely wont offer much edge rush. So I think who ever can defend the run the best will get more snaps.

    And I am also sure that Ayers and Wolfe will be playing together a lot this year. Them two guys will probably be in the game both inside at times with Dumervil and Miller on the ends. And then we will also see a combination with one of them at end and one inside.
    I agree with most of your post, having a little trouble w/ only keeping 3 true dt's on the roster though.

    Leave a comment:


  • getlynched47
    replied
    Think of Derek Wolfe as our new Trevor Pryce (versatility). He can play up and down all over the defensive line because he has power, technique, tenacity, and when it comes to rushing the passer he is "slippery" (as coaches like to call him).

    At first I thought that Derek Wolfe was miscast as a defensive end in the 4-3, but a lot of 4-3 teams have been effective at employing big strongside defensive ends.

    I'd say he is starting at DE over Robert Ayers and Jeremy Beal because not only can he stop the run by overpowering the OT, but he can rush the passer. For a big guy, he's a very balanced defensive lineman.

    I just think there's more one-on-one opportunities for Wolfe at DE instead of putting him at DT and having the opposing offense double-team him with a guard and a center.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hadez
    replied
    From what I understand Wolfe is real good one vs one on pass rushing. They planned on using him early downs as DE and later passing downs as DT.

    I do not think this changed because of hunter injury. Only thing that changes is some snaps will now be up for grab.

    Does Wolfe get em? Ayers? Someone else?

    My guess is the coaches will let the players compete for the snaps

    Leave a comment:


  • Denver Mike
    replied
    I was hoping he'd go into real detail. Theres just no way we'd have Orton..

    No Superbowls, means Shanny wouldn't have remained HC, meaning we wouldn't have drafted Cutler, meaning we wouldn't have traded him to Chicago..

    The coach at the time probably would have went with a "big name" in that draft screwing us with Vince Young or Matt Leinart

    Leave a comment:


  • johnlimburg
    replied
    Originally posted by Letswinplz77 View Post
    I have a question about our D-line and Wolfe. Even before Hunter went down, Wolfe was talked about and listed as a Defensive End. My question is why? What does he bring on the edge that is an improvement over Ayers, Beal or Jackson? AND, is he not better inside than Bannon, Unrein or Vickerson?

    I understand versatility, but I've also thought you use a player where he plays best. Is the coaching staff actually saying that Wolfe is a better End than Tackle. ANd more than that, are they saying he's a better End than Ayers and Beal? Just not sure what criteria they are using here, so anyone who knows how they've come to this point, feel free to clue me in. Thanks.
    It looks like we will have a very nice, versatile rotation all along the defensive line this season. Hunter will probably go to IR and with the deep young talent there is at Defensive End then having the guys who can kick inside are great to have. And everyone of our Defensive Ends exept for Dumervil can do that. They are all big bodies who could kick inside if asked to.

    I think regardless of what the depth chart says they both will be playing and playing a lot. With defensive lineman starting isn't an important stat. The amount of snaps they play is what matters.

    I think with this versatility we will be able to keep Beal because we can afford to cut one of the defensive tackles. My prediction is Justin Bannan or Mitch Unrein gets cut and the defensive line looks like this on the depth chart:

    - Warren
    - Vickerson
    - Unrein/Bannan

    - Dumervil
    - Ayers
    - Wolfe
    - Jackson
    - Beal


    And if I could guess what the criteria is for whole plays more. I would guess that it will come down to run defense. Why ? Because both more then likely wont offer much edge rush. So I think who ever can defend the run the best will get more snaps.

    And I am also sure that Ayers and Wolfe will be playing together a lot this year. Them two guys will probably be in the game both inside at times with Dumervil and Miller on the ends. And then we will also see a combination with one of them at end and one inside.
    Last edited by johnlimburg; 08-17-2012, 06:04 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Letswinplz77
    replied
    D-Line confusion.

    I have a question about our D-line and Wolfe. Even before Hunter went down, Wolfe was talked about and listed as a Defensive End. My question is why? What does he bring on the edge that is an improvement over Ayers, Beal or Jackson? AND, is he not better inside than Bannon, Unrein or Vickerson?

    I understand versatility, but I've also thought you use a player where he plays best. Is the coaching staff actually saying that Wolfe is a better End than Tackle. ANd more than that, are they saying he's a better End than Ayers and Beal? Just not sure what criteria they are using here, so anyone who knows how they've come to this point, feel free to clue me in. Thanks.

    Leave a comment:


  • jetrazor74
    replied
    That was terrible, and didn't even make much sense.

    Dude sounds like a disgruntled Colts fan, to me.

    Leave a comment:

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