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  • The Minx
    replied
    Questions Concerning the Broncos-Bears Game

    I am still very new to the game of football. I am trying to learn the game by watching as many Broncos games as possible. I watched the first preseason game and I have some questions.

    1. The commentators for the game said before it started that Peyton Manning would be throwing Nolan Ryan balls. I looked up Nolan Ryan, but it seems he is a baseball player, not a football player. What am I missing?

    2. One commentator said, “Because of Peyton Manning, the game is now played at the line of scrimmage.” What did he mean?

    3. One commentator said the Bears were a Tampa 2 team. What is that?

    4. Josh McCown, one of the Bears quarterbacks, was penalized for a false start. The commentator said he was not used to the snap count and voice inflection. What does that mean?

    5. The referees are in a labor dispute, so the games are being officiated by replacement referees. Is that going to be a problem for this season? If yes, how will it affect the games?

    6. One of the commentators talked about new Broncos defensive lineman Derek Wolfe and said that John Fox said, “He has the perfect disposition for a defensive lineman. You don't want your enforcer to be a Champ Bailey cornerback.” What does that mean?

    7. Is there any rhyme or reason to how the preseason games are scheduled?

    Any help I receive is most appreciated. Thank you.

    Joyfully,
    The Minx

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  • samparnell
    replied
    Jackson may make the team because he can play inside and outside on the DL. As far as clarity of who makes the roster, who gets cut and who goes to PS, it is lacking for me. I'll end up being surprised.
    Last edited by samparnell; 08-12-2012, 01:37 PM.

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  • MarshallMoss
    replied
    As for Malik Jackson he's a rookie and is clearly heading for the practice squad. As a 5th round DE it's highly unlikely that any team would claim him off waivers.

    As for going with 2 QBs, lots of fans would love it. But John Fox would hate it.

    He's notorious for going with aging veterans of dubious value over promising younger players. Having a pure rookie as his backup QB if Manning goes down for even 1 game would probably give him sleepless nights. No matter how good Osweiler looks in the pre-season Hanie is going to make the team and Weber will either be cut or put on the PS.

    Having Weber on the PS doesn't help much if Manning is hurt because he doesn't have much more experience than Osweiler and Fox can't rely on him to be dependable in a crisis where he needs to win a couple of games and Manning is hurt for 2 weeks.
    Hey Cugel...I think my point got lost in this...it tends to happen when I decide to get active on these forums once every few months and just type like crazy

    The overall point - Is Hanie (as a veteran) better than what is in the open market for veteran QB's? (whether free agents or be had for cheap via trade) ...Secondly, if we released Hanie, how likely is it that another team would pick him up? If it is not very high we can always bring him back if need be.

    I understand Fox loves veterans...but Jake Delhomme was his boy because of his leadership skills and fire that he transferred to the rest of the team that was so much more important than an aging skillset. Does Hanie have that in him? I don't know...if he does it could be what keeps him here. I will tell you one thing, I am impressed by Osweillers command and leadership early on...he is not talking or walking around like a typical rookie.

    As for Malik...I was just throwing a bunch of names out there...but I still would be pretty sick if we lost Malik because we kept Hanie
    Last edited by MarshallMoss; 08-12-2012, 01:38 PM.

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  • Cugel
    replied
    Originally posted by MarshallMoss View Post
    I think we only go with two QB's - Manning and Os - the reasoning is there are two many good players to try and squeeze on this 53 man roster and there are plenty of capable QB's out on the free market or could be had for cheap that are equal/better than Hanie if Manning got hurt. We will try and squeeze Weber on our PS again to give us better depth. Personally, I will be pretty sick to my stomach if Hanie takes a roster spot away from someone like a Moreno, Odom, Willis or Malik.

    Let's put it this way...do you think if we dumped Hanie any team would even pick him up? There is a good chance no. So we could just bring him back if needed...if we felt he was the best option available...ugggghhh!
    As for Malik Jackson he's a rookie and is clearly heading for the practice squad. As a 5th round DE it's highly unlikely that any team would claim him off waivers.

    As for going with 2 QBs, lots of fans would love it. But John Fox would hate it.

    He's notorious for going with aging veterans of dubious value over promising younger players. Having a pure rookie as his backup QB if Manning goes down for even 1 game would probably give him sleepless nights. No matter how good Osweiler looks in the pre-season Hanie is going to make the team and Weber will either be cut or put on the PS.

    Having Weber on the PS doesn't help much if Manning is hurt because he doesn't have much more experience than Osweiler and Fox can't rely on him to be dependable in a crisis where he needs to win a couple of games and Manning is hurt for 2 weeks.
    Last edited by Cugel; 08-12-2012, 01:00 PM.

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  • MarshallMoss
    replied
    You may be right, but consider this. It doesn't matter if Weber or even Osweiler is better than Hanie. Fox is going with Hanie because he's the veteran. Remember "Orton gives us the best chance to win now?" Get used to hearing it again (about Hanie) if Manning is hurt.

    Next, Hanie would have needed to win three games so the Bears would finish with a 10-6 record for them to make the playoffs. There was never a chance of that.

    Also, if the Bears somehow landed in the playoffs with Caleb Hanie what remote chance do you think they would have had as the #6 seed? None whatever!

    This illustrates the essential point does it not?

    Your backup QB might fill in for a couple of games and if you're lucky you might win one. But, you can't expect more than that.

    It would have been utterly pointless for the Bears to make the playoffs. All it would have done is give them a worse draft pick.

    Same thing would be true if Manning gets hurt the way Cutler did last year.

    Then it's Osweiler time!
    I think we only go with two QB's - Manning and Os - the reasoning is there are two many good players to try and squeeze on this 53 man roster and there are plenty of capable QB's out on the free market or could be had for cheap that are equal/better than Hanie if Manning got hurt. We will try and squeeze Weber on our PS again to give us better depth. Personally, I will be pretty sick to my stomach if Hanie takes a roster spot away from someone like a Moreno, Odom, Willis or Malik.

    Let's put it this way...do you think if we dumped Hanie any team would even pick him up? There is a good chance no. So we could just bring him back if needed...if we felt he was the best option available...ugggghhh!

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  • uncoalum
    replied
    I think we might bring in another veteran QB to back up Manning and both Hanie and Weber will be gone.

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  • MarshallMoss
    replied
    I agree with you on this Rod, but I see things just a tad bit different. When I first heard that we re-signed Mays to a 3yr $12mil deal, I was like "There goes Irving chances" but then when I saw the details, I kind of had a change of heart about it. Mays signed a 3yr $12 mil contract with $4.5 guaranteed. The good thing is the $4mil that is guaranteed it's all in the first year, the other $500.000 is guaranteed next year. So the way I see it, it was a contract that benefited both Mays and the Broncos.

    If Mays plays really well, he got some stability for 3yrs, if Irving outplay Mays (next year) then we can cut Mays without much of a cap hit. I don't know if you followed Irving thoughout his college career, but he's naturally an OLB, he only played MLB his Senior year at NC State. I agree with your opinion about Woodyard and Trevathan having more mobility, but Irving is far and beyond a better blitzer than Woodyard. I'm a huge Woodyard fan, but his ability to blitz has always been a issue with me.

    Nate look like he's put on some weight to play Mike, because i've never seen him that heavy. So I believe that has contributed to his lack of speed. Watching him play at NC State, he definately had some wheels on him. Either way, whether it's Mike or Will, I think he'll have a chance to start, if not this year, definately next.
    That's why I love Trevathon...he is Woodyard but with the knack to blitz and get skinny in the backfield.

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  • broncolee
    replied
    Maybe they should try Irving at WLB.

    If he continues to play as well as he did in the first game, they should give him a chance to be one of the three starting linebackers.

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  • JayJack
    replied
    Originally posted by Roddoliver View Post
    In my opinion, no one can take the MLB job from Joe Mays because of the money. He is being paid as the starting MLB, and I think money has already decided the issue. There will be no competition there. I don't believe Irving's performance will matter, even if he keeps making a lot of tackles and tackles for loss. I doubt the coaches will say "hmm he's looking really instinctive and playing fast, maybe we should put him with the starters." I don't see it happening. Apparently, Irving does not shine in practice, but he can make plays during a real game. He will be on the final roster, and he will be one of the 2nd team LBs. He can't play SLB because Von Miller is already there.

    Maybe Irving can compete for the WLB job, but Woodyard and Trevathan offer more mobility. Irving's size and instincts scream MLB to me, but Joe Mays is there with a nice salary. Only injury or a disastrous regular season will make Joe Mays lose his job. I can be wrong, but that's how I see the situation. Money will impact the competition, just like Stokley's relationship with Peyton Manning will impact the competition at WR.
    I agree with you on this Rod, but I see things just a tad bit different. When I first heard that we re-signed Mays to a 3yr $12mil deal, I was like "There goes Irving chances" but then when I saw the details, I kind of had a change of heart about it. Mays signed a 3yr $12 mil contract with $4.5 guaranteed. The good thing is the $4mil that is guaranteed it's all in the first year, the other $500.000 is guaranteed next year. So the way I see it, it was a contract that benefited both Mays and the Broncos.

    If Mays plays really well, he got some stability for 3yrs, if Irving outplay Mays (next year) then we can cut Mays without much of a cap hit. I don't know if you followed Irving thoughout his college career, but he's naturally an OLB, he only played MLB his Senior year at NC State. I agree with your opinion about Woodyard and Trevathan having more mobility, but Irving is far and beyond a better blitzer than Woodyard. I'm a huge Woodyard fan, but his ability to blitz has always been a issue with me.

    Nate look like he's put on some weight to play Mike, because i've never seen him that heavy. So I believe that has contributed to his lack of speed. Watching him play at NC State, he definately had some wheels on him. Either way, whether it's Mike or Will, I think he'll have a chance to start, if not this year, definately next.
    Last edited by JayJack; 08-12-2012, 11:15 AM.

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  • Cugel
    replied
    Originally posted by broncolassiter View Post
    Hanie was just pretty bad last season for the Bears, how much can we really expect him to improve in just one off-season? One can say all they want about the situation he was in last year, but how much of it can you blame on the lack of weapons when Cutlar was playoff bound with those weapons? All Hanie had to do is just hold things down for 4 games and the Bears would have made the post season. Hanie could not even win one game and as much as I hate to say it, we gave him the perfect opportunity to get one win! You can bring up the fumble all you want, but the fact is had Hanie done better in the first place they would have never needed the OT. So no I do not feel comfortable with Hanie as our backup.
    You may be right, but consider this. It doesn't matter if Weber or even Osweiler is better than Hanie. Fox is going with Hanie because he's the veteran. Remember "Orton gives us the best chance to win now?" Get used to hearing it again (about Hanie) if Manning is hurt.

    Next, Hanie would have needed to win three games so the Bears would finish with a 10-6 record for them to make the playoffs. There was never a chance of that.

    Also, if the Bears somehow landed in the playoffs with Caleb Hanie what remote chance do you think they would have had as the #6 seed? None whatever!

    This illustrates the essential point does it not?

    Your backup QB might fill in for a couple of games and if you're lucky you might win one. But, you can't expect more than that.

    It would have been utterly pointless for the Bears to make the playoffs. All it would have done is give them a worse draft pick.

    Same thing would be true if Manning gets hurt the way Cutler did last year.

    Then it's Osweiler time!

    Leave a comment:


  • broncolassiter
    replied
    Hanie was just pretty bad last season for the Bears, how much can we really expect him to improve in just one off-season? One can say all they want about the situation he was in last year, but how much of it can you blame on the lack of weapons when Cutlar was playoff bound with those weapons? All Hanie had to do is just hold things down for 4 games and the Bears would have made the post season. Hanie could not even win one game and as much as I hate to say it, we gave him the perfect opportunity to get one win! You can bring up the fumble all you want, but the fact is had Hanie done better in the first place they would have never needed the OT. So no I do not feel comfortable with Hanie as our backup.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cugel
    replied
    Originally posted by kevlar441 View Post
    So far, my vote is clearly for Weber over Hanie and I will take that CP bet made earlier.

    We will see how it shakes out but I might even be willing to go this far.

    Manning
    OZ - Weber
    Hanie
    LOTS of fans want Weber over Hanie. They might even be right. However, there's ZERO chance of this. NONE whatever.

    Fox loves veterans and does NOT want to start an inexperience young developmental QB like Weber if Manning is hurt for a couple of games. He's notorious for starting aging veterans over promising young players. Just talk to the Carolina Fans. If Manning goes down for a couple of games Fox is going to stick with the veteran Hanie, even if he sucks.

    And the fans shouting for Weber or (more likely) Osweiler will move him not a whit.

    If Manning is lost for the entire season then the Broncos season is over anyway -- just like it was last year for the 7-4 Bears when Jay Cutler was hurt and the high-flying Houston Texans when they lost Matt Schaub.

    In that case they might as well just start Osweiler and get him some NFL experience. See what the kid can do.

    If he tanks, well, the Broncos weren't going to the playoffs without Peyton Manning anyway. And if he does good, that's a boost for the future. Win-win.
    Last edited by Cugel; 08-11-2012, 09:34 PM.

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  • Cugel
    replied
    Originally posted by rogue719 View Post
    We seem to have discussions like this every preseason. There were people just a couple of years ago who felt that Tom Brandstater had also outplayed the starters. Of course fans often forget that Oz and Weber were playing against the 3rd and 4th stringers, guys who aren't getting any reps and aren't that good to begin with and will probably be cut. Weber is doing his best to keep from getting cut.

    And just because some fans think if Weber goes on the PS he's as good as gone doesn't really make it so. If the coaching staff thought Weber was all that and a bag of chips, he would likely be second string by now, not fourth. He's trying to work his way up, but he's also been here for a full year, unlike the other three QB's on the roster. He SHOULD look better than Hanie running plays he already knows well while Hanie is learning the offense and trying to settle in and be the second stringer.

    We have three more weeks before we will know for sure how things shake out with the QB's but during that time, I expect Hanie to get better and for all three backups to get plenty of game reps in the preseason. Then, we will see how other coaching staffs see our guys.
    There's been some suggestion among NFL analysts that if they try and put Weber on the PS he will be claimed by some other team. However there are two things to consider.

    #1 -- A lot depends on the rest of the pre-season. Will he have a great pre-season or will he struggle?

    #2 -- A team that claims Weber will have to put him on the 53 man roster right before the season. That team would REALLY have to love Weber to do that. They'd be cutting a player who went all through camp and the pre-season to get a QB who is not really capable of starting and doesn't have much experience.

    If they really thought he was a great developmental prospect they might do it, but is Weber really that good?

    I doubt it. I think he'll clear waivers and if he doesn't? Oh, well.

    The Broncos really are set at QB with Manning and Osweiler is the future QB. If Manning goes down they need an experienced QB and that's going to be Hannie (God help us).

    They might like Weber but he clearly does not have a future on this team. Can any of you imagine him ever beating out Osweiler when Elway loves Osweiler and invested a 2nd round draft pick in him? No and NO.

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  • EL ROCKSTEADY
    replied
    Originally posted by soloking View Post
    Just had a baby, probably didn't sleep for 2 days.
    Yes, He wanted to play but the coack told him to sit. Cutler just had a baby and it rained a whole bunch before the game.

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  • theMileHighGuy
    replied
    Sure, plenty of concerns. However none of them related to Peyton Manning.

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