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  • MarshallMoss
    replied
    http://www.nfl.com/draft/2011/profil...ngram?id=71337

    read that report of Ingram and I have no reason to think that if he is BACK from the ACL he has the talent to easily be the starting playmaker TE we have been missing since #84 retired... We have tried Wesley Dukes, Julius Thomas, Duke just like Thomas have the skillset but couldn't/can't stay healthy.

    Ingram is a FOOTBALL player (that happened to play on the Florida Basketball team) and if healthy could be the go to guy for Manning.
    Ummm...don't get me wrong I am pulling for him, but to want to give up on Julius Thomas (because of injuries as an argument) and go with Ingram is a little ridiculous. All Ingram does is get injured, and not minor ones. Ingram has injured the same ACL twice now and it has kept him out of football for almost 2 years. The first one was with Florida Gators and the second one with the Eagles. He is at best an average blocker that has shown character issues in the past...the biggest red flag being that he quit on the team and football.

    People change and I am interested to see how he progresses through camp...but to give up on Thomas after one year (who has scary loads of potential, and had a bad break to start his Nfl career) and ride the Ingram train (who couldn't make hardly any regular season games with two NFL teams) is jumping the gun a bit.

    Let's see how things pan out a bit before we throw Thomas to the curb. Comparing Thomas to Duke is not justified(not yet), and there is a reason why these basketball player athletes are so hyped up...they are unstoppable if they can figure it out...Graham, Gates, Gonzalez.
    Last edited by MarshallMoss; 08-14-2012, 02:26 PM.

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  • DENVER BRONCO56
    replied
    http://www.nfl.com/draft/2011/profil...ngram?id=71337

    read that report of Ingram and I have no reason to think that if he is BACK from the ACL he has the talent to easily be the starting playmaker TE we have been missing since #84 retired... We have tried Wesley Dukes, Julius Thomas, Duke just like Thomas have the skillset but couldn't/can't stay healthy.

    Ingram is a FOOTBALL player (that happened to play on the Florida Basketball team) and if healthy could be the go to guy for Manning.

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  • BroncoSexyDaddy
    replied
    Keep TE

    1.Tamme
    2. Dressen
    3. Ingram

    Release

    1.Thomas
    2. Virgil Green

    Leave a comment:


  • MarshallMoss
    replied
    Broncos TE Julius Thomas making an impact

    http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/nf...king-an-impact

    One of the loudest roars of Monday's Broncos practice came when TE Julius Thomas headed downfield on a post route, broke away from a defender and caught a well-placed, 40-yard pass from QB Brock Osweiler.

    This was what the Broncos hoped to see when they took a fourth-round draft flier last year on the former Portland State basketball star whose athleticism was as obvious as his football experience was scant. Thomas had played one season of football since his freshman year of high school, and his blocking and route-running needed refinement. But everything seemed on track as a rookie until he suffered an ankle injury last September against the Bengals -- an injury that simply wouldn't heal.

    "Originally I figured it would be a couple of weeks. We tried that, and that didn't work," Thomas said. "It just been so long."

    He finally succumbed to the need for surgery in March, missed all of the offseason practices, and was slowly brought back to full-scale work. He's recently worked in full-contact, full-team periods -- which led to Monday's downfield reception.

    "It's just encouraging to be able to make the plays that your mind knows it can make, and now your body's starting to catch up to that level," Thomas said.

    But it's not all the way there. Thomas admits the ankle is still at "about 80 percent."

    "I definitely have a lot more strength still to build in that leg from the ankle all the way up to the hip," Thomas said. "But it's coming along. It feels better than it did at any point post-injury last year. So I'm encouraged."

    Barring injuries to starters Jacob Tamme and Joel Dreessen, Thomas should have time to heal -- and to continue refining his game. The two free-agent pickups are already entrenched, and with offensive tackle Chris Clark set to be the third tight end on short-yardage plays, the opportunities for Thomas to contribute could be few.

    "I'm just going to do what's expected of me and wait for my chance to get an opportunity," Thomas said.

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  • one_bad_55
    replied
    Originally posted by japfaff View Post
    This.....I like Thomas's potential......But we are crowded at the position...He should be IRed and we will see next season
    JT practiced today and I guess he had a big catch for a TD from OZ. Oz pump faked and launched one down the field and hit JT in stride for a TD. Del Rio got all over the D for biting on the pump fake.

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  • japfaff
    replied
    Originally posted by lvbronx View Post
    Julius Thomas is still hurt and was held out of the game. I see him being on IR or the practice squad.
    This.....I like Thomas's potential......But we are crowded at the position...He should be IRed and we will see next season

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  • luvdacolts67
    replied
    Im telling you, if you have a fantasy team, take Tamme

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  • Cugel
    replied
    Originally posted by coloradomedic View Post
    Thomas will have a hard time making the final roster. He didn't produce last season either. The only reason folks around here are so high on him is because Cecil Lammey made him sound like a hall of famer last season during camp. I think that the extra roster spot from carrying only 2 QB's on the roster goes to a CB/S who makes the team as a kick returner.... Either Squid or Leonhard.
    When the Broncos brought in Tammie and Dreesen that was the end for Thomas. I thought his drafting was going to fail when they took him. Ex-basketball players with minimal football experience.

    Forget his "potential." Everybody thinks they are finding the next Antonio Gates with some former basketball player and it never works out that way.

    Virgil Green and Ingram probably are the final two TEs if they keep 4.

    As for Syd'Quan he's toast unless the Broncos keep 6 CBs which they will not.

    #1 Champ
    #2 Porter
    #3 Florence
    #4 Harris
    #5 Bolden

    Leonhard will make the 53 man roster unless he can't come off the PUP. Given that he can't work out in the pre-season with the team due to injury they can't even evaluate him before the first week of the season.

    Given that, they wouldn't have bothered to sign him unless they intended to keep him sight unseen on the 53 man roster, based solely on his prior experience in the NFL. That means another safety has to be cut.

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  • simplistickhaos
    replied
    I think Tamme was really starting to come into his own in Indy before Manning got hurt while Clark was out for a few games. I have always liked watching him play. I am excited to see if our Broncos can have TE play that exceeds what we have seen for many years. JD is someone who will learn a lot from both Tamme and Manning.

    I am so excited talking about all positions again rather that just one like last season. Thank you Mr. Elway for giving us true orange football back!

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  • samparnell
    replied
    If McCoy intends to use tight formations often, the Broncos may carry four TEs on the roster. At the moment Dreessen appears the most well-rounded and Tamme one-dimensional. Ingram's play, Green's suspension, Thomas' slow development and Miller's lack of experience and injury muddy the water as to who the other tight end(s) will be be.

    Coaches want TEs to block and catch. Actually everyone on offense should block including WRs. Careful observation shows they do. Blocking is especially important for TEs because of where they line up. H-Back and FB aren't exactly the same position.

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  • MarshallMoss
    replied
    I dug up this article that was pretty good on our tight end situation without Ingram in the equation:

    http://www.milehighreport.com/2012/7...ill-alter-2012

    And no, it isn't Peyton Manning. While Manning will likely have the biggest impact on the Broncos 2012 season, another addition may alter the Broncos season greatly. These two players provide an immediate upgrade and will improve their units through skill and leadership. These are two veterans are proven and experienced, something we haven't had in a while. Now I talked about another key free agent signing a short time ago, and we'll continue this trend by looking at another player.

    I'm talking about tight end Joel Dreessen. Let me try and make the case for why we needed him and how he fixes our tight end situation.



    Why We Need Him:

    2010 and 2011 seasons were two of the worst in terms of tight end play for the Broncos in recent years. Even in 2009 the Broncos still had solid tight end play, but the past two seasons the Broncos struggled to find receiving tight ends. Part of that has to do with the scheme in 2010. Since pass catching tight ends aren't as key in McD's spread offense, that is why the Broncos carried three blocking tight ends and no real receiving tight ends. With the firing of Josh McDaniels, John Fox worked with Mike McCoy to try and work tight ends into the passing scheme more and brought in two veterans Daniel Fells and Dante Rosario as well as drafting two tight ends who have strong receiving ability in Julius Thomas and Virgil Green. They had a plan, but the problems with that plan came with it's execution. Both Fells and Rosario were players who had generally struggled on their previous teams and were never very productive as blockers or receivers. This misstep was the first mistake in the Broncos plan to alter their tight end scheme.

    The second came with the struggles of rookie tight end Julius Thomas. Like many fans and the media, I bought into the hype of Thomas based on his camp play without actually watching him in college. This overhyping lead to a severe let down once the pre-season games actually started, Thomas looked lost in protection and never displayed his speed or hands in receiving situations. Because of this he saw limited playing time as the season went on, only seeing 48 snaps the whole regular season.

    Virgil Green came in with different expectations, taken much later than Thomas, he wasn't seen as the long term answer at tight end. Green had established himself though for his blocking ability where he spend nearly 80% of his snaps. He was never the physical specimen or athlete that Thomas was, but he was able to work his way into the roster as a classic H-back who'd either stay at the tight end position or shift to the fullback spot if need be. Because of this he was able to get on the field for over five times the snaps of Thomas, 275 to be exact.

    But at the end of the season, the Broncos tight end situation was still a mess. Fells and Rosario were not brought back and questions still circled about Thomas. Green had proven himself as an H-back, but lacked the overall skillset to be a strong receiver. These questions caused the Broncos to go into free agency once again to try and solve their problem and this time, they got it right. Enter Jacob Tamme and Joel Dreessen. Now Tamme is a player who has risen rapidly over the past seasons with the injuries to Dallas Clark as well as his ability to be productive despite Manning going down. Tamme is largely a pure receiving tight end, and a solid one at that, but this article won't dwell on that too much, instead we're going to discuss the other tight end they brought in, Dreessen.

    What Dreessen Brings:

    Joel Dreessen brings what EFX thought they were getting with Fells, a guy who can both catch and block. The difference this time is Dreessen is proven, something Fells and Rosario weren't, despite what some believed. Now I know some of you may be asking, "How is Dreessen different?" Well that's my goal for this article.

    Pass and Run Blocking:

    An area that was important under McD had lost some importance last season. With the arrival of Peyton Manning, the return of tight ends who can block has returned. While I know the Broncos aren't looking for the pure blockers we had in 2010 like Dan Gronkowski and Richard Quinn, having pass blocking ability is vital, and luckily the Broncos picked up a tight end who can do just that.

    Now blocking is a tough thing to gauge, luckily there is a metric that can help us, Pass Blocking Efficiency (PBE). This looks at the number of pressures, hits and sacks the tight end allowed divided by the number of pass protection snaps played. This way we can see how often a player gives up a pressure. Now Joel Dreessen played 93 snaps in pass protection in 2011, just over 30% of his total snaps, and during that period he only allowed one sack and two pressures. Out of the max 100 PBE, Dreessen scored a 98.1, 7th best in the NFL.

    Now when it comes to run blocking, he's even better. When the runner was running on his side, he only allowed 6 tackles behind the line due to a mistake he made. That's out of 456 run blocking snaps, that's a failure rate of 1.3%, pretty good if you ask me. Actually with tight ends who had 300 or more run blocking snaps, he ranked 3rd.

    Pass Catching:

    Now Joel Dreessen will never be a Rob Gronkowski, but what he brings is reliability. Now last season our tight ends were note exactly what you'd call reliable in terms of not dropping the ball. Dreessen doesn't have this issue, over the past four years Dreessen has dropped four passes out of his 134 targets, that's a drop rate of less than 3%. He's also a much better red zone option than anyone the Broncos have had since Daniel Graham in 2008. Over the past three seasons he has 11 touchdowns, six of those came last season. Oh and did I mention only one fumble in that same time period. His large size and decent speed especially make him valuable in deep seam routes where he can exploit the defense's zone coverage, something that plays exactly into the strength of Manning's game. He also has a very good yards per reception with 12.4.

    In the end, Dreessen fits the scheme, has the size and speed to make plays and has a proven record of solid pass catching production. This is exactly what John Fox was looking for when he went after Fells and Rosario and now he has that player.

    Wrapping Up:

    Overall, Dreessen is a top tier blocker and reliable pass catcher. The kind of balance the Broncos haven't had in nearly a decade. Look for Tamme to be the primary receiving tight end. Dreessen won't top 700 yards, but 400-500 yards and 3-4 touchdowns is a reasonable expectation. Dreessen is an every down tight end who is mutli-purpose tool, which is what Manning loves.

    Now Joel Dreessen isn't a long term answer, he turns 30 this year, but he'll provide two to three good years while the Broncos staff evaluate what they have in Julius Thomas going forward. Similar to the addition of Mike Adams to the safety squad, the Broncos add an immediate starter who brings leadership, production and experience that has been lacking. He upgrades a squad with major question marks and provides a stop gap while the younger players prove if they can develop or not.
    Dreessen can play H-back amongst other roles if we get rid of Virgil.
    Not a good endorsment of Thomas here...be interesting to see how it all pans out.
    Last edited by MarshallMoss; 08-12-2012, 12:56 PM.

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  • samparnell
    replied
    Virgil Green was a good receiver in Chris Ault's Pistol Offense at Nevada. He did well at the Combine, but the knock on him was he couldn't block.

    In 2011, he was a great blocker for the Broncos, the best TE at blocking. He needs to recover his form receiving.

    Fox is committed to a rushing attack. Must have at least one Y/H who can block.

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  • MarshallMoss
    replied
    Julius Thomas is a second year player who only played one season of college ball at a small school.

    People need to stop acting as though it's a surprise that he hasn't shown much. If it weren't for Gonzales and Gates, Thomas would never have been drafted but teams are going to sometimes see if a basketball player can make the transition because they are hoping for the next Gonzales or Gates.

    Because of Virgil Green's suspension, Thomas will probably get for extra weeks to show improvement.

    Dreesen and Tamme probably have the top two tight end spots wrapped up.
    Agreed to some extent. The issue is that Thomas showed he was a dominant weapon last camp. He was the talk of camp till his injury. He presents a massive mismatch for opposing defenses. Any chance you have the possibility of having such a lethal weapon as a part of your offense, I think you make sacrifices. If Thomas came in and showed not much, but raw ability to this point, I would probably be with you...but he has shown in limited time the knack to run good routes with great speed and hands...with that great frame of his that will make him very hard to defend. I've watched too much of Gates and Gronk beating us, to the point where they are impossible to defend (unless we double team them) to settle with the average TE. Don't get me wrong, I like Tamme and Dressen...but I can't see Virgil or any of these guys ever striking fear in a defense as a single player...as a whole that's a different story

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  • JayJack
    replied
    Originally posted by MarshallMoss View Post
    If Ingram plays lights out for the remaining preseason, it could be a possibility. I think Thomas's ceiling is way too high to give up on, and as mentioned previously his skill value has become even higher to us with Peyton now leading our offense. I think Virgil will be the odd man out if Ingram keeps playing at a high level.
    I just can't see Green being the odd man out. He was great for us last year as a blocker and can offer us so much in the H-Back role. I think it would be criminal to let a suspension cause him to lose his roster spot. It's one thing if the suspension was because of a serious offense, but it was about his medication for his illness.

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  • broncolee
    replied
    Julius Thomas is a second year player who only played one season of college ball at a small school.

    People need to stop acting as though it's a surprise that he hasn't shown much. If it weren't for Gonzales and Gates, Thomas would never have been drafted but teams are going to sometimes see if a basketball player can make the transition because they are hoping for the next Gonzales or Gates.

    Because of Virgil Green's suspension, Thomas will probably get four extra weeks to show improvement.

    Dreesen and Tamme probably have the top two tight end spots wrapped up.
    Last edited by broncolee; 08-12-2012, 02:37 PM.

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