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Lance Ball and Jeremiah Johnson

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  • #16
    Originally posted by killacal View Post
    as someone else stated knowshon is ridiculed because of where he was drafted, if he were drafted in the 4th or lower it wouldnt be an issue and he probably wouldnt make the team because of his injury history and lack of balance. while his is really good at blitz pick up, he struggles with vision, injuries and balance. ball on the other hand wont wow u by any stretch of the imagination, he is a jack of all trades, master of none. jj on the other hand has that one thing u cant teach and thats speed. he has shown flashes of ability but his problem is consistency
    Calling Lance Ball a jack of all trades is overrating him. I'd say it's more along the lines of a 5 of all trades. Being a jack would imply he's a little good at everything. I honestly think it's a bit of a stretch just to call him average.

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    • #17
      To date, it has been Ball's ability on ST's that has secured his roster spot. As a RB, although he knows his assignment and generally does well enough in pass pro, he has no explosion, can't make anyone miss, goes down on first contact, and puts the ball on the ground.

      JJ is the much better and more natural runner but (because of his lack of size) is a liability as a pass protector and doesn't have a history of being a ST demon.

      For all of the desire of the FO to be a strong running team, we are very average in the RB department. ALL of the hope for the position is squarely pinned on Ronnie Hillman. If he doesn't come through, then Denver's hopes of success will completely depend on an unbalanced approach of being perfect in the passing game in order to prop up a milktoast running attack. If Hillman proves what I suspect he is capable of, then watch out...as the skills (or lack thereof) of Ball and JJ won't matter.

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      • #18
        There was a great coach's quote during one of the other preseason games this week (I think it was Jason Garrett, Head Coach for Dallas) and I'm paraphrasing; he said something like:

        I'm not going to field my 53 best players, I'm going to field my best 53 man roster.
        It's in this philosophy where KnoMo might find himself on the bubble. From arguments I've seen on these boards are some strong arguments that diminish KnoMo's value.

        I think it's important that we all think of this from the perspective of those who will make this decision. So what's likely to happen? Of course I have no idea really. I still find it hard to believe KnoMo will be cut based on what's been invested. At what cost though? The money's been paid pretty much right? I think it was a large enough investment.

        Kyle Orton was basically cut. What happened with him? He got picked up by a division rival and ended up nearly knocking us out of the playoffs. They didn't have to release Kyle Orton last season. Hopefully they take that in consideration this time around. That Orton move bugged me. Granted their offense only scored 7 pts on us anyway but we still lost that game! SD has some injuries at RB. So again, how should the Broncos value KM.

        Sure will be interesting to see that final 53 which in coming soon -Aug 31st

        FYI: Aug 28th roster cuts to 80
        Red 98

        Kareem rises to the top

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        • #19
          I think it says more than Knowshon than anything and how he's looked in camp. People want to talk about the guy like he will be so great in this offense, but he hasn't came out and proved anything yet this year.

          His 1 carry in the game should be telling enough.
          sigpic


          @BlueNOrangeFTW

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          • #20
            Originally posted by SammyWinder View Post
            How is JJ easier to tackle then Knowshon? Knowshon always goes down on first contact plus he is always injured...

            I don't understand all the love for Ball or KM... If JJ was giving a chance to play behind the number 1 line like these 2 in actually games we wouldn't be having these discussions....

            As a matter of fact if he was given this chance by the coaching staff we wouldn't needed to have to drafted Hillman... We could have gone after Turbin (who we saw last night)...

            I would have much more prefered:

            1. Magahee
            2. Turbin
            3. JJ

            To what we now have...
            I'm sorry

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Cugel View Post
              It means that they don't think they can work a trade for him, that's what.

              If they played him a lot last night it would mean they were trying to develop a market for Knowshon ahead of the trading deadline.

              You will see next game that they are going to play Willis and Hillman the entire game with McGahee playing 3/4 and Hillman the last 1/4 (unless Hillman still can't go due to his hamstring injury). They are the #1 and #2 backs. If Hillman can't go, then we'll see who they regard as their #2 RB, Lance Ball or Omon.

              As of today, it's still Lance Ball, but he would need a decent week of practices to wipe out the memory of his fumble filled performance last night.

              If Knowshon plays in the 4th quarter next week, THEN all the Knowshon jock sniffers can say "we told you so. Knowshon is #2 at least until Hillman gets back." But, I wouldn't hold your breath.


              Since he will only see spot duty and divide carries with Lance Ball and Omon in the 4th game, that means they are just going to cut him unless somebody like the Dolphins decides they desperately need a RB in trade.

              And if that's the case they can simply claim him off the waiver wire after the final cuts.
              Considerong Knowshon played with the first team some last night, it's not far fetched to expect him to pkay sunday.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by SammyWinder View Post
                How is JJ easier to tackle then Knowshon? Knowshon always goes down on first contact plus he is always injured...

                I don't understand all the love for Ball or KM... If JJ was giving a chance to play behind the number 1 line like these 2 in actually games we wouldn't be having these discussions....

                As a matter of fact if he was given this chance by the coaching staff we wouldn't needed to have to drafted Hillman... We could have gone after Turbin (who we saw last night)...

                I would have much more prefered:

                1. Magahee
                2. Turbin
                3. JJ

                To what we now have...
                Well considering the fact that Knowshon was top 10 in yards after contact, and broken tackles as a rookie, he's proven to be harder to tackle than someone who has exactly 0 NFL starts.

                You need to watch the games before you comment on things like this, pulling "always goes down on first contact"... You don't come in the top half of the league in yards after contact and be easy to tackle smh

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by BluenOrnge4Life View Post
                  I think it says more than Knowshon than anything and how he's looked in camp. People want to talk about the guy like he will be so great in this offense, but he hasn't came out and proved anything yet this year.

                  His 1 carry in the game should be telling enough.
                  He's looked great in camp. Just as good, if not better, than all the other RBs. The only RB on the roster that one could make a case for being better is McGahee.

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                  • #24
                    Omon and JJ don't play on the coverage teams either. I'll have to see Hillman take a snap in the NFL before he can even be in the conversation.

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                    • #25
                      Lance Balls does nothing really well, but everything kinda "meh"

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                      • #26
                        Lance Ball is dependable at best in my opinion, JJ really impressed me last season, good receiver out of the backfield, good runner. That said I still have hope for Knowshon, got a good feeling he'll fit into the Manning offense like a glove.
                        Come On You Blues! GO BRONCOS!

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by bucksnbroncs View Post
                          Will somebody please explain to me what is so "great" about these two?? All I hear is how bad Knowshon is but nothing to really back these two up. I really don't see the upgrade of either of these guys. AT ALL. This is NOT a post to dig at KM- so please don't- this IS a thread to possibly show me something I CANNOT find in these two. Just curious as to what they do so well.

                          Nothing great about these 2 to me neither. I would feel much better if we had Todman Or Joique Bell

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by BluenOrnge4Life View Post
                            I think it says more than Knowshon than anything and how he's looked in camp. People want to talk about the guy like he will be so great in this offense, but he hasn't came out and proved anything yet this year.

                            His 1 carry in the game should be telling enough.
                            Getting 1 carry can mean anything, maybe they don't want him to re-injure himself because they plan on using him more in the regular season. Hillman isn't going to come in and be good at pass blocking so we need a RB that can be a threat to catch and protect Manning, Moreno is the only real RB on the roster that offers that. Lance Ball isn't that good of a receiver out of the backfield either and Ball is far from a lock on the roster, yeah he plays special teams, but he's not great at it. You can't justify keeping a RB on the roster because of their special teams ability, I'd much rather have an extra S or LB for special teams than a RB.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Papa-pwn View Post
                              Well considering the fact that Knowshon was top 10 in yards after contact, and broken tackles as a rookie, he's proven to be harder to tackle than someone who has exactly 0 NFL starts.

                              You need to watch the games before you comment on things like this, pulling "always goes down on first contact"... You don't come in the top half of the league in yards after contact and be easy to tackle smh

                              When was this? His rookie year? Please post his CAREER YAC stats and I bet my account they are nowhere near the top 10, are you willing to bet yours?

                              Your the one that needs to watch the games, because Knowshown Moreno is not a YAC monster.. A injury monster or a monster bust maybe..

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by dizzolve View Post
                                For one thing KnoMo costs 2 roster spots cuz he doesn't play ST
                                JJ and Omon and Ball can play special teams

                                Does this matter? It does when a guy takes up 2 roster spots AND can't stay healthy
                                Originally posted by Cugel View Post
                                They play on SPECIAL TEAMS, that's what.

                                NEITHER is ever going to be able to hold Adrian Peterson, or Darren McFadden's jock or even hold a candle to Willis McGahee.

                                They are BACKUP RBs pure and simple. The heir apparent to McGahee is Hillman.

                                Knowshon is just a bust.

                                So, to answer the question, it's not a matter of how great Ball (who looked BAD last night) or Omon (who is probably going to make this team while Johnson does not) is. Rather it's that the 3rd and 4th RBs on this team are total scrubs. Special teams players who can be replaced next year or any year. (Unless Omon somehow continues to develop into a starter caliber RB, which is doubtful).

                                Lance Ball is never going to start barring injury. And he's nothing special.

                                And Knowshon isn't even worth a roster spot.




                                No, no, no, no, no!
                                Quite saying this people. Cugel you need to stop this as well. Repeat after me; LANCE BALL IS THE ONLY RB ON THE ROSTER WHO IS A STARTER ON ANY SPECIAL TEAMS UNIT!!!
                                JJ and Omon, have played on it in backup roles, but NOT WITH THE STARTERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

                                It will have no bearing on any of their roster spots because they are not with the starting unit. Now sure if injuries happen in reg season and a BACKUP (thats mostly who plays our st anyway...burton, ball, the tes, the OL boys etc....if they go down, then we can use jj or omon in a pinch, but its not likely to happen. It has no bearing!


                                Originally posted by theMileHighGuy View Post
                                Omon and JJ don't play on the coverage teams either. I'll have to see Hillman take a snap in the NFL before he can even be in the conversation.

                                Thank you! I do not know why I have to keep saying this. Ball is the only one on the ST...That whole argument that Cugel keeps pushing is crap.
                                So far:
                                FA- Melvin Gordon. Brandon Scherff
                                1. Kenneth Murray LB; 2. Shenault WR; 2B. Biadazz Center, 3. OT

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