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Depth Chart Going into the season Offense

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  • #46
    I mean for cripes sake i spelled out the fact that performance didn't earn hillman a spot higher on the depth chart. What's your deal Blaze?

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    • #47
      For a team committed to running the ball, the Broncos' TE group is weak in blocking. That will change when Virgil Green returns from suspension. It makes me wonder if McCoy will use Chris Clark as an End in some formations similar to last season.
      "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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      • #48
        Originally posted by samparnell View Post
        For a team committed to running the ball, the Broncos' TE group is weak in blocking. That will change when Virgil Green returns from suspension. It makes me wonder if McCoy will use Chris Clark as an End in some formations similar to last season.
        Too bad we lost Fells. Did they try lining up Gronk at that position?.
        HE>i

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Broncoboy6 View Post
          Too bad we lost Fells. Did they try lining up Gronk at that position?.
          I don't recall seeing Gronkowski at TE during preseason games. During TC Fox and McCoy said they thought he was versatile enough to move around. We'll see.
          "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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          • #50
            Originally posted by underrated29 View Post
            All I remember is people who went to camp saying that hillman looked much better than knowshon in camp. Which is 100% contradictory to what I myself saw when I went to camp all those days....Funny, how those people have disappeared from these threads.
            The leading rusher in preseason was Hillman, after only 2 games. Look it up. Nobody cares that Knowshon is #2 on the depth chart before the regular season even starts. Unless Hillman has a setback with his hammy, he will pass Moreno up soon enough. He's much faster and can actually take the ball to the house on any given touch, something Knowshon has never been good at doing.

            If you aren't a home run hitter as a RB in the NFL, then your ceiling is limited.

            It's Moreno's FOURTH year and we are still waiting for our #12 overall pick in 2009 to take the next step. He's here because his salary is way cheap this year, he can block, and catch passes out of the backfield.

            Yay! I'm sorry but I'm not jumping for joy because he's #2 on the depth chart. He's far from an every down back, and it's not near the situation they've had in Carolina where their 2 backs are Deangelo Williams & Stewart. Unless Moreno somehow has a breakout year, this will likely be his last in Denver.
            Last edited by BluenOrnge4Life; 09-04-2012, 09:20 PM.
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            • #51
              Originally posted by samparnell View Post
              I don't recall seeing Gronkowski at TE during preseason games. During TC Fox and McCoy said they thought he was versatile enough to move around. We'll see.
              Yeah i don't remember too. I guess we'll just have to wait until sunday.
              HE>i

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              • #52
                Originally posted by BluenOrnge4Life View Post
                The leading rusher in preseason was Hillman, after only 2 games. Look it up. Nobody cares that Knowshon is #2 on the depth chart before the regular season even starts. Unless Hillman has a setback with his hammy, he will pass Moreno up soon enough. He's much faster and can actually take the ball to the house on any given touch, something Knowshon has never been good at doing.

                If you aren't a home run hitter as a RB in the NFL, then your ceiling is limited.

                It's Moreno's FOURTH year and we are still waiting for our #12 overall pick in 2009 to take the next step. He's here because his salary is way cheap this year, he can block, and catch passes out of the backfield.

                Yay! I'm sorry but I'm not jumping for joy because he's #2 on the depth chart. He's far from an every down back, and it's not near the situation they've had in Carolina where their 2 backs are Deangelo Williams & Stewart. Unless Moreno somehow has a breakout year, this will likely be his last in Denver.
                Ronnie Hillman ran for 97 yards at 4.1 ypc. Moreno ran for 84 yards at 4.7 ypc. Moreno actually led all our backs this preseason with that YPC. Also keep in mind Hillman had 1 reception for 4 yards compared to Moreno's 4 catches for 40 yards. So all together, Hillman had 24 touches for 101 yards, 4.2 yards per touch. Moreno had 22 touches for 124 yards, 5.6 yards per touch. Safe to say Moreno outplayed him, especially considering the fact that Moreno played against 1st and 2nd string players, while Hillman was up against 3rd/4th steingers and players that no longer are on NFL rosters.

                In all likelyhood, Hillman will never pass Moreno unless Moreno suffers another injury, or we cant afford him next year. Moreno is a better player than Hillman. Hillman may be better at homeruns, but Moreno has him at everything else. I oike Hillman alot, and believe down the line he can become a 1b RB, but not a starter. If Moreno stays healthy this year, Hillman will probably play 1b to Moreno's 1a for most of his career, and I believe that will be great roles for the both of them.

                As for needing to be a homerun hitter.. No.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Papa-pwn View Post
                  Ronnie Hillman ran for 97 yards at 4.1 ypc. Moreno ran for 84 yards at 4.7 ypc. Moreno actually led all our backs this preseason with that YPC. Also keep in mind Hillman had 1 reception for 4 yards compared to Moreno's 4 catches for 40 yards. So all together, Hillman had 24 touches for 101 yards, 4.2 yards per touch. Moreno had 22 touches for 124 yards, 5.6 yards per touch. Safe to say Moreno outplayed him, especially considering the fact that Moreno played against 1st and 2nd string players, while Hillman was up against 3rd/4th steingers and players that no longer are on NFL rosters.

                  In all likelyhood, Hillman will never pass Moreno unless Moreno suffers another injury, or we cant afford him next year. Moreno is a better player than Hillman. Hillman may be better at homeruns, but Moreno has him at everything else. I oike Hillman alot, and believe down the line he can become a 1b RB, but not a starter. If Moreno stays healthy this year, Hillman will probably play 1b to Moreno's 1a for most of his career, and I believe that will be great roles for the both of them.

                  As for needing to be a homerun hitter.. No.
                  Hillman said a few times that he wasn't 100% with his hammy yet, which means A LOT for a Runningback. Let's also not forget that he's a rookie, not a 4th year player. He's only going to get better game by game, and he will eventually pass Moreno if he stays healthy.

                  The Broncos were high on this kid, moving up in the third to get him, and he's their guy. They inherited Moreno, and although he has a place on this team, he's not going to hold off Hillman unless the kid underperforms. He's too explosive to not get a lot of touches.

                  If you think that Elway doesn't believe the Broncos need a homerun hitter, then they wouldn't have drafted Hillman in the first place. Elway played with TD and he knows what it's like to have a guy who can take it to the house when he touches the ball. It matters..
                  Last edited by BluenOrnge4Life; 09-04-2012, 10:15 PM.
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                  • #54
                    Hahahaha, man papa pwn you are very confident KnoMo. In all likelihood hillman will back up moreno for most of his career? Moreno has stayed healthy one of his three seasons, hillman will over-take him sooner or later if for ABSOLUTELY NO OTHER REASON than moreno won't finish the season. Let alone the fact that Hillman's more talented, faster, has better vision and has already showed more flashes of potential in two pre-season games than moreno did in two years. Earmark this thread pwn, you're gonna be eating crow by the end of the season.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Mr. Chaz View Post
                      Hahahaha, man papa pwn you are very confident KnoMo. In all likelihood hillman will back up moreno for most of his career? Moreno has stayed healthy one of his three seasons, hillman will over-take him sooner or later if for ABSOLUTELY NO OTHER REASON than moreno won't finish the season. Let alone the fact that Hillman's more talented, faster, has better vision and has already showed more flashes of potential in two pre-season games than moreno did in two years. Earmark this thread pwn, you're gonna be eating crow by the end of the season.
                      No. You are wrong. How is Hillman more talented? Where has he proven it? He hasn't, so until then, he is not. Hillman showed more in two preseason games than Moreno ever has? Have you even watched the games? Seeing as Moreno outproduced Hillman against tougher competition in actual regular season games, and even this same preseason, I'd say you are horribly misinformed. Moreno has missed 12 games due to injury over his 3 year career. That's 12 out of 48. 14 out of 50 if you want to count the playoffs. Hillman has missed 2 games already due to injury, 2 out of 4. So that argument is worthless.

                      Moreno has had bad luck with injuries, this is true, and yes, the only way Hillman passes him on the depth chart will be due to injury.

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                      • #56
                        Not bad, except for Brooking at WLB over Trevathan.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by ERoyal248 View Post
                          Not bad, except for Brooking at WLB over Trevathan.
                          I also think Dreesen over Tamme can look deceiving. Tamme will get the majority of the targets, at least early!

                          Manning wanted Tamme & i expect him to be his security blanket early until he develops real chemistry with big targets like DT.
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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by BluenOrnge4Life View Post
                            Hillman said a few times that he wasn't 100% with his hammy yet, which means A LOT for a Runningback. Let's also not forget that he's a rookie, not a 4th year player. He's only going to get better game by game, and he will eventually pass Moreno if he stays healthy.

                            The Broncos were high on this kid, moving up in the third to get him, and he's their guy. They inherited Moreno, and although he has a place on this team, he's not going to hold off Hillman unless the kid underperforms. He's too explosive to not get a lot of touches.

                            If you think that Elway doesn't believe the Broncos need a homerun hitter, then they wouldn't have drafted Hillman in the first place. Elway played with TD and he knows what it's like to have a guy who can take it to the house when he touches the ball. It matters..
                            And Moreno's knee has been said to not be 100% by Fox and Elway, do knees not mean a lot to a runningback as well? Moreno has gotten better every year, as shown by his increased YPC. He looks much better this year than his rookie year when he sniffed 1000, as does our OL. So when he gets the touches, I'm expecting him to shut a lot of misinformed people up.

                            Furthermore, it is not a given that Hillman will get better. While he probably will regain his speed at some point, that may not be this year. A hamstring injury needs at least a month of rest to fully heal. He's not getting that month of rest. A soft tissue injury cannot heal all the way if it is constantly being used. An NFL RB is constantly using his hamstring. If he says the hamstring isn't 100% now, it won't be 100% until next season.

                            It's hard to speak in such certainties about Hillman, because the majority of 3rd round picks have done absolutely nothing in the NFL.

                            Whether Hillman underperforms or does well, I do not think it will matter, as I believe Knowshon's play will warrant more snaps.

                            Yes, he's a homerun hitter, not an every down back, not a work horse. A homerun hitter is a good thing to have, he will be a great compliment to Moreno, and Moreno a great compliment to Hillman. In the future, as a tandem, I can see Hillman getting around 150-200 carries to Moreno's 200-300. I believe that's close to what the FO envisions for Hillman. Usually you don't draft in the third expecting to inevitably start the player selected, they're usually chosen as role players or potential starters. I believe they picked Hillman with the idea of him being a sproles type, not a 1a back, but to support and spell whoever the starter will be in the future. I don't think that happens this year, due to the talent ahead of him, McGahee and Moreno, and his hamstring. I don't think the FO envisions Moreno as the RB to be that 1a, but I think he will make them see that this year.

                            In summation, I believe Hillman will eventually outplay his draft position and become a nice speed back for us, complementing the starter down the line, who I believe will be Moreno.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Papa-pwn View Post
                              And Moreno's knee has been said to not be 100% by Fox and Elway, do knees not mean a lot to a runningback as well? Moreno has gotten better every year, as shown by his increased YPC. He looks much better this year than his rookie year when he sniffed 1000, as does our OL. So when he gets the touches, I'm expecting him to shut a lot of misinformed people up.

                              Furthermore, it is not a given that Hillman will get better. While he probably will regain his speed at some point, that may not be this year. A hamstring injury needs at least a month of rest to fully heal. He's not getting that month of rest. A soft tissue injury cannot heal all the way if it is constantly being used. An NFL RB is constantly using his hamstring. If he says the hamstring isn't 100% now, it won't be 100% until next season.

                              It's hard to speak in such certainties about Hillman, because the majority of 3rd round picks have done absolutely nothing in the NFL.

                              Whether Hillman underperforms or does well, I do not think it will matter, as I believe Knowshon's play will warrant more snaps.

                              Yes, he's a homerun hitter, not an every down back, not a work horse. A homerun hitter is a good thing to have, he will be a great compliment to Moreno, and Moreno a great compliment to Hillman. In the future, as a tandem, I can see Hillman getting around 150-200 carries to Moreno's 200-300. I believe that's close to what the FO envisions for Hillman. Usually you don't draft in the third expecting to inevitably start the player selected, they're usually chosen as role players or potential starters. I believe they picked Hillman with the idea of him being a sproles type, not a 1a back, but to support and spell whoever the starter will be in the future. I don't think that happens this year, due to the talent ahead of him, McGahee and Moreno, and his hamstring. I don't think the FO envisions Moreno as the RB to be that 1a, but I think he will make them see that this year.

                              In summation, I believe Hillman will eventually outplay his draft position and become a nice speed back for us, complementing the starter down the line, who I believe will be Moreno.
                              Spare me the misinformed label. I've watched every game from Moreno in 3 seasons here, and I was one of his biggest fans when we drafted the guy.

                              In 3 years, I've seen a guy who's great in the open field & in pass protection, who's great catching passes out of the backfield; I've seen flashes from him in the preseason, games like the 170 yards rushing a couple of years ago against KC, the game against KC last year before he tore his ACL, but I've also seen a lot that I don't like.

                              I've seen a guy who doesn't have breakaway ability, I've seen a guy who cannot stay on the field for stretches at a time, not getting yards after the contract, tripping over himself at times, and a lack of patience as a runner.

                              So forgive me, If the mixed bag I've seen from him in 3 years doesn't inspire me when he has a few good preseason games this year.

                              Hillman on the other hand, has been described a bigger, stronger Darren Sproles type with Lesean Mccoy upside. When you see him a runner, he just has it: the vision, the burst, the ability to stop on a dime and take off in another direction, and the home run ability. Those are things that I value highly in a runningback. Like I said, I think Moreno does great at certain things, but i like the upside of HIllman a lot more.

                              We can agree to disagree, but the beauty of it is that we'll get to watch it all play out.
                              Last edited by BluenOrnge4Life; 09-04-2012, 11:24 PM.
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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by BluenOrnge4Life View Post
                                I also think Dreesen over Tamme can look deceiving. Tamme will get the majority of the targets, at least early!

                                Manning wanted Tamme & i expect him to be his security blanket early until he develops real chemistry with big targets like DT.
                                Dreesen is the starter because he can be a blocker and receiver, where Tamme is just known as a receiver and not much of a blocker.

                                I expect both of them to start games at times, with 2 TE sets. I think Tamme may have more yards but I think Dreesen is gonna be a TD machine. 7-10 TD's.
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