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  • #61
    Originally posted by AllEyezOnZach27 View Post
    Dreesen is the starter because he can be a blocker and receiver, where Tamme is just known as a receiver and not much of a blocker.

    I expect both of them to start games at times, with 2 TE sets. I think Tamme may have more yards but I think Dreesen is gonna be a TD machine. 7-10 TD's.
    Ya I know that's why, but it can be deceiving from a fantasy football standpoint if you look at that depth chart & don't really follow the team. I definitely expect Tamme to run the show early, but Dreesen might take over more down the stretch.

    Who knows, they both could have strong seasons if we run a lot of two tight end sets, which I hope that we do.
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    • #62
      Originally posted by AllEyezOnZach27 View Post
      Dreesen is the starter because he can be a blocker and receiver, where Tamme is just known as a receiver and not much of a blocker.

      I expect both of them to start games at times, with 2 TE sets. I think Tamme may have more yards but I think Dreesen is gonna be a TD machine. 7-10 TD's.
      Dreesen looked the better pass catching TE imo. More consistant, did not drop the ball like Tamme, that is huge for a QB...QBs go to the TE for reliability.

      I agree Dreesen will have the better TD numbers when the season is done.
      Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

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      • #63
        I'm glad to see Dreeson ahead of Tamme. Dude disappointed me this preseason.
        Lifetime Broncos/Cowboys fan.
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        • #64
          Originally posted by BluenOrnge4Life View Post
          Spare me the misinformed label. I've watched every game from Moreno in 3 seasons here, and I was one of his biggest fans when we drafted the guy.

          In 3 years, I've seen a guy who's great in the open field & in pass protection, who's great catching passes out of the backfield; I've seen flashes from him in the preseason, games like the 170 yards rushing a couple of years ago against KC, the game against KC last year before he tore his ACL, but I've also seen a lot that I don't like.

          I've seen a guy who doesn't have breakaway ability, I've seen a guy who cannot stay on the field for stretches at a time, not getting yards after the contract, tripping over himself at times, and a lack of patience as a runner.

          So forgive me, If the mixed bag I've seen from him in 3 years doesn't inspire me when he has a few good preseason games this year.

          Hillman on the other hand, has been described a bigger, stronger Darren Sproles type with Lesean Mccoy upside. When you see him a runner, he just has it: the vision, the burst, the ability to stop on a dime and take off in another direction, and the home run ability. Those are things that I value highly in a runningback. Like I said, I think Moreno does great at certain things, but i like the upside of HIllman a lot more.

          We can agree to disagree, but the beauty of it is that we'll get to watch it all play out.
          Yards after contct is one of Moreno's fortes, so I don't know what you watched. He was 10th in the NFL his rookie year in that exact stat. The cast majority of his handoffs were met with a defender or two in the backfield by our poor OL, and yet he still found ways to turn 2 yard losses into 4 yard gains. This year our OL seems to be better, probably with defenses respect for Manning, and should open quality running lanes, the first Moreno has ever seen in his NFL career.

          Hillman is a skinnier than Sproles and was drafted in the third round. The fact tyat he is taller and the same weight does not mean "bigger". LeSean McCoy upside? That's taking it a bit far. We can compare any young player to a top player atntheir position based on body type alone, doesn't mean they'll match their production in the league. "Steven Johnson has Patrick Willis upside, Omar Bolden has Deion Sanders upside"...right, you get it. We'll be lucky if Hillman's on the roster in two years, so far he's just and average 3rd round pick thats missed just as many games as he's played in. We've seen him him two preseason games, against guys that no longer have jobs..a bit ridiculous to crown him after that.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Papa-pwn View Post
            Yards after contct is one of Moreno's fortes, so I don't know what you watched. He was 10th in the NFL his rookie year in that exact stat. The cast majority of his handoffs were met with a defender or two in the backfield by our poor OL, and yet he still found ways to turn 2 yard losses into 4 yard gains. This year our OL seems to be better, probably with defenses respect for Manning, and should open quality running lanes, the first Moreno has ever seen in his NFL career.

            Hillman is a skinnier than Sproles and was drafted in the third round. The fact tyat he is taller and the same weight does not mean "bigger". LeSean McCoy upside? That's taking it a bit far. We can compare any young player to a top player atntheir position based on body type alone, doesn't mean they'll match their production in the league. "Steven Johnson has Patrick Willis upside, Omar Bolden has Deion Sanders upside"...right, you get it. We'll be lucky if Hillman's on the roster in two years, so far he's just and average 3rd round pick thats missed just as many games as he's played in. We've seen him him two preseason games, against guys that no longer have jobs..a bit ridiculous to crown him after that.
            I think you have some really good points. But I think it's too early to say that he will lucky to be on the roster in 2 yrs. Let's remember, so far it has only been preseason. Let's see what he does when it really counts.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Papa-pwn View Post
              Yards after contct is one of Moreno's fortes, so I don't know what you watched. He was 10th in the NFL his rookie year in that exact stat. The cast majority of his handoffs were met with a defender or two in the backfield by our poor OL, and yet he still found ways to turn 2 yard losses into 4 yard gains. This year our OL seems to be better, probably with defenses respect for Manning, and should open quality running lanes, the first Moreno has ever seen in his NFL career.

              Hillman is a skinnier than Sproles and was drafted in the third round. The fact tyat he is taller and the same weight does not mean "bigger". LeSean McCoy upside? That's taking it a bit far. We can compare any young player to a top player atntheir position based on body type alone, doesn't mean they'll match their production in the league. "Steven Johnson has Patrick Willis upside, Omar Bolden has Deion Sanders upside"...right, you get it. We'll be lucky if Hillman's on the roster in two years, so far he's just and average 3rd round pick thats missed just as many games as he's played in. We've seen him him two preseason games, against guys that no longer have jobs..a bit ridiculous to crown him after that.
              Hillman weighs more than Sproles dude.

              The guy is our leading rusher in the preseason after only 2 games and that's remarkable considering him having an injury and being a rookie. That has to count for something. That's why guys are excited to see what he brings this season.

              You are right about the body type relating to production part. Because we all were hoping Moreno would be the next Ray Rice.

              Moreno has also been running against guys who don't have jobs and I remember how you and others were calling the o-line garbage when he wasn't good the first few games. Well Hillman has also been behind that same garbage line so if he's just been average then Moreno has also been average because their numbers aren't too far apart.

              You say we'd be lucky if he were here after two seasons? You must've forgotten about Moreno's situation...
              Last edited by PhoenixDread; 09-05-2012, 10:19 AM.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Papa-pwn View Post
                Yards after contct is one of Moreno's fortes, so I don't know what you watched. He was 10th in the NFL his rookie year in that exact stat. The cast majority of his handoffs were met with a defender or two in the backfield by our poor OL, and yet he still found ways to turn 2 yard losses into 4 yard gains. This year our OL seems to be better, probably with defenses respect for Manning, and should open quality running lanes, the first Moreno has ever seen in his NFL career.

                Hillman is a skinnier than Sproles and was drafted in the third round. The fact tyat he is taller and the same weight does not mean "bigger". LeSean McCoy upside? That's taking it a bit far. We can compare any young player to a top player atntheir position based on body type alone, doesn't mean they'll match their production in the league. "Steven Johnson has Patrick Willis upside, Omar Bolden has Deion Sanders upside"...right, you get it. We'll be lucky if Hillman's on the roster in two years, so far he's just and average 3rd round pick thats missed just as many games as he's played in. We've seen him him two preseason games, against guys that no longer have jobs..a bit ridiculous to crown him after that.
                Oh please... there's a BIG difference between comparing Hillman's upside to one of the best in the game today, than Bolden's to arguably the best all time at his position.

                Yes, Hillman does have Lesean Mccoy UPSIDE. The keyword being upside. That doesn't mean he will ever get there, but it means his style resembles Lesean Mccoy in a lot of ways and one day he could BECOME that type of player.

                Believe it or not, the Ronnie Hillman love stretches much further than this board. I'd be glad to post some excerpts from my footballguys.com subscription where a lot of the senior writers are high on the kid and have mention of that upside.

                As for Moreno, his YACn Avg of 2.1 over the past 3 years is about midway through the pack. It looks decent on the surface, but when you aren't a burner, you'd better be exceptional at yards after contact. His average isn't exceptional, it's average.

                This was the #12th overall pick.. he wasn't supposed to be an average Runningback.

                If he was a lot better than average, Mcgahee would be the #2 and Hillman probably wouldn't even be here.
                Last edited by BluenOrnge4Life; 09-05-2012, 12:28 PM.
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                • #68
                  Originally posted by PhoenixDread View Post
                  Hillman weighs more than Sproles dude.

                  The guy is our leading rusher in the preseason after only 2 games and that's remarkable considering him having an injury and being a rookie. That has to count for something. That's why guys are excited to see what he brings this season.

                  You are right about the body type relating to production part. Because we all were hoping Moreno would be the next Ray Rice.

                  Moreno has also been running against guys who don't have jobs and I remember how you and others were calling the o-line garbage when he wasn't good the first few games. Well Hillman has also been behind that same garbage line so if he's just been average then Moreno has also been average because their numbers aren't too far apart.

                  You say we'd be lucky if he were here after two seasons? You must've forgotten about Moreno's situation...
                  Ya Hillman is 3 inches taller and 10 pounds heavier than Sproles. Like I said, bigger.
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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by BluenOrnge4Life View Post
                    I also think Dreesen over Tamme can look deceiving. Tamme will get the majority of the targets, at least early!

                    Manning wanted Tamme & i expect him to be his security blanket early until he develops real chemistry with big targets like DT.
                    Not really, Dreesen is a good in-line blocker while Tamme is more of a receiving TE.

                    And can help chip at times.

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                    • #70
                      And i don't get why people compare Hillman to Sproles.

                      For one, he's bigger, and stronger, he reminds me of a Charles/McCoy type. He's not a scat-back, 3rd-down back like Sproles is. Certainly excited to see how we use him.

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Denver Mike View Post
                        I still dont get what this FO's obsession is with Ball.. He'll randomly make a cool play but drows it out with garbage ones every 100 snaps in between
                        Ball is a solid steady back. He know his assignments, has good hands out of the backfield, apparently is a good lockerrom guy and teammate, is always prepared to play, plays ST's. He's the kind of guy coaches love as a backup until they can find someone better

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by ERoyal248 View Post
                          Not really, Dreesen is a good in-line blocker while Tamme is more of a receiving TE.

                          And can help chip at times.
                          During the first three preseason games, I didn't see Tamme do any effective blocking. It looks like he doesn't know how or won't make the effort.

                          If McCoy/Manning expect him to do any semblance of blocking, they will probably need to line him up tight or as a Wing/Slot with his blocking assignment right in front of him just like the first week of TC in pads between the bags.

                          In one preseason game, he was the inside off receiver in Bunch. The play was a handoff to McGahee running to Bunch. Tamme's assignment was a standup 5/7 tech between him and the T. He failed to make what should have been a doable down block resulting in a five yard loss.

                          For a veteran TE who played in the SEC, that's pretty pitiful. Everyone on offense must block, but of the non-interior OL that is especially true for TEs. It's sad when the two starting WRs block better than a TE. The TE group in this depth chart is weak in blocking, but that will improve when Green returns from suspension.

                          Maybe McCoy will show some unbalanced line like he did last year with Chris Clark as the short side End?
                          "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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                          • #73
                            Pwn you can throw out all the numbers you want to try and justify and solidify your arguement, but the fact is Moreno ain't on scholarship anymore mayne. Your delusions of him becoming our 1a running back are a little staggering, considering the fact if we had a stable of McGahee, Ball (coaches love 'em..) and Moreno going into the offseason, not to mention JJ and the others, and EFX actually BELIEVED Moreno was capable of that type of play, Ronnie Hillman isn't freakin' drafted. Obviously, they are not nearly as high on him as you are as they felt they needed an upgrade and an investment at the position.

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by samparnell View Post
                              During the first three preseason games, I didn't see Tamme do any effective blocking. It looks like he doesn't know how or won't make the effort.

                              If McCoy/Manning expect him to do any semblance of blocking, they will probably need to line him up tight or as a Wing/Slot with his blocking assignment right in front of him just like the first week of TC in pads between the bags.

                              In one preseason game, he was the inside off receiver in Bunch. The play was a handoff to McGahee running to Bunch. Tamme's assignment was a standup 5/7 tech between him and the T. He failed to make what should have been a doable down block resulting in a five yard loss.

                              For a veteran TE who played in the SEC, that's pretty pitiful. Everyone on offense must block, but of the non-interior OL that is especially true for TEs. It's sad when the two starting WRs block better than a TE. The TE group in this depth chart is weak in blocking, but that will improve when Green returns from suspension.

                              Maybe McCoy will show some unbalanced line like he did last year with Chris Clark as the short side End?
                              Agreed. Joel Dreessen is a very good in-line blocking tight end with some deceptively-good receiving skills.

                              Jacob Tamme is strictly the "move" tight end, which I doubt we'll see him lined up in a 3-point stance to take on a dlineman or linebacker often. He'll probably be used to bully nickel cornerbacks lined up in the slot when we decide to run.


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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by BluenOrnge4Life View Post
                                Ya Hillman is 3 inches taller and 10 pounds heavier than Sproles. Like I said, bigger.
                                They are both listed at 190, so no, he is skinner.

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