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  • Broncos exposed

    Its really going to hurt to say this, but I dont think Jake Plummer is the answer like I thought he was and heres the reason:

    #1 The base of the Bronco offense is utilizing the skills of Plummer (mainly being a better "out of pocket passer" who does his best on the run). Hence the constant "rollout" plays. This does not work anymore (and Im suprised it has worked well this long) due to the fact defenses are assigning a linebacker to "track" Plummer for this play which dumbfounds him to make a desperate play to keep from being sacked.

    #2 He is not a consistant quarterback. He'll look good one week, then bomb the next. Too many "boneheaded" plays.

    #3 If the oposing defense restricts Plummer to pass inside the pocket, the passing game is stripped and so the defense can focus on the run, which puts us in a deeper whole.

    I like Plummer as a quarterback, but if he cannot learn to pass effectively in the pocket, he will not be the answer we are looking for.


  • #2
    I agree with what you are saying. I hope they are working on something different to get Plummer moving. When they tried to do the bootleg against SD and that linebacker was there, I cried a little.
    RIP D-Will

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    • #3
      funny how basicly the same was said about Griese and look all he's done for the Bucs thus far,he kept them in playoff hunt with help of course.but once again a qb can't be consistent if he doesn't have the blocking or the recivers,tight ends and backs aren't getting open in time.
      Never give up on your team,for a fan is to be by his/her team all the team whether they're having a bad year or a great year.Even in the gloomiest of times your team can come up and surprise you with a run to the Super Bowl.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by pickedoffby#55B
        funny how basicly the same was said about Griese and look all he's done for the Bucs thus far,he kept them in playoff hunt with help of course.but once again a qb can't be consistent if he doesn't have the blocking or the recivers,tight ends and backs aren't getting open in time.

        I dont think you can compare Greise with Plummer. Greise just didnt get it done, simply because he didnt have a very strong arm and is not that mobile. Jake has a strong arm and is very mobile, hence all of the bootleg plays. I love how Jake adds a spark to the offense. We can finally start going deep on pases, which with Greise you hardly saw at all. I just dont like the fact that he cannot be an effective pocket passer and has throw on the run to be more acurate.

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        • #5
          Am I the only one that has seen a trend the last few games we have used Plummer strictly in the pocket which has caused alot of tipped balls and caused alot of problems. If there is a LB that is assigned to Plummer as you say someone is open and that should be addressed because rollouts are very important to our success and should not be abandoned completely like the last 3 or 4 games. We have been trying to take teams on one on one and this is killing us on wet fields that is crazy trying to take on a team that out weighs us by a considerable bunch. We should have used misdirection to our advantage we played right into their hands.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by 56crash
            Am I the only one that has seen a trend the last few games we have used Plummer strictly in the pocket which has caused alot of tipped balls and caused alot of problems. If there is a LB that is assigned to Plummer as you say someone is open and that should be addressed because rollouts are very important to our success and should not be abandoned completely like the last 3 or 4 games. We have been trying to take teams on one on one and this is killing us on wet fields that is crazy trying to take on a team that out weighs us by a considerable bunch. We should have used misdirection to our advantage we played right into their hands.

            Yeah, you want to know who's open when there is a linebacker assigned to Plummer to take out the bootleg? A te that cant catch. By assigning a linebacker to watch Plummer for the bootleg you take away the element of suprise, will he pass, or run it, he cant run it (the linebacker is right there waiting for him) therefore the linebacker knows if he stands his ground he can still cover that side of the field causing an interception or tipped ball. Getting into Plummers face causing a bad throw, or simply getting to whoever is attempting to catch the ball.
            Last edited by dfrivers; 12-07-2004, 12:28 PM.

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            • #7
              Well even if there is a LB assigned to Jake... then its simple he should roll to the other side, and maybe use a little extra protection to take care of the LB... Against SD, our O Line broke on more than one occassion, prompts to Jake for not fumbling...

              We just need a TE who can catch the ball, and Mike has to design the plays that work with Jake's talent. He is not a good pocket passer, so get him out of the pocket... like Vick!

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              • #8
                Plummer's good. He has potential to be better than that, even. He gives the offense a dimension we didn't have before. We just have to design playcalling around his strengths.

                You don't have to run well to get Jake to roll out. He's not a big guy and he plays better on the run. The mobile pocket facilitates his ability to move, meaning it's difficult to know where to attack him. The run just facilitates this even more.

                I think we just need a lot more consistent play from the guys around him. Lelie and Smith kept us in that game in SD. But the other guys didn't do so hot. Drops kill, especially in a possession-style offense. And we just put the ball on the ground when we should have caught it. We really need to invest in a clutch possession-style receiver in the offseason, preferably a TE. Lelie has turned things around and can continue to improve, Watts still has a ways to come, and Smith is prolific. One more piece to the west coast puzzle turns our offense into a thing of beauty.
                "Pey-Pey to Bay-Bay for the Tay Day!!"

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                • #9
                  All iknow is that jake is the man and we just need things to change around him.
                  BRONCOS fan is in my blood!
                  IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v368/vannote/cutlersig.jpg[/IMG]

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ihateshanny
                    Ok first of all, NFL coaches are far to smart to simply assign a linebacker to spy Plummer so get off that kick.

                    They are just coaching a strict contain scheme to keep the roll outs from happening on either side, and with over 1,000,000,000,001 coverage schemes available to defenses I highly doubt losing one linebacker in coverage means somone is running around wide open, or else how do you account for blitzing defenses. Incase you have not noticed most defenses have all our tight end and back screens pretty well snuffed out as well, so even the hot routes become uceless in this case and even if the backer or end loses contain it is still a worthless pass unless it can be completed to a receiver downfield, which are usually doubled up on the past few weeks.

                    Now if you want Kanell in at QB just wait until some smart guy decides he wants to stop that Putizer lining up on the sideline and outrunning a LB or safety in man coverage.

                    Since most teams follow the wideout who aligns in the slot on these paticular plays it will be very easy to get a super fast corner blitzing from inside if you cover the slot with a safety over the top and play press coverage on Putizer to keep him from releasing fast.

                    Yes that means an unaccounted blitzer (who by nature is VERy fast) will be headed right at Plummer's ass pretty soon.

                    Ole genious Shanny boy better rethink that little scheme before somone answers him and takes out his QB for the season.

                    Quote me if Im wrong, but isnt the "rollout"play a 3 wr set? Again I might be wrong but taking the saftey to cover the slot receiver to have the corner blitz, that means you have a saftey one on one with either Lelie or Smith? Im sorry that has to be a pretty damn fast corner for one thing, second thing is I like the chances that either Lelie or Smith are one on one with a saftey concidering especially how Lelie has been playing lately.

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                    • #11
                      a very % of all our roll outs come from being able to run the ball fairly consistently....vs SD we couldnt run w/ any effect till the last drive when the int came in the endzone...so that LB never worried about it just followed jake n blew it up every time...

                      that took away 1/2 our offense n made jake a pocket passer which hes avg at best....n we all seen the results balls batted turned to int's....same thing happens every time he has 2 do that theres alot of batted balls n his accurancy goes way down...

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ihateshanny
                        First of all it is so obvious you do not understand a thing I said, or you seriously do not have an understanding of how it would play out on the field. You may like Lelie or Smith's chances against a safety but what you seem to not understand is that the Safety in the play will not even have to cover, all he has to do is sit back and make sure if the QB escapes and gets a pass off to the slot it is for minimal gain. If the QB gets that pass off it will not be completed for any more than 4 yards at best. Reality is a ***** when dealing with football.

                        You can roll out in any formation, as long as you have protection set up, but you cannot roll out against a good contain unit as we have seen the past few games.

                        Most of the roll outs I have seen come from tight end or motion to two back sets.
                        It's not hard to mix up what you said because it's worded poorly, but I think you're saying that the weak CB blitz will easily stop a PA rollout weakside. I don't think you meant "inside", cause that's suicide. I say "maybe", unless you don't know what we're running (which is the case unless you're running drills in practice). You act like the CB blitz is the best thing since sliced bread. But a weak LB blitz is better. A LB in the backfield is much better at stopping the run, a blitzing LB at the LOS gets to the QB faster, a LB is less likely to be taken out by a RB blocker, and in the case of a blitzing LB, the Strong safety takes the TE on the strong side...a much better assignment than a WR. The CB blitz can work, but it isn't taking anybody out for the season, and clearly would be used more frequently if it were as effective as you think.
                        Last edited by Lomax; 12-07-2004, 05:38 PM.
                        "Pey-Pey to Bay-Bay for the Tay Day!!"

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by communist
                          We just need a TE who can catch the ball
                          I agree with that 100%..... look at last year when Jake had Sharpe to throw at, especially in clutch situations... Sharpe could get it done... now this year.. come on lets call it like it is, Carswell has not produced this year with his so-called "soft" hands to be a TE... put him back in the G position like Mike had originally wanted...

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ihateshanny
                            Talk about not understanding a word about what I said.

                            The Blitz is not designed to stop the roll out, it is designed to stop the tight end wide out pass they are going deep with. If you think its poorly worded, sorry I speak fluent football terminology, it is very well worded.

                            Now since when did I act like the Cb blitz was the best thing since sliced bread? I am saying moving the TE out the way they are and the flanker inside to the slot puts the fastest player on the field in a perfect blitz position to leave the slot receiver very well covered and the blitzer is not accounted for in the protection scheme.

                            And if your going to tell me that Jake Plummer taking a full speed shot right in his backside might not put him out for the season why dont you go outside and let somebody ram the **** out of your back going full speed a few times and come back and tell me what the doctor said about it.

                            And to even assume that every thing a team does is not practiced against and fully studied during the preperation week in the NFL is moranic to say the least.

                            Now your entire responce was against something I did not even discuss.
                            Your posts are spot on as far as our game plan went. Our D focused not so much on sacking Plummer as it did on keeping him contained in the pocket. Our sacks came when our front 3 got amazingly strong push up front and in the middle to collapse the pocket and make containment nearly irelevant. Jake is better on rollouts because the open window to his receivers is increased as they make route changes in conjunction with the roll out. Stripped of that, JP is less accurate.

                            Still, JP almost got it on Sunday from us, but almost surely will at some point get a crushing hit because he runs around in places QB's simplay cannot safely go, even within the tackles or slightly ahead of the leading pass rush. Some LB, CB or safety is really gonna lay some wood to him, its only a matter of time.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by ihateshanny
                              Talk about not understanding a word about what I said.

                              The Blitz is not designed to stop the roll out, it is designed to stop the tight end wide out pass they are going deep with. If you think its poorly worded, sorry I speak fluent football terminology, it is very well worded.

                              Now since when did I act like the Cb blitz was the best thing since sliced bread? I am saying moving the TE out the way they are and the flanker inside to the slot puts the fastest player on the field in a perfect blitz position to leave the slot receiver very well covered and the blitzer is not accounted for in the protection scheme.

                              And if your going to tell me that Jake Plummer taking a full speed shot right in his backside might not put him out for the season why dont you go outside and let somebody ram the **** out of your back going full speed a few times and come back and tell me what the doctor said about it.

                              And to even assume that every thing a team does is not practiced against and fully studied during the preperation week in the NFL is moranic to say the least.

                              Now your entire responce was against something I did not even discuss.
                              The tight end wide out pass...is that "fluent football terminology", because I sure have never heard of that play before. The only play I'm aware of that does that is the open shotgun formation, where we motion a RB to the slot. But since you use "fluent football terminology" I guess you couldn't just say that. From the slot it takes about 3 seconds to get the QB. Tack on another second because of the gun. That's not enough time to get a guy open? In any event, doesn't a WR screen just blast that play out of the water? How about a QB draw? TE arrow?

                              So if everything a team does is practiced against, I assume we'll see a bunch of CB blitzes against the "tight end wideout pass" in the Miami game. I'll be looking for it.
                              Last edited by Lomax; 12-07-2004, 06:30 PM.
                              "Pey-Pey to Bay-Bay for the Tay Day!!"

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