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With McGahee's struggles, does Moreno get another shot?

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  • beastlyskronk
    replied
    Originally posted by TH3JUICEMAN View Post
    One was playing McD ball (pass, pass, pass some more, run with success, screw it pass some more) and one has played Fox ball (pound the rock every damn first down and who cares if their is 11 in the box).

    That is why McGahee gets more carries.
    Moreno's first year here he had 247 carries, last year McGahee had 249.

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  • beastlyskronk
    replied
    Originally posted by SinePari View Post
    Well, I think part of the reason is that Knowshon's skill set lends him to be a better running back/receiving back. He's not as big as Willis, not as powerful of a runner. But conversely, he's a much better receiver so why not use that? A lack of carries by a player doesn't necessarily mean he's unproductive, which is why I pointed out the importance of including Moreno's receiving yards. Backs can be productive in different ways (Sproles is a perfect example) and we shouldn't penalize Moreno for getting some of his yards through receptions so long as those receptions are fruitful (which they have been to the tune of 9 yds/reception).
    Then if you want Moreno to come in to catch the ball out of the backfield, we already have Holliday and Hillman who are more capable of breaking a big gain than Moreno. Even McGahee has vastly improved in the receiving game this year.

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  • TH3JUICEMAN
    replied
    Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    But then you have to ask yourself why is McGahee getting those 5 extra carries and it's for a variety of reasons which have all been mentioned already in this thread. McGahee has also only had 2 games here where he had over 25 carries. The Cincy game that you mentioned and his last game against the Chiefs in which he was well over 100 yards.
    One was playing McD ball (pass, pass, pass some more, run with success, screw it pass some more) and one has played Fox ball (pound the rock every damn first down and who cares if their is 11 in the box).

    That is why McGahee gets more carries.

    Leave a comment:


  • SinePari
    replied
    Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    But then you have to ask yourself why is McGahee getting those 5 extra carries and it's for a variety of reasons which have all been mentioned already in this thread. McGahee has also only had 2 games here where he had over 25 carries. The Cincy game that you mentioned and his last game against the Chiefs in which he was well over 100 yards.
    Well, I think part of the reason is that Knowshon's skill set lends him to be a better running back/receiving back. He's not as big as Willis, not as powerful of a runner. But conversely, he's a much better receiver so why not use that? A lack of carries by a player doesn't necessarily mean he's unproductive, which is why I pointed out the importance of including Moreno's receiving yards. Backs can be productive in different ways (Sproles is a perfect example) and we shouldn't penalize Moreno for getting some of his yards through receptions so long as those receptions are fruitful (which they have been to the tune of 9 yds/reception).

    Leave a comment:


  • beastlyskronk
    replied
    Originally posted by SinePari View Post
    But this is also skewed. So for example, Knowshon has a number of games where he's very close to 100 and had he had one or two more carries, he would've broken 100. He had 18 carries for 97 yards in 2009 against Washington, 10 carries for 80 yards against San Diego that same year, 88 yards against both New England and the Giants. In each of those cases, he averaged over 4.5 yds/carry and easily could have gone over 100 yards.

    Conversely, Willis has a couple of games where he just barely cracked 100 (like 101 against Cinci, 103 against New England). And in some cases, it took Willis between 25-30 carries to get to that 100 - way more carries than Moreno usually saw.

    The key is Moreno doesn't get the ball nearly as much. In 38 games in Denver, he has averaged 12 carries per game. In 24 games in Denver, McGahee has averaged over 17 carries per game. That five extra carries per game, especially for a back averaging 4.2, 4.3 yards a game, is huge in yardage.

    Also, if you were to include Knowshon's contributions on the receiving end, he has 11 games in two seasons (basically in total games worth) over 100 total yards.

    In the end, Moreno is a victim of his draft position - something he had no control over. He's not worth the 12th pick, but he's certainly not a terrible back.
    But then you have to ask yourself why is McGahee getting those 5 extra carries and it's for a variety of reasons which have all been mentioned already in this thread. McGahee has also only had 2 games here where he had over 25 carries. The Cincy game that you mentioned and his last game against the Chiefs in which he was well over 100 yards.

    Leave a comment:


  • SinePari
    replied
    Originally posted by swaiy View Post
    I dont think anyone would argue Moreno's production if he would just hit the hole and takes what he can get.

    So let's say they activated Moreno. Who do you make inactive? He doesnt play special teams.
    That's the problem I guess. I think I'd deactivate Ball and activate Moreno. Then make Moreno play special teams. Might as well. Though, Knowshon's propensity for injury might be the reason they don't do that.

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  • Bootleg
    replied
    Xavier Omon is still a free agent.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rarelyoffended
    replied
    Why go back on a failed injury prone first round draft pick? There was a reason they wanted Hillman. Since many people think organizations usually make the right calls on who should start. Which I would get in depth, but its not that important. Hillman is still very young and raw, but if he gets his learning curve down he reminds me of a mix between Sproles and Spiller.

    Leave a comment:


  • fairweatherh8r
    replied
    This thread is in no way bashing McGahee, we all know what he is capable of and he has been a huge part of this team since he has arrived, but I mean it is what it is. Whether its him wearing down, not staying focused, even just a string of bad luck, it doesn't matter, this is a problem we cannot afford to have come play off time. I think maybe giving him some time to rest so that he is fresh for the play offs wouldn't be a bad idea.

    Leave a comment:


  • ArchAngel
    replied
    Moreno is a product of the McDaniels era, he is tainted and has no present or future with the Broncos. Too bad, because I thought this offense was tailored made for his talents. I noticed he had problems in pass protection and of course, running into the backs of his linemen isnt going to endear him to the coaches.

    Leave a comment:


  • SinePari
    replied
    Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    It would certainly help if Knowshon could put up big numbers against other teams that aren't the Chiefs. Knowshon only has 2 career 100+ yards rushing games in his career. McGahee has had 10 in 2 years. He's had more 100 yard games this season than Moreno has had his entire career.

    And I support Moreno, I think he's a great short yardage/goalline back. He has a nose for getting into the endzone in goal to go situations.
    But this is also skewed. So for example, Knowshon has a number of games where he's very close to 100 and had he had one or two more carries, he would've broken 100. He had 18 carries for 97 yards in 2009 against Washington, 10 carries for 80 yards against San Diego that same year, 88 yards against both New England and the Giants. In each of those cases, he averaged over 4.5 yds/carry and easily could have gone over 100 yards.

    Conversely, Willis has a couple of games where he just barely cracked 100 (like 101 against Cinci, 103 against New England). And in some cases, it took Willis between 25-30 carries to get to that 100 - way more carries than Moreno usually saw.

    The key is Moreno doesn't get the ball nearly as much. In 38 games in Denver, he has averaged 12 carries per game. In 24 games in Denver, McGahee has averaged over 17 carries per game. That five extra carries per game, especially for a back averaging 4.2, 4.3 yards a game, is huge in yardage.

    Also, if you were to include Knowshon's contributions on the receiving end, he has 11 games in two seasons (basically in total games worth) over 100 total yards.

    In the end, Moreno is a victim of his draft position - something he had no control over. He's not worth the 12th pick, but he's certainly not a terrible back.
    Last edited by SinePari; 11-12-2012, 01:16 PM.

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  • beastlyskronk
    replied
    Originally posted by samparnell View Post
    I'm guessin' high and tight and cover until the second level out of heavy traffic; a hundred trips through the blaster every day; and, carry Mr. Ball with you everywhere where everyone tries to punch it out, and if they do, 25 pushups.
    I'd make him do at least 150, 25 isn't a punishment for McGahee, it's a reward.

    Leave a comment:


  • samparnell
    replied
    Originally posted by RazR View Post
    McGahee's ball security must improve dramatically or I could see KM getting a nod. BUT... I'm going to think that McGahee is going to get a good dose of ball security 101 this week and should, HOPEFULLY, protect the ball better. Because outside of that, he's looking solid out there.
    I'm guessin' high and tight and cover until the second level out of heavy traffic; a hundred trips through the blaster every day; and, carry Mr. Ball with you everywhere where everyone tries to punch it out, and if they do, 25 pushups.

    Leave a comment:


  • swaiy
    replied
    I dont think anyone would argue Moreno's production if he would just hit the hole and takes what he can get.

    So let's say they activated Moreno. Who do you make inactive? He doesnt play special teams.

    Leave a comment:


  • crash123go
    replied
    I would actually like to see more hillman cause right now mcgahee does look a little slower and isn't breaking any runs so what could it hurt

    Leave a comment:

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