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  • Originally posted by Me&theOldMan View Post
    Plus, they were only "caught" for the Jets game... Was probably SOP before that...
    in fairness it was probably SOP for the entire league up until that point as it was the first game after the league-wide memo. But then again I'm not one who puts a lot of stock into spygate being that big of a deal especially after seeing the house of cards in the case against the Saints come crashing down.

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    • There is conclusive evidence the Cheatriots video taped the Rams walk through prior to the SB. I love how their fans pretend they didn't get caught cheating in any games of relevance.
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      Thank you to my grandfather jetrazor for being a veteran of the armed forces!

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      • Originally posted by Al Wilson 4 Mayor View Post
        There is conclusive evidence the Cheatriots video taped the Rams walk through prior to the SB. I love how their fans pretend they didn't get caught cheating in any games of relevance.
        Actually there's no evidence of this whatsoever let alone "conclusive" evidence. If you can show me a source for this claim I'll change my tune but if we're just going to start making stuff up we're really no better than them and the moral high ground is gone imo.

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        • Originally posted by Hal9000
          Weren't you guys also busted for video taping?
          The irony behind this statement. Hopefully you dont send anymore trojan horses to our team.

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          • Originally posted by Cutler79 View Post
            Actually there's no evidence of this whatsoever let alone "conclusive" evidence. If you can show me a source for this claim I'll change my tune but if we're just going to start,,making stuff up we're really no better than them and the moral high ground is gone imo.
            Fair enough....when I'm in front of a computer I'll see what I can find. I assure you I didn't make it up. If I'm wrong ill recant what I said. It's. Been a while since I read about it.
            sigpic
            Thank you to my grandfather jetrazor for being a veteran of the armed forces!

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            • Originally posted by Cutler79 View Post
              Actually there's no evidence of this whatsoever let alone "conclusive" evidence. If you can show me a source for this claim I'll change my tune but if we're just going to start making stuff up we're really no better than them and the moral high ground is gone imo.
              Just because people themselves are hypocrites doesn't mean they can't point out the moral splinters of others.

              Asking for someone to show you a definitive source for something that went legal and was hurriedly swept under the rug is pretty much a cop out (in the Patriots defense).

              As someone who has observed, worked with, and even treated people who have used PED's, for example, I can ABSOLUTELY ASSURE you that more players in the NFL are using than MLB and the UFC combined. Virtually nothing gets mentioned, and you won't find articles with definitive proof of it. Occasionally, a small role player on some random team will get a 4 game slap for violating the policy, but that's it. No major story, no investigation, and it's certainly not made accessible to the public.

              Anything that makes the most marketable game look bad (like a dynasty forged from cheating) will be covered up, ignored, deflected, redirected, whatever, until people just stop talking about it. Same thing happens in politics. How often has Obama diverted the attention off of his own cronies, or tossed the blame on someone else (like the looming fiscal cliff, which is entirely on him - he's turned down 4 proposals because he wants us to go over so he can blame the GOP in Congress for "fighting" him).

              The NFL is going to continue to sweep things like this under the rug, or divert our attention. Very little of the real information will be made public. But every internet scrub who watches SportsCenter will think they know everything. The plebes believe, for whatever reason, that the reporters out there are devoted to giving the public information. That's not their job anymore. The people in power have agendas, and they trickle that down to the entities they have control over.

              Goodell tried to make a big, public stink out of the Saints, and it backfired. Virtually no new information surfaced, and the case has been all but thrown out. Conversely, everyone tried to claim the Patriots didn't gain an advantage from doing something that was strictly prohibited to prevent an advantage...yeah...and then no more questions were accepted on the subject. It was leaked just enough to make people watch; to generate a buzz, particularly about a cheater coach with a cheater QB (who cheated on and dumped his first baby-momma) in the hopes of seeing them lose. Shocker...they go unbeaten until the most dramatic Super Bowl of all-time.

              Hardly buy that it all just happened to play out that perfectly by chance.

              People who knew people all said the Patriots cheated. Most of the public didn't because they didn't see anything. That was intentional, however, as we were never going to see anything.

              P.S. The fact that McDaniels got busted in multiple locations should say enough...

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              • When the league seized a considerable amount of evidence from the Patriots related to spygate, and assessed loss of draft pick, it was a whitewash. Evidence of that is that the league said they destroyed the evidence after the penalty had been assessed.

                If the Patriots were guilty of going outside the rules of scouting, they should have forfeited a game instead. Otherwise, it makes no sense.
                "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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                • http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playof...ory?id=3227245

                  I did a quick google search and found this old article.

                  I realize a source is not exactly "conclusive", but it is still evidence the Patriots cheated. Knowing what plays a team will run is quite a sizeable advantage.
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                  Thank you to my grandfather jetrazor for being a veteran of the armed forces!

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                  • Originally posted by Al Wilson 4 Mayor View Post
                    http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playof...ory?id=3227245

                    I did a quick google search and found this old article.

                    I realize a source is not exactly "conclusive", but it is still evidence the Patriots cheated. Knowing what plays a team will run is quite a sizeable advantage.
                    this story was retracted

                    http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3395152

                    The intensity of the Patriots' spying controversy became more acute when the Boston Herald reported that the team had taped a walk-through of the St. Louis Rams before Super Bowl XXXVI. After the commissioner acknowledged that no such tape has come forward, the newspaper issued an apology on Tuesday night.

                    It reads: "On Feb. 2, 2008, the Boston Herald reported that a member of the New England Patriots' video staff taped the St. Louis Rams' walk-through on the day before Super Bowl XXXVI. While the Boston Herald based its Feb. 2, 2008, report on sources that it believed to be credible, we now know that this report was false, and that no tape of the walk-through ever existed.
                    "Prior to the publication of its Feb. 2, 2008, article, the Boston Herald neither possessed nor viewed a tape of the Rams' walk-through before Super Bowl XXXVI, nor did we speak to anyone who had. We should not have published the allegation in the absence of firmer verification.

                    "The Boston Herald regrets the damage done to the team by publication of the allegation, and sincerely apologizes to its readers and to the New England Patriots' owners, players, employees and fans for our error."

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                    • Originally posted by Doogansquest View Post
                      Just because people themselves are hypocrites doesn't mean they can't point out the moral splinters of others.

                      Asking for someone to show you a definitive source for something that went legal and was hurriedly swept under the rug is pretty much a cop out (in the Patriots defense).

                      As someone who has observed, worked with, and even treated people who have used PED's, for example, I can ABSOLUTELY ASSURE you that more players in the NFL are using than MLB and the UFC combined. Virtually nothing gets mentioned, and you won't find articles with definitive proof of it. Occasionally, a small role player on some random team will get a 4 game slap for violating the policy, but that's it. No major story, no investigation, and it's certainly not made accessible to the public.

                      Anything that makes the most marketable game look bad (like a dynasty forged from cheating) will be covered up, ignored, deflected, redirected, whatever, until people just stop talking about it. Same thing happens in politics. How often has Obama diverted the attention off of his own cronies, or tossed the blame on someone else (like the looming fiscal cliff, which is entirely on him - he's turned down 4 proposals because he wants us to go over so he can blame the GOP in Congress for "fighting" him).

                      The NFL is going to continue to sweep things like this under the rug, or divert our attention. Very little of the real information will be made public. But every internet scrub who watches SportsCenter will think they know everything. The plebes believe, for whatever reason, that the reporters out there are devoted to giving the public information. That's not their job anymore. The people in power have agendas, and they trickle that down to the entities they have control over.

                      Goodell tried to make a big, public stink out of the Saints, and it backfired. Virtually no new information surfaced, and the case has been all but thrown out. Conversely, everyone tried to claim the Patriots didn't gain an advantage from doing something that was strictly prohibited to prevent an advantage...yeah...and then no more questions were accepted on the subject. It was leaked just enough to make people watch; to generate a buzz, particularly about a cheater coach with a cheater QB (who cheated on and dumped his first baby-momma) in the hopes of seeing them lose. Shocker...they go unbeaten until the most dramatic Super Bowl of all-time.

                      Hardly buy that it all just happened to play out that perfectly by chance.

                      People who knew people all said the Patriots cheated. Most of the public didn't because they didn't see anything. That was intentional, however, as we were never going to see anything.

                      P.S. The fact that McDaniels got busted in multiple locations should say enough...
                      This is just a wandering mess of conspiritarding with no evidence or real point. It looks more like you're trying to create some convoluted narrative to fit a desired conclusion than coming to any kind of reasoned positon. No offense.

                      I don't think anyone denies the Pats broke the rules.

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                      • Whether or not the Pats gained a significant advantage from it we'll probably never know. I mean why do it if it doesn't help? But what really irked me about the whole thing is the way the NFL and Goodell tried to sweep it under the rug as fast as possible.

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                        • The Pats are getting schooled by Henne and theJags right now.

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                          • Originally posted by PATS16N0 View Post
                            Actually, it is very disputable and easily disputable because you're flat out incorrect.

                            The Patriots were fined for having an employee video-taping a Jets practice. Not for "cheating." It was a fine for a very specific thing at a very specific place at a very specific time. Camera. Jets. Practice.

                            Just because you like to call it "cheating" because you think that sounds harsh and because you think that discredits our Dynasty doesn't mean that is what they were fined for.

                            Goodell also acknowledged that this violation of league rules (note "violation of league rules," NOT "cheating") did NOT give the Patriots a competitive advantage.

                            So unless you want to hang your hat on conspiracy theories about NFL cover ups without a single shred of evidence to substantiate your allegations, your post is very disputable and your wording of what happened is flat out incorrect.

                            If you do want to hang your hat on conspiracy theories, then say you have a "conspiracy theory" about the Patriots and about an NFL cover up instead of saying "you cheated and that's indisputable."


                            Note #5 on this list.

                            How about this article, which was at top on the first page when I googled "patriots cheating".

                            Shall I go on?

                            You are entitled to your own opinion. But not your own facts.
                            sigpic

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                            • Originally posted by Hal9000 View Post
                              Thanks for the respect, and likewise. But I'd like to say that never in my posts have I mentioned anything about our past SB wins/losses and the losing team. Nor have I ever disrespected your team or any team for that matter. Sure there are tons of Pats fans that think this and that, but thats just like with any other fan base. I'm sure your fan base has bad apples that think your team is God-given. Its also like that with our fan base. Its part of the "collective problem" as you would want to call it.

                              I only brought up certain posts because some of your members started calling out the Pats past incident with spygate. As for as I know, that incident has no influence on our meeting in the future (assuming if we get past the wild card).

                              As for the Giants SB wins? They definitely deserved them. Their defense shut down and imposed their will on our offense in 07. Last year? Game was closer, but again the defensive line did its job to disrupt our passing game. Plus... sometimes you do get lucky; every team does. Sometimes "luck" is part of the equation in winning.
                              You're right in that the whole spygate thing has no effect on what goes on now. When our teams meet, I expect nothing less than a hard fought close game. Both teams are very good. The pats have an incredible offense without any defense, while the Broncos have a very good offense, and a very good defense. Very different teams.

                              My problem is when trolls like like pats16n0 start trash talking my team, on OUR boards.
                              sigpic

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                              • Originally posted by Cutler79 View Post
                                Actually there's no evidence of this whatsoever let alone "conclusive" evidence. If you can show me a source for this claim I'll change my tune but if we're just going to start making stuff up we're really no better than them and the moral high ground is gone imo.
                                As I recall I do not think any hard evidence was presented. But also (if I am recalling coreectly), the report came from an inside source and was corroborated by others. Although I do not believe the entire incident amounted to much.
                                sigpic

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