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Interesting Situation - Moreno Plays Solid And McGahee Healthy For AFC Championship

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  • #76
    Originally posted by Doogansquest View Post
    A lot of good points, but you completely left out McGahee's desire to end a run with the ball in the opponents' hands instead of his own.
    I think the only desire Willis is guilty of is the desire to play as well as he can for his team.


    • #77
      Originally posted by tacmale View Post
      The truth is Moreno has shown up for the last few games after being conspicuously absent for most of his career. The question is still out there, can he do it for a whole season not just a few games. Until he shows that he can I am not ready to crown him our back of the future.
      Who cares? We're going off of what he has done, and what he's done these last four weeks have been nkthing short of excellent. In the four games Moreno has started, not RB in the NFL not named Adrian Peterson has more yards. That's fantastic. That's as good as anyone could every dream of a RB playing. He is vastly outplaying McGahee. That is not fuzzy math, that is fact. Per start, Moreno is doing everything better than McGahee had this year.

      He has improved most notably in the area I mentioned before,(which you chose to ignore my post in a previous thread about Moreno) he no longer just burst to the line to get stopped before his blocking develops.
      Chose to ignore what? You saying he improved? What does that matter? I never disputed that. I'm not going to reply to things I agree with, doesn't make for much of a debate.

      He is now showing better patience and letting his holes open up and his blocking develop for him, he is finally learning how to hang onto the ball. Yay great for him 3 years into the league he is finally learning how to be a running back in the NFL.
      Sure, he's improved, but finally learning how to play RB? Lol what. He had a very good rookie year. The only thing he has ever had against him is injuries. When healthy, he has always produced at an abpve average level.

      Don't get me wrong I hope he becomes a better back than TD was for the Bronco's(of course that won't happen), the better he gets the better it is for the team.

      Just to add 9 QB's have more fumbles than McGahee 3 of them being pro bowl caliber QB's. Of the running backs in the league Chris Johnson has 4 so far as does Fred Jackson both tied with Willis.
      QBs don't count. QBs will always lead the league in fumbes. I'm not comparing McGahee and Knowshon's abilities to hold the ball to Peyton Manning's, nor should you, kinda pointless to bring that up. Willis has 5 fumbles, which at the time of his injury was the most of any RB in the NFL. Why are you comparing his fumble total now that he has not played a down in a month? Lol. He fumbled once every 33 carries. Knowshon, for example has one fumble this year at over 100 carries.


      • #78
        Originally posted by one_bad_55 View Post
        Papa, You are pretty funny and making some pretty big claims. As I have stated in many other threads I will believe Moreno can be the starter once he has played against a team that can actually stop the run. His stats so far are good but they have come against teams that are not good at stopping the run.
        Tampa bay is the best rush D in the NFL in terms of total yards and YPC. So, uh, yeah he has played a team that cam stop the run. He is one of 3 RBs to surpass 60 yards against that defense, Morris and Adrian Peterson being the others.

        The Bucs have been the best team he has faced and he gained 69 yards rushing. Unfortunately the next two games are not going to be much of an example either because neither Cleveland or KC have good rushing defenses ranked 19th and 27th respectively. Almost all of his yards have come against teams that are in the bottom half of the bottom half of the league.
        Lol. Should we just eliminate everything that anyone does against poor teams? Are the Broncos a bad team because we've only beaten bad teams? Horrible, horrivle argument. It doesn't matter who we've played, Moreno has produced at a rate second only to AP since he took over as starter.

        And for accuracy's sake, Baltimore is a top 10 rush defense in terms of YPC, so two of the 4 teams Moreno has ran against have been top 10.

        The reason he got benched was against Pit he ran the ball 5 times for 13 yards and against the Falcons he rushed 3 times for 2 yards. He got benched after the Falcons game.
        Who cares? Why does that matter?

        The question will be can he stay healthy, and can he produce against a good run defense.
        Tampa and Baltimore, already has.

        McGahee still averages more yards per carry than Moreno this year. He is also more explosive and has longer runs than Moreno, He averages about the same number of carries per game as Moreno. Moreno had one game with 32 carries the rest have been around 20 per game which is about where McGahee is at.
        Barely more YPC in his starts. 4.2 vs 4.4 YPC. Moreno is way more explosive. Long runs are 90% on the OL. McGahee has 3 games where he carries the ball over 20 times. Moreno has done that 4 straight weeks. McGahee averaged 16 carries a game, Moreno is averaging almost 25.

        You can think that Moreno has out performed McGahee but he really hasn't. Does that mean that Moreno is not a good back? No but they are about the same except McGahee is more explosive and has broken off longer runs than Moreno. There is no way they will just dump McGahee just because you have our Moreno blinders on.
        Moreno has! That is a fact, what do you not understand about that? In Moreno's four starts, only Adrian Peterson has produced more. These four starts are much better than any consecutive four McGahee has strung together this year. Moreno is out performing, out producing, and out playing McGahee.

        McGahee is more explosive? No. Not at all. Moreno has not started a single game this year withhout at least one run of at least 16 yards. 7 of the 10 games McGahee started this year he did not break a run that long. McGahee has started games this year where his longest run all game was 9 yards.

        You are the one with blinders on, because when you have a 25 year old RB producing the best numbers in the AFC since he began starting, you no longer need the 32 year old RB that has blown out his knees twice.


        • #79
          I really wish WM was healthy and ready for the playoffs. It's a no brainer if he is healthy. A much better back than KM, especially up the middle. Don't get me wrong, KM has been awesome the past few games against so-so teams, but if you think he is a better back than WM, go back to your Madden.

          I know you all (and me, too) cringe every time KM has the ball...waiting for the next fumble. Glad he hasn't, but I still pucker up every time he touches the ball.

          If we have to go with him in the playoffs, so be it...


          • #80
            IMO, the only noticeable advantage McGahee has over Moreno is long speed. I'd rather have Moreno carrying the bulk of the load. He's a better receiver, blocks just as well, and is just as good between the tackles. He also seems to have better endurance.
            Thank you to my grandfather jetrazor for being a veteran of the armed forces!


            • #81
              Papa, You are doing it again making the stats fit your argument.

              Lets start with your opposing defense comments. Of course this matters because running against a poor defense is much easier than running against a good defense. Why is Tampa the number 1 rank running defense? Because they are what last against the pass and everyone throws the ball against them and Baltimore is so beat up that their best run stopping defensive players didn't even play.

              Next, can he stay healthy? You say he has but he has only played 4 games. I want to see him healthy for an extended time maybe even a whole season which he hasn't been able to do since his rookie year.

              Next McGahee VS Moreno. Barely is still better than Moreno. McGahee has had more explosive runs than Moreno that gain more yards. Longer runs equal more explosive. Do you seriously think once a RB gets past the LB that the OL is to blame for blocking down field? There are times when they pull or jump to the second level but they are usually asked to block the LB's. When a RB has an explosive play they are usually past the LB and now on to the secondary.

              Now for the carries. Why do you think Moreno is carrying the ball more? Maybe because we were playing with a lead and not throwing but running the ball? Or maybe the fact that Coach Fox said 3 weeks ago that we are going to work on our running game and run the ball more? Could these be the reasons why Moreno is carrying the ball a little bit more? Some of McGahee's games we were behind and completely abandoned the run game to try and catch up. Not one of Morenos games were we playing from behind.

              Moreno playing better than McGahee is Fact? You are comparing a 4 game stretch against some of the leagues worst defenses against an 11 game stretch in which the teams we played earlier in the year are tops in the NFL? If Moreno was out producing & outplaying McGahee his average YPC would be larger and they are not so he is not out producing McGahee.

              Your argument about Moreno having more longer runs is probably not a good stat to quote as this also means he has more shorter runs or his average would be higher than McGahee. See how you can make the stats sound good and not sound so good.

              The only thing Moreno has done better is hold onto the ball better. That is something he should be proud of because he is also known to put the ball on the ground.

              Moreno is an important piece to this team but I have not seen that he is the clear starter like you are seeing. I think that McGahee and Moreno make a pretty darn potent backfield but I am not ready to claim Moreno is now the clear future for the Broncos.
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