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How Would we Cover Gronk AND Hernandez?

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  • samparnell
    replied
    Right. If you wanted to assign one guy to Welker, Carter is the best choice. Regardless of personnel package, each defensive position has a name. The call tells everyone what to do. Quick lineup/snap also takes away the possibility of O reading the D before the snap. I'm sure Brady gets info in his ear during the huddle as to who is on the field, but those guys can line up a number of different ways.

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  • #24 Next Champ
    replied
    Originally posted by samparnell View Post
    If I'm not mistaken, Wade Phillips stayed in man coverage when the Texans visited New England. Lloyd and Hernandez combined for fifteen receptions. IDK if that's a good idea. Cover 0 might be worse. Staying in the same coverage against Brady may be ill-advised.

    NE's favorite routes are between the numbers. I'm sure that issue will be addressed. Cover 2 is straight zone. Tampa 2 is actually a combo. Cover 2 Robber tricks the QB into thinking MOFO. At least one of Peyton's picks at Atlanta was off of Cover 2 Robber.

    In the divisional round seven years ago, Champ Bailey picked Tom Brady in the EZ and returned it 100 yards. That pick, and John Lynch's, were the result of switching coverages, if I'm not mistaken. Brady will have pressure. Inverts, rotations and combos will give him even more to think about.
    1) The Texans do not have nearly as good of CB's or pass rush, nor as good cover LB's..so they get chewed up by anyone in man, we have given EVERY QB fits in man coverage this year (but yes obviously you have to mix it up

    2) it was actually Champ and DWill switching coverages, cuz they had run that same combo a few times so Champ told em if they cross again, just switch off...jus thought we should be exact

    But I would entertain the idea of Carter on Welker, I just don't know if Carter is physical enough for anyone other than Lloyd, n I believe he could take him out by himself on the outside

    And to the person who claimed you can't matchup because of substitutions and the hurry up...you discuss those things and go over all that, really not that big of a deal as you just match up who u can where you can even if it's a zone so you're not giving your coverage away

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  • samparnell
    replied
    If I'm not mistaken, Wade Phillips stayed in man coverage when the Texans visited New England. Lloyd and Hernandez combined for fifteen receptions. IDK if that's a good idea. Cover 0 might be worse. Staying in the same coverage against Brady may be ill-advised.

    NE's favorite routes are between the numbers. I'm sure that issue will be addressed. Cover 2 is straight zone. Tampa 2 is actually a combo. Cover 2 Robber tricks the QB into thinking MOFO. At least one of Peyton's picks at Atlanta was off of Cover 2 Robber.

    In the divisional round seven years ago, Champ Bailey picked Tom Brady in the EZ and returned it 100 yards. That pick, and John Lynch's, were the result of switching coverages, if I'm not mistaken. Brady will have pressure. Inverts, rotations and combos will give him even more to think about.
    Last edited by samparnell; 01-01-2013, 10:27 AM.

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  • Doogansquest
    replied
    I don't understand why people say, "stick Champ on [x], Woodyard on [y]..."

    That's fine, in theory, but Brady and Belichick have just as much to say about that as the Broncos do. All it takes is one substitution, one injury, one package to draw out a different coverage team, and suddenly the Patriots can jump into hurry-up mode. Once that happens, Brady will never allow Denver to get lined up the way they want to. At least not until the following drive.

    No matter who is out there, they have a job to do to ensure the front group gets to Brady. Naming specific players means nothing; talent-level is arbitrary at this level of play. It comes down to coaching and discipline. Every guy has to do their job. You don't leave players on islands - every guy fits within the scheme and has to take care of their assignment in the context of that scheme.

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  • CoryWinget81
    replied
    Man coverage, 2 shell, jam the everloving stew out of the WRS coming off the line and force them to start using WR shifts to spring a man open. Rush 4, don't play zone, don't blitz DBs. Do anything you can to get pressure up the middle. Offense score TDs.

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  • ERoyal248
    replied
    Originally posted by Denver Mike View Post

    1- Who do they have physically capable of slowing, or catching much less cover Demaryius Thomas?

    2- Bradys darn well aware of what Doom can do, who will they double up on? Him or Von?

    3- NE has one of the slowest ST teams in the league. How are they gonna catch my boy Trindon??

    4- What happend the last time Brady showed his mug in Denver (post-season)

    5- Name any ONE player on the Patriots roster who wants this Superbowl more than Champ Bailey
    1- Talib

    2- Their T's are pretty good, the key is getting pressure up the middle.

    3- I wouldn't play Holliday vs NE with his fumble woes. Yes, he can take it to the house any time, but he can also fumble and give NE a short field.

    4- Both teams are much different.

    5- Their QB, maybe not as more but he wants another SB badly.

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  • qbronco
    replied
    The Pats struggle most against teams with a good pass rush up the middle. Brady gets rattled, like most QBs, when he cannot set his feet and gets hit early in games. I think the dump off passes to his TEs are okay as long as they are for minimal yardage. He's a rhythm quarterback and gets frustrated when he doesn't complete a lot of passes in a row. Pressure is the key, everything behind it benefits when it is applied.

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  • ManningForLife
    replied
    Originally posted by Double_L View Post
    Considering, of course, Denver and NE both make it to the AFC Championship Game. Everyone knows the weakness of the Broncos D is covering TE's, how will they cover both guys? Will Del Rio come up with a game plan that figures out a riddle he has never been able to solve?

    I can see this as the difference in winning and losing the game.
    Common factor to beat NE is to disrupt Brady from the middle of the pocket. Giants have done it very successfully. Just the side pass rush wont cut it. He will slide in the middle. You disrupt him, we majorly need not worry about other factors.

    I would focus really on

    1.screen passes and ( Danny woodhead to me is the x factor, he burned us and other teams on key conversions )
    2. stretch runs to the corner ( all RBs )

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  • samparnell
    replied
    Against any team there are five eligible receivers. Coverage will not be 100% Cover 1/0; it must include zone and combo.

    The only thing the Pats do on O which requires some in depth scouting and analysis is the quick line up/quick snap after a huddle. Need to know what formations and what favorite plays to expect and have an appropriate personnel package.

    The Pats run their no huddle pretty much the same as Denver, using the play clock to make adjustments and change routes and plays. I don't see that as big a problem as the quick stuff which cuts down on the time for D to read their keys.

    In Cover 1/0, the Broncos should not allow NE's receivers a clean release to MOF. Some of this can be inhibited also by alternating coverages including inverts. Since the Pats favorite routes are MOF, one way to inhibit that tendency is to show MOF open, but close it with Cover 2 Robber/Tampa 2, for example.

    NE's O has probably run more plays than any other offense this year. It's part of their ball control and percentage approach. The altitude will challenge conditioning, especially on the big players. Defending Denver's no huddle will put a strain on the stamina of NE's front seven.

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  • martz11
    replied
    Tired of all the Pats talk. Gotta win our first game. Jeez

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  • BroncosIsWin
    replied
    I don't think we or any other team in the NFL has an answer to this yet. I think if it came down to a NE vs Den game in the playoffs, it would be more of a shoot out then anything else. We'll have to wait and see if NE or Den even get that far. I'm more nervous about the Broncos now than I have been in a while. I would rather be somewhat of an underdog going in the playoffs.

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  • kingshmegland
    replied
    Stopping Woodhead will be a key if all of or receivers are healthy. Brady loves check downs and Woodhead can get great yardage when teams only rush 4.

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  • gaberox
    replied
    Originally posted by EddieMac View Post
    I recall that the 9ers put in a real heavy d line and they hammered Brady for a while. Maybe we Should consider that. Have ayers, Wolfe at the ends and big Vic + bannan in the middle. We lose the speed but the pocket wouldn't stand a chance.
    I dunno if that dline compares to the Niners dline with Justin Smith in the first half of that game. They absolutely were crushing the pats till J.Smith was injured. Thats why the pats are our matchup nightmare. We are fast and athletic but lack the power the Niners have. I like the idea of Carter on Welker better than Harris. I think Harris is better to put on Loyd. Welker just takes harris to school underneath but sticky man is better built to deal with Welker I think. Not only that but the Niners have hammers at safety and we dont. They nailed Hernandez over the middle one play then the next play the Pats threw a little screen to Hernandez and he flinched as the ball was coming in and it popped into the air for an int. Now thats intimidating defense.
    Last edited by gaberox; 01-01-2013, 02:12 AM.

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  • Doogansquest
    replied
    A lot of good points here. The simplest solution isn't about covering Gronkowski and Hernandez. You can't cover both guys. Even bracket coverage on Gronk just means Brady throws it above one defender and beneath another. Gronk's big enough that he'll reach up and snag it.

    It's all about getting to Brady. He's not like Brees or Manning: he doesn't "throw guys open." He needs the play call to be perfectly set up to free one guy. Notice he always throws to someone who is miraculously wide open. The best bet is to disguise coverages and blitzes. Be an amoeba at the line. Make him play after the snap, because he usually hesitates in that moment, and that's when he makes mistakes.

    +Be physical with the receivers at the line to buy the front 4 an extra half second to get to Brady. His throws will be a little late, and/or he'll have to move out of the pocket. He's terrible out of the pocket.

    +Once the previous point takes effect, he'll start packaging his TE's at the line to get some chip blocks and set up some screens. This is fine, because the routes will take longer to develop and buy the rushers even more time. Denver's corners and LB's can make up the ground quickly.

    +If the Patriots start running out of the shotgun early, the Broncos whole defensive plan could be in trouble, because they will stack the box and leave a lot of 1-on-1 mismatches. Brady is no Peyton Manning, but he is excellent at calling plays that create mismatches.

    The Patriots match up is all about getting Brady off his marks, moving around, and hesitating. It's not about covering the skill positions. Their defense will give up big plays, so it's not like Denver won't score points.
    Last edited by Doogansquest; 01-01-2013, 02:10 AM.

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  • EddieMac
    replied
    I recall that the 9ers put in a real heavy d line and they hammered Brady for a while. Maybe we Should consider that. Have ayers, Wolfe at the ends and big Vic + bannan in the middle. We lose the speed but the pocket wouldn't stand a chance.

    Leave a comment:

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