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If John Elway was the QB last yr

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  • If John Elway was the QB last yr

    I dont think we would have kneeled down with 30 seconds and 2 time out remaining AND even before that prior to the Jones TD, i also believe he would have gotten a 1st down and iced the game.

    Not a shot at Manning but I think Elway would have done something with his legs. I also wonder with DT, Decker and Welker to Elway's disposal how the game would have been.

  • #2
    I am inclined to agree that he wouldn't have taken a knee. However, although we will always hold Elway in high esteem, we mustn't forget that he didn't ALWAYS get it done

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    • #3
      I think its real hard and unfair to compare quarterbacks of differen era's and diferent teams.

      So....lets compare anyway (last two superbowl runs Elway vs Manning last year)
      Elway regular season1997 att=502 comp=280 55.8% 3635 yards
      Elway regular season1998 att=356 comp=210 59% 2806 yards (and to be fair they gave bubby brister 980 yards that year too)

      Manning reg season 2012 att=583 comp=400 68.6% 4659 yards


      Of course this is an unfair comparison. There was a lot of the help from TD and other people to get us to the superbowl(s). I think Elway would have had to go with what his coach said too to take a knee or do what they thought at the time was necessary.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by johntbronco View Post
        I think its real hard and unfair to compare quarterbacks of differen era's and diferent teams.

        So....lets compare anyway (last two superbowl runs Elway vs Manning last year)
        Elway regular season1997 att=502 comp=280 55.8% 3635 yards
        Elway regular season1998 att=356 comp=210 59% 2806 yards (and to be fair they gave bubby brister 980 yards that year too)

        Manning reg season 2012 att=583 comp=400 68.6% 4659 yards


        Of course this is an unfair comparison. There was a lot of the help from TD and other people to get us to the superbowl(s). I think Elway would have had to go with what his coach said too to take a knee or do what they thought at the time was necessary.
        I hear you,

        I somehow feel, if we had Elway last year against Ravens the result would have been different.

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        • #5
          If A happens differently, B and C would still have happened never goes the same way in hindsight, the Butterfly effect, ever heard of it?

          If you go for a pass and have an incompletion, you just gave the Ravens another 35-40 seconds. So, the Ravens, instead of 30 seconds and 70 yards to go have about a minute plus to go and 70 yards to go.

          Peyton did not lose the game in regulation, he did help decide it the wrong way in OT. The D that tightened up in OT, if it had played that way in regulation, we wouldn't be talking about it.

          I have seen Ravens, Steelers, Jets teams have their O give up a turnover but their D steps up and does not make the O pay for it by getting the ball back with little to no damage. None of that happened with the Broncos' D, they could have limited the Ravens to FGs but they did not. Hey, it even happened in this Broncos game. After the Ravens' fumble, Broncos' O did not score any points and the Ravens stopped them when it counts. Did they sit around and give up a TD? No, they didn't.

          Broncos' D is flat out not good at generating turnovers. They generated a lot of sacks in the regular season but unless they have some turnovers and key punts/stops to go with it this year in the playoffs, they will come up short against good QBs again, IMO. Even when the Giants' D did not generate turnovers vs Brady, what they did was key deflections on 3rd downs with JPP that resulted in FGs that kept Eli within striking distance to win SB 46. But when one can complete long deep passes comfortably, forget chances for deflections with a higher trajectory on the ball .

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          • #6
            Disagree. I don't really know John to defy the coach like that. It wasn't Mannings decision to kneel the ball, it was the head coaches

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            • #7
              Originally posted by ManningForLife View Post
              I dont think we would have kneeled down with 30 seconds and 2 time out remaining AND even before that prior to the Jones TD, i also believe he would have gotten a 1st down and iced the game.

              Not a shot at Manning but I think Elway would have done something with his legs. I also wonder with DT, Decker and Welker to Elway's disposal how the game would have been.
              I think Elway played for a coach that would have gone for it. Actually, I am sure he did. Like I put in another thread, Elway said one of the qualities he most admired about Shanny was that he was not afraid to put the game on the offense and be aggressive to get a first down at the end of a game rather than punt. Manning could have got the first down. It wasn't manning, it was fox.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Matymaddog View Post
                Disagree. I don't really know John to defy the coach like that. It wasn't Mannings decision to kneel the ball, it was the head coaches
                Exactly. Elway actually has said he did NOT defy his coaches. He gave a whole story about the SB against GB where he talked about how he did not agree with the play that Shanny called where he did the helicopter spin move. I will have to find it. Still, he says he ran it. The point was, he made it clear that he followed Shanny's plans.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Matymaddog View Post
                  Disagree. I don't really know John to defy the coach like that. It wasn't Mannings decision to kneel the ball, it was the head coaches
                  Point is not Elway defying coaches. Point is whether coaches would have made a different decision if Elway was the QB?.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ManningForLife View Post
                    Point is not Elway defying coaches. Point is whether coaches would have made a different decision if Elway was the QB?.
                    Doubt it. Unless John Fox had Elway the year prior I just don't see it happening. Fox admitted himself it was a mistake. I think it really comes down to old habits dying hard and when the majority of your coaching career involves Jake Delhomme at quarterback, it's easy to fall back into those old habits in your first year with a future hall of famer. I believe John Fox won't make those kind of calls this year. I don't think it has anything to do with how good Elway or Manning were or maybe how long Elway would have played in Denver. I think it comes down to the coaches history with that player as an individual and history with highly effective quarterbacks. You have to understand, Jake Delhomme was an absolute gun slinger and not exactly a good one. He was a better leader than quarterback. John Fox's style was good to limit his mistakes but even then the guy would throw 5 interceptions in some games.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Matymaddog View Post
                      Doubt it. Unless John Fox had Elway the year prior I just don't see it happening. Fox admitted himself it was a mistake. I think it really comes down to old habits dying hard and when the majority of your coaching career involves Jake Delhomme at quarterback, it's easy to fall back into those old habits in your first year with a future hall of famer. I believe John Fox won't make those kind of calls this year. I don't think it has anything to do with how good Elway or Manning were or maybe how long Elway would have played in Denver. I think it comes down to the coaches history with that player as an individual and history with highly effective quarterbacks. You have to understand, Jake Delhomme was an absolute gun slinger and not exactly a good one. He was a better leader than quarterback. John Fox's style was good to limit his mistakes but even then the guy would throw 5 interceptions in some games.
                      Just hope you are right about Fox not being Fox this year. I have been pretty vocal about that.

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                      • #12
                        I saw an interview or two with him where he cited kneeling the ball both times as an absolute mistake on his part considering he had Manning and he said he would not make that mistake again next year.

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                        • #13
                          We would have went undefeated and won the Super Bowl....... By 80

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                          • #14
                            If Mike Shanahan was the coach last year... The decision to kneel down came from the coach even though he had Manning at his disposal. Manning is a better QB than Elway. Elway won back-to-back SBs without having one single game with 3 TDs in the playoffs. In those 7 playoff games, he had one game with 2 TD passes, 4 games with 1 TD pass and two games without a TD pass. A RB like Terrell Davis also would have helped Manning. Elway won his first SB completing 12 passes with 1 interception. Davis ran for 157 yards and 3 TDs. Manning threw 3 TD passes against the Ravens, and the pick six was a pass interference. What he did should have been enough to win the game in 4 quarters. The secondary screwed up multiple times and Fox decided to kneel down.
                            sigpic

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                            • #15
                              The Chiefs game in the regular season, it was 3rd and 7 near the end of the 4th, and if the Broncos picked up the first down they pretty much sealed the game.

                              Manning completed a pass to DT to seal it there and then in a close one.

                              Should have done the same against Baltimore in the playoffs when they faced a 3rd and 8 needing the first down to win, but didn't. I'm about as over it as I'll get, though.
                              Last edited by Bootleg; 05-24-2013, 10:17 AM.

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